A Call for Reason



  • MOD WARNING – READ FIRST
    @b3h47pte:

    I’m pre-emptively warning anyone who attempts to turn this thread into a bashing thread or tries to incite any sort of unconstructive argument here will be given a temp ban.

    Please keep this as civil as possible. Before you hit the “Submit” button, take a few moments to read over your post and if you feel like it’s questionable, rewrite it to be as nice as possible. Although I can’t control any of the hate outside of the forums, any attempt to bring it here will be met with a nice, loving ban hammer.

    Let me start by acknowledging the inherent futility of this post. The competitive scene seems to have collectively decided that Faucheur is the enemy, and I highly doubt that anything I could say could possibly change that. But I’d still like to express my thoughts, if only for the chance to show you all another side of this ugly story.

    To understand where I’m coming from, I’d like to give you a bit of history on my time with this game. I was introduced to it by a friend and immediately fell in love: Chivalry was unlike anything I had played before, and it was wonderful. The community was great from what I could tell, with the noobs having fun and the vets not afraid to share their knowledge. I remember one night, around two or three in the morning, when I found myself alone in a server with KiLA’s Retsnom. Despite the late hour and my low rank, he agreed to teach me when I asked for help. I don’t remember what exactly I learned, but at the end of the night he invited me to stop by the Thunderdome when I had improved my skills and signed off wishing me the best of luck. I decided then that I wanted to enter the competitive scene: it was a brilliant introduction to high-level play, and I admired the skill and charitableness of the competitive players.

    Some time later, one of my good friends I had been playing with was accepted into Vq, and at his urging I tried out for and made it into the Clover clan. I began to make friends with the other members, most notably Dofoo, Root King, and Sin, so when Faucheur was created I naturally followed the people I knew. I was sadly absent for the clan’s initial scrims due to my lack of a mic, but once I got one and began to join the Teamspeak server I saw how much fun competitive play really could be. Although I scrim less now, I still have formed many friendships both inside and outside my clan.

    Which finally brings me to my main point: I feel that this unanimous hatred against Faucheur is beginning to go a bit too far. Pressure has been building against Faucheur for a long time, and I believe that this tournament was the perfect catalyst to release the anger. Look, I’m not dumb. I completely understand the viewpoint of the opposition, and I know how much I would hate to lose to someone I thought was hacking, or to a team I thought was ghosting. I can understand why I would drop my team out of a tournament and refuse to ever scrim them again.

    But I can’t shake the feeling that we’re losing sight of the bigger picture here, and that is the fact that we are all players of the game. I’m not here for drama, or clan politics, or petty arguments. I’m here to play skilled opponents, better myself, and, most importantly, have fun. And the way things are now, the majority of the competitive scene seems to be conspiring to sap that enjoyment for anyone in Faucheur.

    Allow me to provide a brief example of what I mean. I was playing today on what’s been my favorite server since I was level 30: Interitus duels. I don’t need to describe it, but I can say I’ve had more fun, met more friends, and improved much more than any other server I’ve been on in Chivalry. I had heard rumors of Faucheur members being banned from Interitus servers since the tournament, but saw no reason to worry, since I wasn’t causing any problems and considered myself friends with a number of Interitus members. But as soon as an Interitus member joined the server, myself and another clan member were both instantly banned. I found out soon after the all members of Interitus were under orders to purify their servers from Faucheur scum, and when I asked for further explanation I was told something along the lines of, “It’s our server, we can do whatever we want with it.”

    Fine. I can’t argue with that. Your clan, your server, your rules. Like I said before, though, this bullying has perhaps gone a bit too far. I was recently introduced to the wonderful steam group “Boycott faucher 2013,” composed of a number of people that I considered allies and friends, and I was left asking myself what the point of it was. Yeah, Faucheur is hated. But why indiscriminately target all of its members? Why try to bring the clan down instead of giving us a chance to reform? I’m not saying it’ll be easy or even possible to drag our name out of the mud, and I can’t claim to speak for the clan here, but I know that I love this game, and my fellow members love this game, just as much as you all do. Do what you will, and treat us however you see fit. I just hope you can realize that we’re not trying to be evil or make enemies. We’re only trying to play this game we love.



  • +1



  • I think it is unfair of the community to blanket hate everyone associated with F. I’m personally friends with kitten, dan, and have good acquaintances with Master and steve. With that being said if there are jerks or hackers in your clan the responsibility of dealing with those guys and cleaning up your clan relies solely on its members.

    One of the things that I believe a lot of people were irritated by was your clan’s complete loyalty to who many believed to be a hacker. By implementing the <3 bigs into their names during the tournament it came off like your clan was aiding and abetting someone they felt had been proven to have hacked in this game and definitely had hacked in other communities before.

    The road to recovery may not be fair to Faucheur but if the community is ever going to respect you again I think they need you to admit you have a problem and strive to fix it.

    This is only my perception of things based on my limited time on these forums in the competitive area.



  • I’m pre-emptively warning anyone who attempts to turn this thread into a bashing thread or tries to incite any sort of unconstructive argument here will be given a temp ban.

    Please keep this as civil as possible. Before you hit the “Submit” button, take a few moments to read over your post and if you feel like it’s questionable, rewrite it to be as nice as possible. Although I can’t control any of the hate outside of the forums, any attempt to bring it here will be met with a nice, loving ban hammer.



  • @Master:

    Allow me to provide a brief example of what I mean. I was playing today on what’s been my favorite server since I was level 30: Interitus duels. I don’t need to describe it, but I can say I’ve had more fun, met more friends, and improved much more than any other server I’ve been on in Chivalry. I had heard rumors of Faucheur members being banned from Interitus servers since the tournament, but saw no reason to worry, since I wasn’t causing any problems and considered myself friends with a number of Interitus members. But as soon as an Interitus member joined the server, myself and another clan member were both instantly banned. I found out soon after the all members of Interitus were under orders to purify their servers from Faucheur scum, and when I asked for further explanation I was told something along the lines of, “It’s our server, we can do whatever we want with it.”

    I love playing with Int players, well-mannered, experienced and give a great challenge. I usually play on Int duels to perfect my play style, also a great place to experiment(classic duels will always be my favorite). They even host “fight nights” which I think is awesome and more clans should follow suit. Gives clans an opportunity to show that everyone in a clan isn’t a try hard dick. Which I think is a misconception because of a lot of the people that hate on clans. After I was ejected from the tournament because of my violation, I was pretty upset because I try and play the game true, no bullshit and one mix-up has made me look like an enemy. The day after, I joined the Int Fight Night server got one kill in, saw an Int member log in and I was banned. I understand with all the “drama” going on(and that it’s their server)I see why they would ban me. But as masterguy said, we are people too, I personally have friends in int also. I’ve never wronged them and neither have they wronged me. Even though I see where they are coming from, It’s still a shock clans and players are going to this much of an extreme to extort a clans reputation. It seems people care more about bashing players than bashing some heads.



  • I get that people are upset with f, but shouldn’t a line be drawn somewhere. Chivalry is a great game and we should all be collectively working to try and improve the community, but recently we have only been destroying it. The competitive scene is small enough as it is, and is only shrinking, don’t speed up the decay by boycotting f. Find a different solution.



  • @Sidewinder:

    I think it is unfair of the community to blanket hate everyone associated with F.

    ok but um

    @Sidewinder:

    Dude wtf is up with F?

    @Sidewinder:

    Glad that F’s antics haven’t completely destroyed this scene.

    so I’m calling you on it.

    Seems like Faucheur got the raw end of the stick due to a misunderstanding. Don’t worry it will all blow over soon, nobody really cares.



  • I was commenting on the situation as it was unfolding and with what “evidence” was being provided by certain community members just like everyone else, including you. Now with everything out in the open I think there are still people here that are making broad generalizations when it comes to F. Like I already said though, ultimately the only way that F can get rid of the stigma is by doing some housecleaning and dealing with the bad apples that are giving them a bad name.



  • This whole thing is stupid. It’s a freaking game. Grow up, stop whining, and be nice to one another. All this drama isn’t necessary and only detracts from the community.

    (Also, hit me up if you want to scrim KILA. ;) We have scrimmed KoC, Di, Team Reflex, and IA recently and it has truly been a lot of fun. We are improving at a remarkable rate with all the scrimming, and having fun doing it. And remember, that is what this game is all about: Fun. Not flame wars, not cursing, not boycotting clans, but FUN.)

    Best,

    Legolas



  • @gregcau:

    @Sidewinder:

    I think it is unfair of the community to blanket hate everyone associated with F.

    ok but um

    @Sidewinder:

    Dude wtf is up with F?

    @Sidewinder:

    Glad that F’s antics haven’t completely destroyed this scene.

    so I’m calling you on it.

    Seems like Faucheur got the raw end of the stick due to a misunderstanding. Don’t worry it will all blow over soon, nobody really cares.

    I think i love you greg.

    @RangerD:

    @Master:

    Allow me to provide a brief example of what I mean. I was playing today on what’s been my favorite server since I was level 30: Interitus duels. I don’t need to describe it, but I can say I’ve had more fun, met more friends, and improved much more than any other server I’ve been on in Chivalry. I had heard rumors of Faucheur members being banned from Interitus servers since the tournament, but saw no reason to worry, since I wasn’t causing any problems and considered myself friends with a number of Interitus members. But as soon as an Interitus member joined the server, myself and another clan member were both instantly banned. I found out soon after the all members of Interitus were under orders to purify their servers from Faucheur scum, and when I asked for further explanation I was told something along the lines of, “It’s our server, we can do whatever we want with it.”

    I love playing with Int players, well-mannered, experienced and give a great challenge. I usually play on Int duels to perfect my play style, also a great place to experiment(classic duels will always be my favorite). They even host “fight nights” which I think is awesome and more clans should follow suit. Gives clans an opportunity to show that everyone in a clan isn’t a try hard dick. Which I think is a misconception because of a lot of the people that hate on clans. After I was ejected from the tournament because of my violation, I was pretty upset because I try and play the game true, no bullshit and one mix-up has made me look like an enemy. The day after, I joined the Int Fight Night server got one kill in, saw an Int member log in and I was banned. I understand with all the “drama” going on(and that it’s their server)I see why they would ban me. But as masterguy said, we are people too, I personally have friends in int also. I’ve never wronged them and neither have they wronged me. Even though I see where they are coming from, It’s still a shock clans and players are going to this much of an extreme to extort a clans reputation. It seems people care more about bashing players than bashing some heads.

    +1, I’d be sad if i can’t scrim interitus or Lg again just cause of all this drama. I don’t think i’d ever leave Faucheur, because they are a bunch of awesome like-minded guys, but it would truly be sad if all the clans can’t just hold hands and be friends. Kum Ba Yah? :/



  • @Sidewinder:

    I was commenting on the situation as it was unfolding and with what “evidence” was being provided by certain community members just like everyone else, including you. Now with everything out in the open I think there are still people here that are making broad generalizations when it comes to F. Like I already said though, ultimately the only way that F can get rid of the stigma is by doing some housecleaning and dealing with the bad apples that are giving them a bad name.

    Get to know us first, then you’ll come to realize that there were never any bad apples.



  • Like how I responded to Greg’s out of context quote pulls, I was responding to the “evidence” provided that showed a member of your clan claiming to hack someone’s steam account. It later turned out that it was all high school antics of fabricated posts, but at the time, myself and even Greg thought it was overboard.

    I’ve already stated that I do know a few of your clanmates some are even on my friend’s list. I have witnessed very hostile and condescending posts by certain members here on the forum and would hope you guys would want to clean that up as it isn’t conducive to a healthy climate. Hopefully with time and reflection things in this scene will heal. Don’t see how you can argue with that sentiment.

    As an added note I asked about F clan in that thread because I was just trying to see what the competitive scene was like and didn’t understand why so many people were invoking your clan’s name. I was promptly given information from the existing community which painted you guys terribly and so that was all I had to go on at the time. So if you need an apology from me and the comments I made based on what I was told/shown, then by all means, I’m sorry. I have a better sense of the dynamics of this community now and am trying not to jump the gun when it comes to placing blame.

    I think Master and Dan coming out and expressing their feelings on the matter is a great step to properly characterizing the situation. There are obviously lots of people that still have very strong feelings about F clan and might express themselves in a negative manner towards you guys, I suggest you guys be the bigger men by not stooping to their level and I’m sure things will sort out.



  • I’m pleased to see the difference in the tone of this thread in comparison to previous cancerous threads which were rightfully locked. It upset me to not only see the senseless discrimination Faucheur has had to go through but also the discrimination leveled against the tournament committee, more specifically, heightofabsurdity.

    I’d like to first say that I haven’t agreed with every decision made by height during the tournament. However, he still did a fantastic job taking the responsibility of arranging the tournament and for that I thank him. Tournaments like these have enormous potential of affecting the community in a positive way. I sincerely hope height will continue to do things like this in the future because I still think he did as good a job as anyone else could have done running the tournament. On a side note, I hope Hexen will continue to commentate many matches to come. He’s responsible for an embarassing amount of mouthfuls of IPAs and hefeweizens nearly spat out on my computer.

    With that being said I hope Faucheur and the community can recover from this. I don’t see why not. They’re a fantastic group of guys and I’ve enjoyed scrimming and messing around with them. It is perhaps quite easy to suspect them of cheating. They’re out of this world good. However, after many scrims with them, we’re beginning to pick up on new techniques and put up more resistance. The evidence surrounding Bigs of aimbotting and Dan of speccing is incredibly weak.

    Bada’s reddit post accusing Bigs of cheating includes one piece of relevant evidence. A 240p video at best. Normally ones gets flamed for posting a collection of moving pixels on the internet but now it’s being passed as damning evidence. Bigs was then branded as a cheater in the tournament for cheating in a non-tournament game and streaming it, cheating in the past, being banned for it, and lying about it (height included no mention of a certain 240p video when he made his decision). All of this was proven but none of this is against the tournament rules to my knowledge. It is the definition of irrelevant.

    While there was a decent debate to be had about Bigs, the spectator debate was stupid. Whether Dan was spectating or not (f proved that he wasn’t despite being in game) there was no team penalty in the tournament rules for spectating. The ref messed up and they replayed the match. Clear cut issue.

    Amidst all of this controversy, I hope these issues can eventually be put to rest and Faucheur can recover their reputation. They have full support from The Brotherhood and I’m happy to see they also have support from other reasonable individuals such as ia AlphaSniper. This is a basis for hope.



  • @MrDolo:

    @gregcau:

    Seems like Faucheur got the raw end of the stick due to a misunderstanding. Don’t worry it will all blow over soon, nobody really cares.

    I think i love you greg.

    Pity you are a Mr.

    I thought the application of the rules for competition was interesting, I would have made the wrong decision at the time but hindsight is 20/20 and it is obvious now nothing untoward happened and Faucheur was innocent. Hopefully the other teams come to the same decision and everyone can move on.



  • The competitive scene looks pretty self-destructive from an outside point of view. I don’t really understand why there are so many high-strung people in it.



  • @dudeface:

    The competitive scene looks pretty self-destructive from an outside point of view. I don’t really understand why there are so many high-strung people in it.

    It was a perfect storm of a money tournament, poor refs, misunderstandings, and bogus accusations. This is quite uncommon actually. Despite strong opinions on both sides, everyone in the competitive scene should strive to make sure this whole thing blows over for the best interest of the community.



  • Despite past emotion driven posts, My opinion on F has always boiled down to this.

    I do not in any way think the entirety of Faucheur is the same or acts/partakes in the same things. I’ve spoken with only a few of their members in private chat and a few more in game. From those many interactions, only a few have shown me that they are respectable and mature. Namely, Ninja Cub, Skooma, and Park Ranger Steve (although he recently left F). Some have different opinions than i, but i consider them a positive part of the community. After reading the entirety of this post, Master Guy has earned that same respect. This is one of the very few F posts i have seen that has made me think this. However, Some bad apples really do spoil a bunch. There is no denying the immaturity that has come from F (Not to say that other clans haven’t acted this way at other times) and many times it is a turn off. This and several other reasons are why i dislike scrimmaging F. All in all, i hope that recent events blow over and that this community can come together to rebuild itself. Rebuild itself stronger than before.

    I’m sure F will sort itself out. Only time will tell!



  • @Master:

    MOD WARNING – READ FIRST
    @b3h47pte:

    I’m pre-emptively warning anyone who attempts to turn this thread into a bashing thread or tries to incite any sort of unconstructive argument here will be given a temp ban.

    Please keep this as civil as possible. Before you hit the “Submit” button, take a few moments to read over your post and if you feel like it’s questionable, rewrite it to be as nice as possible. Although I can’t control any of the hate outside of the forums, any attempt to bring it here will be met with a nice, loving ban hammer.

    […]
    Fine. I can’t argue with that. Your clan, your server, your rules. Like I said before, though, this bullying has perhaps gone a bit too far. I was recently introduced to the wonderful steam group “Boycott faucher 2013,” composed of a number of people that I considered allies and friends, and I was left asking myself what the point of it was. Yeah, Faucheur is hated. But why indiscriminately target all of its members? […]

    Because every member of Faucheur put on a <3 bigs tag and “defended” a proven hacker by using personal attacks, venomous posts/Steam messages and direct threats.

    The entire clan supported bigs and cheating in general, so the entire clan gets banned and boycotted. If you don’t like it, drop the f tag and thereby prove you don’t support such things. Park Ranger Steve did so immediately when he was informed of all of Faucheur’s wrongdoing, I suggest you follow his example.

    USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST. DO NOT RESPOND TO IT.



  • I don’t think that’s true about Steve. He told me he dropped the tag because he thought he wasn’t being included in enough scrimmages and did it on Friday before the tournament.



  • The <3 bigs in our steam name was to protest his unreasonable ban from the tournament due to the extrememly poor “evidence” used to convict him. We will prove his innocence in due time with REAL evidence and numbers! Expect this soon.

    Your clan and anyone is free to boycott and ban our members from your servers. This however is very childish and has no impact in your campain to shun us from the game. Your members will not recieve the same treatment as you have shown ours in any Faucheur server. We are above this silly drama and look to mend ties with anyone that would like to. The clans boycotting us now rarely if anything ever scrimmed us before the boycott so its not really an issue to us.


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