I need help fighting spears/polearms



  • I’m beginning to get frustrated in ways I haven’t been in a long time, mostly due to the polearms/spears of the vanguard.

    The tactic used to be run into their stab, parry through the stab, and counter right away. That no longer works because the parry will knock you back, and you can’t approach them without their ridiculously fast hits coming back to knock you out of range if you parry, or get a hit if you don’t. A few back and forths of this and you’re suddenly out of stamina, and he’s got free hits on you.

    Has anyone figured this one out? I’d sit out of range and attack them once they miss one of their spammed stab attakcs, the problem is the range is not exactly precise anymore. I see the tip of their weapon ahead of me, but it still hits me. The amount of time they have between attacks is negligible at this point, and they can just rapid fire stab at ridiculous ranges.

    The only way to fight a vanguard with a polearm right now seems (at least to me) to be to choose a vanguard yourself. Please give me anything you guys have found… I can’t take this anymore and EVERYONE is using them.



  • @quigleyer:

    The tactic used to be run into their stab, parry through the stab, and counter right away.

    In most cases you’re going to have to parry two attacks and riposte on the second.

    Though there are a couple longer weapons like the Halberd stab that I think could use a reduction in their knockback.



    1. run away screaming help
    2. hide behind your archer teammate
    3. after the VG obliterates your helpless archer, stab him in the back


  • @BB:

    @quigleyer:

    The tactic used to be run into their stab, parry through the stab, and counter right away.

    In most cases you’re going to have to parry two attacks and riposte on the second.

    So

    A) So, it’s not possible with a shield to attack a spear guy? Lame, I really wanted to use this flail. It’s range and the lowered stamina makes it so that polearms easily defeat it. It’s just not an option…

    B) You’re saying I need to “crawl” towards him, right? What’s to prevent him from continually moving backwards and “spamming” his stab so I can never get near him?



  • The knockback shouldn’t be enough that you can’t reach him if all he’s doing is backpedaling, and a riposte shouldn’t be necessary.



  • So is there no downside to these polearms? The quick kick ensures that I won’t stay in range for more than 1 hit, and all he has to do is parry my attack if i have enough stamina to combo him by the time I reach him… and we’re right back at it.

    Not to mention how ridiculous this is in team situations. By the time I reach him I’m swarmed.

    Also, thanks for the help BB.



  • The best way to get into range I find is to have him whiff an attack on you, then sprint in and riposte the second he throws you. You should be in range to get a hit at that point.

    Once in range combo-feints are definitely something you’re going to have to employ if you want to stay there and not give him a chance to riposte. Depending on how fast your weapon is he’ll most likely be expecting you to combo it so going into recovery instead will have him parry nothing giving you a hit on him. If you don’t have the stamina for a feint or you don’t think he’ll fall for it intentionally missing by aiming above or next to him is also a great way to get around his parry times.



  • @BB:

    The best way to get into range I find is to have him whiff an attack on you, then sprint in and riposte the second he throws you. You should be in range to get a hit at that point.

    Once in range combo-feints are definitely something you’re going to have to employ if you want to stay there and not give him a chance to riposte. Depending on how fast your weapon is he’ll most likely be expecting you to combo it so going into recovery instead will have him parry nothing giving you a hit on him. If you don’t have the stamina for a feint or you don’t think he’ll fall for it intentionally missing by aiming above or next to him is also a great way to get around his parry times.

    I guess I’m adjusting my personal values now. I feint:

    Archers
    MaA
    Spear users (now)

    Thanks for the help, I’m going to see what this does.

    I don’t suppose you have any solutions for shield users? I’m really growing fond of the flail in that 30-40% of the time that my weapons aren’t unlocked.



  • @quigleyer:

    I don’t suppose you have any solutions for shield users?

    Yup. Depending on how defensive the person is, you can either jump kick them while their shields are up and get the stun on them, or feint them and kick while their block is up.

    The jump kick is key for effectively countering shields. Just make sure you don’t always start with the jump kick as the enemy might want to try attacking first. A good time to kick is either after you hit him once, or you block one of his attacks.

    Make sure you’re holding the kick button as tapping it will only give you the fast kick that doesn’t stun shields.



  • Thanks for those tips very much, but I was referring to using a shield against a pole arm. There doesn’t seem to be any ability to get off an attack (for example, when we’re talking about riposting a spear user) against these pole arms. I’m just getting knocked back constantly. Then I’m stunned for about 2 seconds…

    Specifically, when using the flail earlier today in a duel against a polehammer I found his weapon had better range, was faster, and did equal or more damage. There was literally nothing I could do but soak up hits until I became stunned long enough for him to finish me off.

    I’m not much of a shield user myself, and I’m only asking because I’m falling in love with the flail, but having a hard time getting past it’s shortcomings.



  • @BB:

    The knockback shouldn’t be enough that you can’t reach him if all he’s doing is backpedaling, and a riposte shouldn’t be necessary.

    Hmm, apparently you haven’t fought a Brandistock spamming stab (attack that comes at your face, not low “overhead” stab).



  • Especially with a maul(I main maul). Fighting a really good spearer with a maul is near impossible because the knockback and how short the maul is.



  • They don’t even really need to feint. I’ve noticed alot of them simply stab and backpedal. You can try feinting to close the distance, but most just attack anyway. Also, if they backpedal and you riposte, they basically have a free hit from the knockback and their backpedal speed. It will take some adjusting time, but it requires a whole lot more work now just to get close.



  • @SHH_:

    They don’t even really need to feint. I’ve noticed alot of them simply stab and backpedal. You can try feinting to close the distance, but most just attack anyway. Also, if they backpedal and you riposte, they basically have a free hit from the knockback and their backpedal speed. It will take some adjusting time, but it requires a whole lot more work now just to get close.

    Hey, SHH good to see you on here.

    So why wouldn’t I just choose vanguard and spam the spear?

    This feels really unbalanced to me. This really isn’t working out. I am required to do so much to deal with a guy, his S key, and rolling the mouse wheel down. I’ve lost to a few level 15s dealing with this. I just can’t fathom the thinking behind this, everything all adds up to a huge VG buff…

    No chase mechanic, a parry knockback, spear speed buffs, a character buffer bubble= 4X nerf to anyone with a shorter weapon (which is everyone else). Am I right in this thinking?



  • Specifically, when using the flail earlier today in a duel against a polehammer I found his weapon had better range, was faster, and did equal or more damage. There was literally nothing I could do but soak up hits until I became stunned long enough for him to finish me off.

    Pro tip, the flail is the wort melee weapon in this game, if not one of the worst. Try a warhammer+kitesheild. If you like the flail you will LOVE that setup.

    No chase mechanic, a parry knockback, spear speed buffs, a character buffer bubble= 4X nerf to anyone with a shorter weapon (which is everyone else). Am I right in this thinking?

    I think you are generally right about this except the 4x nerf part. It’ll either need alot of adjusting but I definately agree as of now, when I fight a good spearer with my maul or gmace I can never get a hit on him for the life of me.



  • @Jstorm:

    Specifically, when using the flail earlier today in a duel against a polehammer I found his weapon had better range, was faster, and did equal or more damage. There was literally nothing I could do but soak up hits until I became stunned long enough for him to finish me off.

    Pro tip, the flail is the wort melee weapon in this game, if not one of the worst. Try a warhammer+kitesheild. If you like the flail you will LOVE that setup.

    @33z0va0g:

    No chase mechanic, a parry knockback, spear speed buffs, a character buffer bubble= 4X nerf to anyone with a shorter weapon (which is everyone else). Am I right in this thinking?

    I think you are generally right about this except the 4x nerf part. It’ll either need alot of adjusting but I definately agree as of now, when I fight a good spearer with my maul or gmace I can never get a hit on him for the life of me.

    Thank you for your words. I just want to use the flail because I think it’s awesome and I like being good with things that you don’t see a lot of. My main, and still trustworthy setup, is just a straight up longsword, some sidearm I never use, and a shield. I have had occasions where I’ve gone 68-12 (and there about ) with this setup, I just wanted to use the flail so badly because I think it’s nifty. I’m quickly realizing it’s just not viable.

    But the longsword still takes some time in whittling down spear users. I fought a few in duels and I can still win 90% of the time against them with the LS (especially with what BB was saying), but it’s so much DAMN WORK to fight such an easy setup. They do nothing, I work hard…



  • I’ve found polearms to be really powerful since the patch, no just in group combat but in duels as well. The problem is the super fast and hard to block overhead stab.



  • The normal spear stab is the highest attack in te game. Easily ducked. Though ducking a stab doesn’t always work as they will just look down at the end. Not always though.

    Doing the matrix is better. As highly likely they won’t look down at you. And it looks awsome and the attacker gets really confused.

    The understab you just hae to block. Or jump if your on high ground.

    But I find with 1H weapons you do need to block twice now and counter attack on the second parry. If you try on the first you’ll tickle his helmet.

    With most two handers you just gotta block once. Or just go for a stab on your own while sporting foward. Though that usually results in a hit trade. Only try against brandistock as that’s the slowest.



  • Get rid of the knockback for stabbing in general. How does a stab knock you back when you parry it? Doesn’t make sense and seems very arbitrary. Knock back should happen only to shield users.

    Spear strength should be range and speed, but no knock back. The VG can always kick to ward off face huggers. Am I wrong?



  • I just want to use the flail because I think it’s awesome and I like being good with things that you don’t see a lot of.

    I was using flail pre-patch but post-patch it’s terrible and this comes from a person who was using flail on regular basis. It was hard and not best weapon to use (there were other, more efficient), but it was fun after you learned how to use it properly. Now, the shield-stab was very useful, currently it’s the best attack… Normal attacks are short, slow and deal less damage than any other weapon.

    Your best bet as a flail user is to get very close and shield-stab or shield-bash to confuse the enemy. Then you have to combo-attack in a way that’s not expected by the enemy. I found a lot of players don’t expect you to combo your attacks now.


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