Shields



  • There are a few things I think need clearification, also I havent seen a balance discussion so lets start one.

    First this:

    @BB:

    All shields and parries actually have the same size hitbox.

    Did this change?

    Cause like 1 or 2 months ago I tested shields with a friend on an empty server.

    He was knight with tower, looking up, blocking. I was crouching and swinging at his feet. He blocked even thru there was a visual gap and his feet looked unprotected. We tried the same with me as MAA blocking with the buckler. He had no problem hitting my feet.

    Also from my experience it is easier to block with a tower than with a buckler.

    So with people wanting heaters for knights all shields should be balanced I think. Can someone maybe provide some numbers how long they take to lower raise and what other differences there are?



  • Shield drop time goes from .3s (tower) down to .15s (buckler). And the modifiers for stamina damage are also here somewhere on the forums…tower had 5 and all the other shields had 4.75 (or was it 4.5? I’m not sure^^).



  • @Towe:

    There are a few things I think need clearification, also I havent seen a balance discussion so lets start one.

    First this:

    @BB:

    All shields and parries actually have the same size hitbox.

    Did this change?

    Cause like 1 or 2 months ago I tested shields with a friend on an empty server.

    He was knight with tower, looking up, blocking. I was crouching and swinging at his feet. He blocked even thru there was a visual gap and his feet looked unprotected. We tried the same with me as MAA blocking with the buckler. He had no problem hitting my feet.

    Also from my experience it is easier to block with a tower than with a buckler.

    So with people wanting heaters for knights all shields should be balanced I think. Can someone maybe provide some numbers how long they take to lower raise and what other differences there are?

    Well, larger shield = bigger hitbox.

    I dont see the problem luckily



  • Thx falc!

    Do you have anything to back your statement up uglyshit? Because random guesses wont get us anywhere…



  • @Towe:

    Thx falc!

    Do you have anything to back your statement up uglyshit? Because random guesses wont get us anywhere…

    You seem upset.

    Falc is correct btw.

    Oh, and buckler is a horrendously bad shield. Luckily TBS cares about fixing bad weapons!

    loljk.



  • @Falc:

    Shield drop time goes from .3s (tower) down to .15s (buckler). And the modifiers for stamina damage are also here somewhere on the forums…tower had 5 and all the other shields had 4.75 (or was it 4.5? I’m not sure^^).

    I’m not sure where Martin is getting those absorption numbers for shields, but buckler absorption is 4, heater is 4.5, kite is 5, and tower is 6. Attack damage / shield absorption = stamina lost, so blocking a 100 damage attack with the buckler drains 25 stamina and with the tower drains 17 (it’s rounded to the nearest whole number).

    Shield drop time is actually .2 for buckler, .25 for heater, .3 for kite and .35 for tower. There are also values for stamina drain every second you hold your shield up after a few seconds, from 2.5 per second for buckler to 4 per second for tower, but this rarely comes into play.

    Blocking volume is the same for all blocks and parries with regard to melee attacks - the block area is slightly larger than the area of screen you see at 120 FoV, so a larger block volume would not help you aim your blocks, it would just make blocking more forgiving. Blocking volumes match the visual size of the shield when blocking projectiles, however, for both passive and active blocks, making it harder to hit legs against larger shields - but keep in mind projectile hitboxes are larger than the projectiles themselves (almost every game does this kind of projectile forgiveness to compensate for player positions being slightly off even with good prediction systems) so shooting just past the edge of the shield will indeed be blocked and cause your arrow to appear to be stuck on air.

    Hope this clarifies some things about shields.



  • @SlyGoat:

    so shooting just past the edge of the shield will indeed be blocked and cause your arrow to appear to be stuck on air.

    Huh, I always assumed it was the shield that had a larger hitbox than it would appear.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @Falc:

    Shield drop time goes from .3s (tower) down to .15s (buckler). And the modifiers for stamina damage are also here somewhere on the forums…tower had 5 and all the other shields had 4.75 (or was it 4.5? I’m not sure^^).

    I’m not sure where Martin is getting those absorption numbers for shields, but buckler absorption is 4, heater is 4.5, kite is 5, and tower is 6. Attack damage / shield absorption = stamina lost, so blocking a 100 damage attack with the buckler drains 25 stamina and with the tower drains 17 (it’s rounded to the nearest whole number).

    Shield drop time is actually .2 for buckler, .25 for heater, .3 for kite and .35 for tower. There are also values for stamina drain every second you hold your shield up after a few seconds, from 2.5 per second for buckler to 4 per second for tower, but this rarely comes into play.

    Blocking volume is the same for all blocks and parries with regard to melee attacks - the block area is slightly larger than the area of screen you see at 120 FoV, so a larger block volume would not help you aim your blocks, it would just make blocking more forgiving. Blocking volumes match the visual size of the shield when blocking projectiles, however, for both passive and active blocks, making it harder to hit legs against larger shields - but keep in mind projectile hitboxes are larger than the projectiles themselves (almost every game does this kind of projectile forgiveness to compensate for player positions being slightly off even with good prediction systems) so shooting just past the edge of the shield will indeed be blocked and cause your arrow to appear to be stuck on air.

    Hope this clarifies some things about shields.

    Wait what? I always thought tower shields lost more stamina on block?



  • @-Thylacine-:

    @Towe:

    Thx falc!

    Do you have anything to back your statement up uglyshit? Because random guesses wont get us anywhere…

    You seem upset.

    Falc is correct btw.

    Oh, and buckler is a horrendously bad shield. Luckily TBS cares about fixing bad weapons!

    loljk.

    Haha, well, you’re a little bit oblivious arent you…let me name a few bad weapons they fixed. Double axe, polehammer, quarterstaff.



  • @Psyfon:

    @-Thylacine-:

    @Towe:

    Thx falc!

    Do you have anything to back your statement up uglyshit? Because random guesses wont get us anywhere…

    You seem upset.

    Falc is correct btw.

    Oh, and buckler is a horrendously bad shield. Luckily TBS cares about fixing bad weapons!

    loljk.

    Haha, well, you’re a little bit oblivious arent you…let me name a few bad weapons they fixed. Double axe, polehammer, quarterstaff.

    Double axe is still bad.
    Polehammer is fine.
    Quarterstaff is fine.

    They just buff the ‘‘cool’’ weapons, that’s my point.



  • Double axe is still bad.

    Depends. Its combo overhead is quite nice and it is capable of dealing huge amounts of damage (one hit to kill archers and perhaps even men at arms too). There are probably better weapons to use, but I kind of like how double axe is working now. It’s much better that it was before.



  • @Holy.Death:

    Double axe is still bad.

    Depends. Its combo overhead is quite nice and it is capable of dealing huge amounts of damage (one hit to kill archers and perhaps even men at arms too). There are probably better weapons to use, but I kind of like how double axe is working now. It’s much better that it was before.

    Bearded axe is still vastly superior to Double in every way. It may not hit as hard but it has a almost non-existent windup and still hits like a truck. It’s also not as short as a pencil like the Double is.



  • @Goden:

    @Holy.Death:

    Double axe is still bad.

    Depends. Its combo overhead is quite nice and it is capable of dealing huge amounts of damage (one hit to kill archers and perhaps even men at arms too). There are probably better weapons to use, but I kind of like how double axe is working now. It’s much better that it was before.

    Bearded axe is still vastly superior to Double in every way. It may not hit as hard but it has a almost non-existent windup and still hits like a truck. It’s also not as short as a pencil like the Double is.

    From my knowledge the double axe is longer than the bearded axe because the true value for reach is really actual reach+release time+run speed, and since the bearded axe has lightning quick release and the the actual reach of the bearded and the dub are very similar from my experience after the dub axe got a reach buff I think the dub axe is really like 20-25% longer. I think they’re fairly balanced honestly. The dub axe gets more reach and a huge amount of damage when the bearded gets warp speed.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @Falc:

    Shield drop time goes from .3s (tower) down to .15s (buckler). And the modifiers for stamina damage are also here somewhere on the forums…tower had 5 and all the other shields had 4.75 (or was it 4.5? I’m not sure^^).

    I’m not sure where Martin is getting those absorption numbers for shields, but buckler absorption is 4, heater is 4.5, kite is 5, and tower is 6. Attack damage / shield absorption = stamina lost, so blocking a 100 damage attack with the buckler drains 25 stamina and with the tower drains 17 (it’s rounded to the nearest whole number).

    Shield drop time is actually .2 for buckler, .25 for heater, .3 for kite and .35 for tower. There are also values for stamina drain every second you hold your shield up after a few seconds, from 2.5 per second for buckler to 4 per second for tower, but this rarely comes into play.

    Blocking volume is the same for all blocks and parries with regard to melee attacks - the block area is slightly larger than the area of screen you see at 120 FoV, so a larger block volume would not help you aim your blocks, it would just make blocking more forgiving. Blocking volumes match the visual size of the shield when blocking projectiles, however, for both passive and active blocks, making it harder to hit legs against larger shields - but keep in mind projectile hitboxes are larger than the projectiles themselves (almost every game does this kind of projectile forgiveness to compensate for player positions being slightly off even with good prediction systems) so shooting just past the edge of the shield will indeed be blocked and cause your arrow to appear to be stuck on air.

    Hope this clarifies some things about shields.

    This needs a dramatic rethink. Shields are almost unusable now in melee. I end up letting people hit me instead of blocking because the stamina drain is so severe against big weapons it’s the only way I can continue to fight without getting stunned.



  • Is possible flank shields with alternate swing like pre-patch? I can’t do it anymore…

    Sorry for my bad english, not native :)



  • It’s possible but you actually have to hit the flank, close up alt-slashes don’t pass through the shield as they were pre-patch.



  • @Dr:

    It’s possible but you actually have to hit the flank, close up alt-slashes don’t pass through the shield as they were pre-patch.

    Alt slashes could never do that, they were just harder to react to. With the .1 longer windup this is fixed for the most part.

    Also this happened last patch.



  • @BB:

    @Dr:

    It’s possible but you actually have to hit the flank, close up alt-slashes don’t pass through the shield as they were pre-patch.

    Alt slashes could never do that, they were just harder to react to. With the .1 longer windup this is fixed for the most part.

    Also this happened last patch.

    If you were facehugging your arm would start in the opponent’s shield and the weapon would pass by the block.



  • Stamina drain on shields is fine. It’s the penalty you get for trying to block huge weapons. Share the burden by using footwork to avoid hits, only using your shield when you must.



  • I still think it should be toned down about, the stamina drain on shields.


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