Why do so few use spears?



  • I personally love the weapon and use it often in duels. However, I see very few who also use spears. Why?



  • 1. Spear-type weapons can only attack effectively in one direction. This can make it difficult to slip past shields and parries.

    2. Spears tend to telegraph their windup, and are somewhat more predictable now due to the feint nerf. This makes most standard spear attacks easy to parry.

    3. Damage is generally low on the most versatile swing (thrust).

    4. No meaningful combo potential.

    I still like to use spears, but you have be very tricky to kill a good player in 1v1. Smart feints, lots of drag thrusts, fadeaway thrusts, and other high-effort moves are necessary. Spears are best used in team fights where you can stab at multiple enemies at long range who may be otherwise busy fighting someone else.



  • It’s a good class of weapon. Just not as versatile as other weapons.

    The brandistock is the only spear with a viable LMB attack.



  • I think a lot of people either 1)don’t see the range as enough of a benefit or 2)haven’t used it enough to get the hang of it/figure out ways to use it better.

    I for one love using the spear, I tend to get a lot of people with things like crouching/jumping during windup, throwing off their aim when trying to parry. Another that seems to work well for me is using the horizontals enough to keep my attacks a bit more varied and avoid the enemy always knowing where my attack is coming from. Stab-feint into horizontal and vice versa seems to do pretty good too. It seems most people expect every attack to be stabs when you use the spear, so LMB tends to catch a lot of people off guard.

    Getting people with the upper stab to the face is always satisfying though :D

    EDIT: Forgot that LMB-feint into alternate LMB helps with the spear because of it’s really wide swing.



  • I’ve seen more and more people starting to use them after the patch though.



  • As a polearm/spear-vanguard it’s easy to bring you self in dangerous situations. With other weapons you get better results when you’re new to the game because they are more forgiving, especially in duels.



  • I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!



  • @Hitom:

    I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

    Don’t want to be rude, but are you being sarcastic? I really don’t understand people that say spear is better post patch. Overall it’s had a nerf imo. Recovery parry in no way makes up for the nerf to feints at the end of windup and the damage nerf on the stab. I played 650 hours of only spear and I can say from my perspective it’s definitely weaker post patch.

    Fork or Brandi are the way to go now :(



  • @Hitom:

    I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

    r u trollin me?



  • @Xylvion:

    I’ve seen more and more people starting to use them after the patch though.

    This is what I’m seeing. I see A LOT of spear users now. A lot of times I’m working my way “climbing” up a guy’s spear (two parries, then riposte… two parries, then riposte… two parries… THEN… RIPOSTE) and wind up getting 4-5 of his team mates running up with their pig stickers to kill me and stab through each other to try and hit me. I think I do more damage to a spear team by dying than I do by attacking them now, haha.

    I can duel a spear now, no problem. DAT MAUL.

    Still way too much work in a team setting. They have the advantage because they can keep distance, and there’s no quick way to finish one off because a lot of times it still takes multiple parries. They whittle down shield users into stunned targets with heads. But I guess you’re wondering why “not enough” people use them… not why they’re a pain :).



  • @Pan:

    @Hitom:

    I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

    Don’t want to be rude, but are you being sarcastic? I really don’t understand people that say spear is better post patch. Overall it’s had a nerf imo. Recovery parry in no way makes up for the nerf to feints at the end of windup and the damage nerf on the stab. I played 650 hours of only spear and I can say from my perspective it’s definitely weaker post patch.

    Fork or Brandi are the way to go now :(

    Weak in stats maybe, but you can now permanently keep people knocked back out of your range with minimal effort, something that required dancing (read: actual input) before. I don’t use spear because it feels like a noobs weapon now, where you just spam attacks and no one can reach you because of that knock back. It simply feels like a dumber version of what I had before.
    I mainly play polearm and spear vanguard myself, pre-patching. Post patching I’m just all over the place experimenting.



  • @Gauntlet:

    @Pan:

    @Hitom:

    I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

    Don’t want to be rude, but are you being sarcastic? I really don’t understand people that say spear is better post patch. Overall it’s had a nerf imo. Recovery parry in no way makes up for the nerf to feints at the end of windup and the damage nerf on the stab. I played 650 hours of only spear and I can say from my perspective it’s definitely weaker post patch.

    Fork or Brandi are the way to go now :(

    Weak in stats maybe, but you can now permanently keep people knocked back out of your range with minimal effort, something that required dancing (read: actual input) before. I don’t use spear because it feels like a noobs weapon now, where you just spam attacks and no one can reach you because of that knock back. It simply feels like a dumber version of what I had before.
    I mainly play polearm and spear vanguard myself, pre-patching. Post patching I’m just all over the place experimenting.

    Exactly this. Main reason I love the patch is all the graphical optimazitation it seem to have gotten, and all the weapons now finally feel and move as they should. Game has come a great long way. great job TBS!



  • Weak in stats maybe, but you can now permanently keep people knocked back out of your range with minimal effort, something that required dancing (read: actual input) before. I don’t use spear because it feels like a noobs weapon now, where you just spam attacks and no one can reach you because of that knock back. It simply feels like a dumber version of what I had before.
    I mainly play polearm and spear vanguard myself, pre-patching. Post patching I’m just all over the place experimenting.

    Oh lord you’re probably one of those players who just stays around the edge of the spear’s range without making a serious effort to close the gap. Or just a simple noob.



  • @Bloodhead:

    Weak in stats maybe, but you can now permanently keep people knocked back out of your range with minimal effort, something that required dancing (read: actual input) before. I don’t use spear because it feels like a noobs weapon now, where you just spam attacks and no one can reach you because of that knock back. It simply feels like a dumber version of what I had before.
    I mainly play polearm and spear vanguard myself, pre-patching. Post patching I’m just all over the place experimenting.

    Oh lord you’re probably one of those players who just stays around the edge of the spear’s range without making a serious effort to close the gap. Or just a simple noob.

    After reading your post. I realized I didn’t really read what i qouted. I think the spear is great after the new patch, been using it much more, the decreased slash windup time really helps on getting out of sticky situations.



  • @Gauntlet:

    @Pan:

    @Hitom:

    I LOVE THIS FRICKING PATCH MANG!!!

    Holy shit balls TBS! you did an awesome fucking sweeet ass job on this shit! All the weapons including the spear now operates and feels like they should!!! I LOVE YOU TBS!!! YOU ARE AWESOME! love the graphical optimazitaons!!! GREAT PATCH !!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!!

    Don’t want to be rude, but are you being sarcastic? I really don’t understand people that say spear is better post patch. Overall it’s had a nerf imo. Recovery parry in no way makes up for the nerf to feints at the end of windup and the damage nerf on the stab. I played 650 hours of only spear and I can say from my perspective it’s definitely weaker post patch.

    Fork or Brandi are the way to go now :(

    Weak in stats maybe, but you can now permanently keep people knocked back out of your range with minimal effort, something that required dancing (read: actual input) before. I don’t use spear because it feels like a noobs weapon now, where you just spam attacks and no one can reach you because of that knock back. It simply feels like a dumber version of what I had before.
    I mainly play polearm and spear vanguard myself, pre-patching. Post patching I’m just all over the place experimenting.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the pre-patch spear was stronger than post-patch. Post-patch the spear might be easier to use in the hands of someone less experienced but there’s no way you can achieve what you used to with the spear post patch. Fork and Brandi are definitely stronger. Not the spear, no way.



  • pan is the best spear player in europe if he says pre patch spear was stronger then i believe him.



  • @Pan:

    Don’t want to be rude, but are you being sarcastic? I really don’t understand people that say spear is better post patch. Overall it’s had a nerf imo. Recovery parry in no way makes up for the nerf to feints at the end of windup and the damage nerf on the stab. I played 650 hours of only spear and I can say from my perspective it’s definitely weaker post patch.

    I’ve been on vacation for a while so I didn’t get the chance to check speardamage in the new patch.
    How much has it changed? Does it still 3shot knights and 2shot VG’s? If not, then Brandistock sounds better now… Sadly.

    Imo. the feint nerf doesn’t mean a lot though. Depends on playstyle I guess.
    Also, your personal preference -> Do you still use regular spear or have you switched?



  • After the patch, I started to main the spear and occasionally the bradi-whatever you spell it.

    In a good game, I can go 20-2. In a bad game, I go even but still well over 10-15 kills in a TDM or TO mode. It’s very powerful solo and even better with team members to help. You just have to know how to drag, aim, and sometimes feint your stabs. Also, I only use the “overhead” and sometimes LMB to finish off an opponent or flinch them.

    @Bloodhead:

    Oh lord you’re probably one of those players who just stays around the edge of the spear’s range without making a serious effort to close the gap. Or just a simple noob.

    Um, isn’t that how you’re supposed to use the spear? Range is its main advantage.



  • @Event:

    After the patch, I started to main the spear and occasionally the bradi-whatever you spell it.

    In a good game, I can go 20-2. In a bad game, I go even but still well over 10-15 kills in a TDM or TO mode. It’s very powerful solo and even better with team members to help. You just have to know how to drag, aim, and sometimes feint your stabs. Also, I only use the “overhead” and sometimes LMB to finish off an opponent or flinch them.

    Well, to be fair, the spear is a pretty easy weapon to use when killing noobs. They just constantly underestimate the spear’s range.

    Try facing a good opponent in 1v1 and you’ll see it’s much harder.

    @Bloodhead:

    Oh lord you’re probably one of those players who just stays around the edge of the spear’s range without making a serious effort to close the gap. Or just a simple noob.

    Um, isn’t that how you’re supposed to use the spear? Range is its main advantage.

    Of course, but to suggest that a spearman can kill people by just spamming attacks and relying on the knockback is garbage. He clearly doesn’t know what he is talking about.



  • @CRUSHED:

    pan is the best spear player in europe if he says pre patch spear was stronger then i believe him.

    I wouldn’t say that but thanks!

    @StillAlive:

    I’ve been on vacation for a while so I didn’t get the chance to check speardamage in the new patch.
    How much has it changed? Does it still 3shot knights and 2shot VG’s? If not, then Brandistock sounds
    better now… Sadly.

    Imo. the feint nerf doesn’t mean a lot though. Depends on playstyle I guess.
    Also, your personal preference -> Do you still use regular spear or have you switched?

    Spear slash windup/recovery from .6/.7 to .425/.625 and damage from 40 to 30
    Spear overhead windup from .7 to .725 and recovery from .75 to .725
    Spear stab windup from .6 to .575, recovery from .725 to .65 and damage from 60 to 55

    These changes are fine, I welcomed them though basically they amount to nerfs. The problem is that in conjunction with the changes to mechanics, they make the spear much weaker.

    Sorry but you’re wrong when you say the feint nerf doesn’t mean a lot. The feint nerf is EVERYTHING to spears. In my opinion, prepatch spear was one of the strongest vanguard weapons (dueling and team). I like to think I’m honest and not biased so even though I mained it for 650 hours, I’m fine with saying that the spear probably needed a nerf. But it’s the mechanics changes which have truly done it. The feint nerf has affected the spear very strongly. Without combos, feints are one of the few things that spears have. And I’m even willing to forget about offensive feinting (I’m nice like that) but try not hitting team-mates with no late feint with the longest range weapon in the game. It was hard enough not to team hit pre-patch.

    This makes it much worse as a team-weapon. Oh yeah, and less stamina to play with makes them even weaker/more boring, again, 'cos you need to feint a lot with spears given that, you know, they don’t have combos.

    My personal preference: Don’t play the game, wait for ProMod. I know some people disagree (and I respect that) but to me the game feels like utter shit now. (If you must use a spear go Fork or Brandi as they are clearly the better choices now).

    @Event:

    Um, isn’t that how you’re supposed to use the spear? Range is its main advantage.

    Pre-patch spear was so much more than this. People who think you need to stay at long range to use spear, that they’re weak at close range, that you can’t duel with the spear, blah blah, don’t know what they’re talking about. Of course you use the long range but it’s not so simple. The spear WAS best played dynamically: Constantly moving in and out of close and long range, not being afraid to facehug, footworking to the side, and moving back out of range and in again. Now with the recent changes, sadly you’re kind of right. People advocating this static style of play where you just use the knockback to constantly push your opponent back, basically standing still/backpedalling spamming thrust, yeah, maybe that is the way to play with the spear post patch. Unfortunately it’s terribly boring … a baby could do it and it doesn’t compare to the kind of wonderful ballet that you could do with the spear pre-patch and isn’t nearly as effective.


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