Does the Claymore buff finally make the Van viable in duels?



  • ^Title, before they were just Knights who die faster and slightly longer reach, but now they’ve got a cray op 2 handed weapon it might push them in viability in duels. And by “cray op” I mean its still balanced since Claymore was never that good of a choice in big team battles b/c of its small AoE, and its one of the few weapons that allows Van’s to compete in 1v1’s.



  • The Longsword / SoW nerf is what theoretically makes vanguards more viable in duels.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    The Longsword / SoW nerf is what theoretically makes vanguards more viable in duels.

    the most competitive option for knight was always a 1 hander in anycase…

    Not sure why longsword was nerfed, it paled to SoW terribly in duels, probably for TDM or something.



  • Weapons are nerfd on an arbitrary basis.

    I think it has something to do with the opinions of the less than reputable balance council

    Combined with what the devs feel they see more of in competitive play (if you see it show up with a higher frequency than other weapons, it MUST need a nerf!)

    Both terrible ways to decide on weapon balance.

    No knight sword needed a nerf all knight weapons aside from doubleaxe were fine.

    Vanguard is more viable now if it uses its crazy OP weapon yes. I dont really understand the question
    **
    if you give any class an incredibly OP weapon

    They will be more viable.**



  • For me the vanguard was always the class I used for duels. They always have me the highest win lose ratios out of the the classes.

    I use either the great sword or claymore.

    And the claymore is faster so I have a better chance against a good MAA.



  • @JCash:

    Weapons are nerfd on an arbitrary basis.

    I think it has something to do with the opinions of the less than reputable balance council

    Combined with what the devs feel they see more of in competitive play (if you see it show up with a higher frequency than other weapons, it MUST need a nerf!)

    Both terrible ways to decide on weapon balance.

    No knight sword needed a nerf all knight weapons aside from doubleaxe were fine.

    Vanguard is more viable now if it uses its crazy OP weapon yes. I dont really understand the question
    **
    if you give any class an incredibly OP weapon

    They will be more viable.**

    Before they weren’t viable, I’m asking are they now?



  • @theuprising:

    @JCash:

    Weapons are nerfd on an arbitrary basis.

    I think it has something to do with the opinions of the less than reputable balance council

    Combined with what the devs feel they see more of in competitive play (if you see it show up with a higher frequency than other weapons, it MUST need a nerf!)

    Both terrible ways to decide on weapon balance.

    No knight sword needed a nerf all knight weapons aside from doubleaxe were fine.

    Vanguard is more viable now if it uses its crazy OP weapon yes. I dont really understand the question
    **
    if you give any class an incredibly OP weapon

    They will be more viable.**

    Before they weren’t viable, I’m asking are they now?

    Completely depends on playstyle.

    For me they were viable beforehand.

    And now they do a bit better against a man at arms.



  • I disagree with all these claims that the claymore is OP. It’s just fast. It usually takes an extra hit compared to the other two-hand swords. It’s also quite short compared to them. It’s just a solid choice now, one I’d make if there were lots of MAAs I was having trouble with. Greatsword or Zwei is still going to be a good choice when there are lots of vanguards on field. The range is very much more important now that combo feint to parry is nerfed. I’ve just backed away from many vans when they attack, then rush in with a greatsword thrust before they can recover and parry.

    The only area the claymore might need nerfing in is the combo times. The current speed means that if a defender mis-times his first parry and gets hit, he’s unlikely to be able to ready his parry in time for a second. This is a feature of some of the shorter weapons like shortsword, saber, and war axe, but combined with the reach and damage of claymore it’s a bit stronk.



  • @theuprising:

    ^Title, before they were just Knights who die faster and slightly longer reach, but now they’ve got a cray op 2 handed weapon it might push them in viability in duels. And by “cray op” I mean its still balanced since Claymore was never that good of a choice in big team battles b/c of its small AoE, and its one of the few weapons that allows Van’s to compete in 1v1’s.

    They were viable beforehand. I know of tons of people with ludicrous duel records as pre-patch Vanguard.

    Now they’re pretty much the go-to choice for dueling. The billhook and claymore are hands-down the best weapons for dueling.



  • Claymore takes 4 hits to kill a knight now, most knight weapons still 2 shot vanguards np. I don’t think this makes vanguard good enough for duels yet, especially since you can’t combo feint any more and kick shield daze doesn’t work.



  • The incorrect assumption that Vanguards were not viable in duels prior kind of kills the point of this thread.

    But yes, Vanguards are better now.



  • @theuprising:

    ^Title, before they were just Knights who die faster and slightly longer reach

    WTF??? If you really thought of vanguards like that you probably played them as much as I played the maa. About 10 minutes ever.
    The Vanguards are, and were before the patch, a damage-dealer class, able to keep multiple enemies of the same skilllevel at bay for some time. (keeping at bay doesn’t mean defeating both of them)

    I always use the vanguard in duels. It was fine before the patch and post-patch it’s easier against the maa.

    Sorry :D But I really love the vanguard and you calling him a less armoured knight with more reach made me go mad XD



  • @Peter:

    @theuprising:

    ^Title, before they were just Knights who die faster and slightly longer reach

    WTF??? If you really thought of vanguards like that you probably played them as much as I played the maa. About 10 minutes ever.
    The Vanguards are, and were before the patch, a damage-dealer class, able to keep multiple enemies of the same skilllevel at bay for some time. (keeping at bay doesn’t mean defeating both of them)

    I always use the vanguard in duels. It was fine before the patch and post-patch it’s easier against the maa.

    Sorry :D But I really love the vanguard and you calling him a less armoured knight with more reach made me go mad XD

    Talking about duels bro. They brought nothing to the table.



  • @SOC:

    Claymore takes 4 hits to kill a knight now, most knight weapons still 2 shot vanguards np. I don’t think this makes vanguard good enough for duels yet, especially since you can’t combo feint any more and kick shield daze doesn’t work.

    Knight shitty 2 hander swords still take 4 hits to kill as well. Literally no downside to using claymore over sword of war.



  • Weapon speed in this game has greater priority than damage. What does it matter if you have to hit 1 or 2 more times as long as you can hit well before the enemy with a overly fast weapon?

    Range is the tempering factor of the speed/damage decision. Basically the shorter the range of the weapon the slower it is to effectively damage, as you have to factor in the time taken for your opponent, or you, to get in range of it.
    An example, A long reach weapon can start its windup earlier as the enemy is in reach, by the time the short weapon steps into its range, the slower long range weapon is already 1/2 way through its hit cycle, thus landing the hit first.

    So if you have a long range, fast weapon, that is the speed of a short range weapon, it is effectively faster to do damage. If it is fast enough, it can flinch most weapons before they are a threat. This is where the Claymore is strongest most, the speed of it, plus the range, keeps you at a comfortable advantage certainly worth trading an extra hit or 2 to have.
    There really is no reason to choose another weapon unless you know you can smash your opponents by shear skill, in which case you can do so with any weapon.
    The spear class weapon is about the only true alternative to the Claymore for vanguards.

    It also really, really shines in FFA because of that speed, people just cant get close enough to you to be a threat if you play right.



  • Vanguards has always been viable. If you found them lacking earlier, it just means you didn’t know how to play correctly.



  • Polearms….


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