BIG OVERSIGHT on new Flinch time and Combo-feint change.



  • 2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    Normally the way you could punish a hit -> combo-feint -> attack, would be to attack them during that.

    You can NO LONGER do that. This was a very vital option that was needlessly removed from the game. You can no longer punish someone for combo-feinting.

    WHY?!

    This is the one thing that is making me hate this patch – Combo-feints not being punishable.



  • I don’t think you were ever able to catch someone with an attack in their Hit–>combo-feint–>attack attempt, unless you’re talking about a previous beta.
    Maybe before with fast weapon’s alt swings ex. Hatchet, Sprinkler?

    Anyway, I think the increased flinch on 2handed weapons is appropriate.
    There should however be some way of defending against the tactic without simply guessing.
    This is one long winded suggestion, spoilered for convenience.

    ! I think it’s funny that there isn’t much of a commotion about feints at the moment because of the backlash of the latest patch.
    !
    ! Anywho, I’d like to beat the dead horse little.
    !
    ! This idea I don’t think has gotten enough attention.
    ! I think it’s a much better solution to the feinting “issue” than changing how much of your attack you can feint, timings and the god awful idea of an audio “grunt” queue.
    !
    ! It ties in with the parry out of recovery mechanic pretty nicely, it was implemented by a bug on accident in one of the betas and everyone seemed to think it was on purpose and completely dismissed the idea.
    !
    ! It would just be a second parry that you could queue in recovery of your first parry for the cost of 25 (or whatever is the agreed upon amount) stamina.
    ! If you land the second parry you would be unable to riposte, this would maintain the attackers favor in the momentum of the fight and the stamina management.
    !
    ! Perhaps even further the “panic” parry would have a longer recovery time than a normal parry but NOT a longer active parry window.
    !
    ! The “panic” parry would NOT be able to be comboed into anything else, you either parry the attack or you miss and have to recover.
    !
    ! This is a simple and intuitive fix. This doens’t give the defender the advantage it just eliminates the 50/50 that feinting and combo feinting creates.
    !
    ! I don’t believe any amount of timing tweaking or stamina cost tweaking is going to solve the issue, the problem the entire time was with parrying.
    !
    ! I doubt this will ever see the light of day though, TB and a lot of the community is set on feinting be the end all be all to land a hit on an opponent who’s learned how to parry.
    !
    ! Rev up dem mods people.
    Or a different solution would be something along the lines of this, maybe fast kicks being able to interrupt? I don’t know though, that would require tedious testing of release times etc.
    @SlyGoat:

    @Blackleader:

    6. Do you think it would be a bad idea to allow to kick during the recovery of a parry? So if you have parry for nothing after your opponent feint, you would still have a chance to avoid being hit by performing a reflex kick during the recovery of your parry.

    We’ve thought about that, it may be something worth testing.



  • @Alyx:

    I don’t think you were ever able to catch someone with an attack in their Hit–>combo-feint–>attack attempt, unless you’re talking about a previous beta.
    Maybe before with fast weapon’s alt swings ex. Hatchet, Sprinkler?

    You could interrupt a combo-feint attack with something as slow as a pole-axe before this patch was released.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    You could interrupt a combo-feint attack with something as slow as a pole-axe before this patch was released.

    Really? Wouldn’t it vary on the weapon’s windup/release, I doubt it was possible to interrupt a norsesword combofeint–>attack. Even with some twohanded weapons an accelerated overhead would seem to be fast enough to not get interrupted or at the very least trade hits.
    Then again I didn’t play any scrimmages or tournaments where that would be prevalent.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.



  • ^ this



  • with the flinch time, i’ve also noticed that i’ve been flinched long enough to not be able to parry the combo’ed attack either.

    And yes, before you could interrupt someones combofeint by attacking them, this was a great (possibly only) strat for feint/combo feint heavy users, other than predicting the feints and parrying the real attacks…



  • @BB:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.

    And that problem was already solved with combo feint to parry, wasn’t it?



  • @BB:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.

    Fix combo times, or fix certain wind-ups, don’t break and entire mechanic in the game because of it.

    Or perhaps thats the way it should be, really fast weapons should counter really slow weapons.



  • @dudeface:

    @BB:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.

    And that problem was already solved with combo feint to parry, wasn’t it?

    it COULD be… but noone would combo feint to parry when they had the initiating strike… because you shouldn’t get interrupted between combo’s… the defender should be forced to parry or evade somehow. This is why they increased the flinch time. MAY be a little too long though methinks… as i said i’ve been hit once, and could not parry the 2nd attack (combo attack). Oddly, i feel like i remember this happening from a warhammer? I’m thinking if they accelerate the 2nd swing enough it’s possible.

    Also, the maa flinches don’t seem to work. I’ve been able to swing RIGHT after being hit with maa, and sometimes while getting hit… something is seriously off there. It’s as if you hit a teammate and he can just continue to strike. No specific weapon as i was using the war axe, i’ve seen it with hatchet users, and ESPECIALLY daggar users, the hunting knife for example has a really fast combo, and it seems to not flinch all the time… or ever possibly. More testing i shall do!



  • I mean, I use the zweihander, and people interrupting my combos…? that would not have featured in my top 10 complaints. I guess there are a few slower weapons though.



  • it’s not just combos like if you missed they hit you between, it’s when you hit them and are going for the 2nd hit in the combo… they could flinch you before. That was maybe not on my top 10 but it was up there.

    Hell i’ve been flinched in between a SOW combo.



  • The issue I’m describing here is being unable to punish combo-feinters with an attack. You are forced to be on the defensive, without having any say in the matter.



  • @dudeface:

    And that problem was already solved with combo feint to parry, wasn’t it?

    No. If you hit him you shouldnt have to feint out of your combo cause his weapon is so fast.



  • the only situation where somoene should be able to flinch your combo… is if you drag your swing… forcing your swing to take longer to arrive than normal… thus they could flinch you. Otherwise… with a normal combo aimed properly, you should retain initiative if your first strike hits.



  • I do agree but just parry the combo feint instead of attacking. It doesn’t really punish the enemy but it does hand the control of the fight over to you.



  • @dudeface:

    @BB:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.

    And that problem was already solved with combo feint to parry, wasn’t it?

    Correct. You could avoid hittrades with a simple combofeinttoparry.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @BB:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    2 Handers now flinch for 1.1 seconds. In addition, the unfeintable window only adds to this problem with sooner feints.

    The problem was fast weapons could interrupt the combos of slow weapons after getting hit.

    Fix combo times, or fix certain wind-ups, don’t break and entire mechanic in the game because of it.

    Or perhaps thats the way it should be, really fast weapons should counter really slow weapons.

    You want to counter combo feints? Press dodge.

    It’s amazing how no one has figured out this simple mechanic.



  • @Daiyuki:

    You want to counter combo feints? Press dodge.

    It’s amazing how no one has figured out this simple mechanic.

    Okay, so what about every other class?



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Fix combo times, or fix certain wind-ups, don’t break and entire mechanic in the game because of it.

    We’d basically be making all weapons the same speed at that point. Making faster weapons slower and slower weapons faster isn’t the way to go.


Log in to reply