Something weird I noticed about shields



  • If you raise and then drop your shield while sprinting there is a longer cooldown before you can attack than if you’re walking or standing still. This happens whether or not you have blocked an attack, and happens with any shield + weapon combo, with the knight at least.

    I would capture video of it but my computer sucks pretty hard and can’t handle running both the game and FRAPS, but go into an empty server and try it out.

    Is this common knowledge? At no point in the game does it ever say “hey watch out for sprinting while using a shield, it slows your attacks down!” Why on earth would they do this? No other attacks or moves are affected negatively by running in this game, so why single out shields? It feels very inconsistent and I can’t think of any good reason why it exists.

    The only advantage that shields have in melee is that they can block attacks from multiple players (which is useless now that you run out stamina instantly) at the cost of being slower to counter attack after a block, so I don’t see why they should be even SLOWER when sprinting forward. They’re already slow enough. You can’t riposte with a shield, which automatically makes you slower than a player without a shield who can sprint forward and riposte at the same time, so why further punish the shield user by making sprinting forward to attack after blocking functionally useless?

    It feels very unintuitive and confusing, making you feel like the game isn’t responding when you block an attack and then sprint forward to counter, only to have your attack not register. There is no visual cue given. If you are standing still and your drop your shield you can attack pretty much as soon as the shield is lowered all the way, but if you are sprinting and drop your shield there is a delay between when the shield drops fully and when you can attack, during which time your weapon just sits there idly but won’t respond to your commands.

    Anyways, I’ve been trying to use the warhammer and shield lately, and sucking with it, and I finally realized this is why. Get rid of this weird mechanic that is never communicated to the player and never used anywhere else in the game, and shields might actually be useful.

    tl;dr: If you sprint with a shield there is a long ass cooldown before you can attack after lowering the shield, and it’s dumb.



  • Actually the biggest use for shields in a melee is the greatly enhanced resistance to feints.
    Never heard of it being slower during sprint though. Can someone confirm or deny?



  • @DDR:

    Actually the biggest use for shields in a melee is the greatly enhanced resistance to feints.
    Never heard of it being slower during sprint though. Can someone confirm or deny?

    True. I hadn’t thought of that.

    But still doesn’t really justify such a weird cooldown mechanic. “You can block feints easier, so therefore you shouldn’t be allowed to counterattack effectively while sprinting” just seems totally illogical.

    Not that I’m saying you’re making that argument, just saying feint-resistance doesn’t change the weirdness of this cooldown mechanic.



  • Actually the biggest use for shields in a melee is the greatly enhanced resistance to feints.

    Why should you even try to feint shield users? Why not kick them instead?



  • @Holy.Death:

    Actually the biggest use for shields in a melee is the greatly enhanced resistance to feints.

    Why should you even try to feint shield users? Why not kick them instead?

    Because:

    a) Experienced shield users don’t block with their shields constantly because of the prevalence of kicks leaving them somewhat vulnerable to feints.
    b) If you run up in a shield user’s face and feint an overhead into a kick, they have no choice but to block with their shield and take the kick - leading to a stun and a free combo/mix-up.



  • Makes sense. I didn’t think of this (feint-to-kick) before.



  • you can also feint a shield user into opening up their side. If you hug the shield guy’s right side and feint an alt slash, you can follow that up with a stab to his left side he just exposed. Not to mention with the right footwork, you can get around shields like they aren’t even there.

    But on-topic, is it possible what you are experiencing is not intentional?



  • @Le:

    But on-topic, is it possible what you are experiencing is not intentional?

    Could very well be. I just assumed it was intended by the developers because shields behave this way completely consistently. It doesn’t seem glitchy, it seems more like someone went “let’s make the cooldown value for standing shield user .1, and the cooldown for sprinting shield users .3” or whatever arbitrary numbers they actually are, but then never made the shield animation actually reflect these different timings.

    I could be totally wrong though, might just be an unintended side effect or something.



  • What annoys me with shields is I can get flinched and cannot raise my shield before the combo lands (for some weapons).



  • Wow, this is actually true. Now I know why fighting with a shield felt so awkward at times.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    Wow, this is actually true. Now I know why fighting with a shield felt so awkward at times.

    Exactly, awkward describes it best. I’ve been trying to give shields a chance for a while now, but they just feel weird and frustrating with very little advantage, and this is a huge reason why.



  • Does it only happen on a server? Does it only happen with a specific shield/setup? Are you tapping block or holding it, are you queuing your attack with your shield still up or starting the attack after your shield has dropped?



  • @SlyGoat:

    Does it only happen on a server? Does it only happen with a specific shield/setup? Are you tapping block or holding it, are you queuing your attack with your shield still up or starting the attack after your shield has dropped?

    If you click after dropping the shield, this happens completely consistently, on any server, with any weapon setup (with the knight at least, haven’t tested MAA). Tapping or holding the parry button makes no difference.

    Queueing up attacks by holding the parry button and pressing the attack button at the same time seems to be a bit different though, now that you mention it. It seems like the standing attack is just as slow as the sprinting attack at that point… sometimes. But, it’s a bit hard to tell because my observations are mostly based on the timing of the clicks. But, there is still a visible lag where the shield drops and your weapon just freezes for a moment before the actual swing happens.

    The buckler seems a bit quicker than the other shields when sprinting, but not enough to make it feel fluid. Still feels clunky.

    It would be very interesting to see someone take footage of these different moves and put them side by side.



  • FufWcv76oGM



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Interesting. Was this done while lowering the shield then clicking attack, or while holding the parry button while clicking attack?

    I’m thinking there might be another possibility, which is that the actual amount of time it takes for the attack to come out is the same whether you are sprinting or not, but that the time when you can click attack after lowering the shield is different.

    When you are walking or standing you can click attack the moment the shield is lowered and it registers, but if you are sprinting you have to wait for a moment after the shield has lowered, leaving your weapon idle for a moment, then click attack.

    PS: Thanks for the video! Very helpful.



  • @Dev.:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    Interesting. Was this done while lowering the shield then clicking attack, or while holding the parry button while clicking attack?

    Holding the parry button while clicking attack.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    @Dev.:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    Interesting. Was this done while lowering the shield then clicking attack, or while holding the parry button while clicking attack?

    Holding the parry button while clicking attack.

    Okay, this is consistent with my experience. While holding parrying and clicking attack the sprint and standing attacks seemed to be equally slow.

    It’s when you let go of parry then click attack that this seems to occur.

    Like I mentioned above, there is also the possibility that the amount of time these attacks take is all the same, it’s just when you can click to attack that is different, which is still a problem because it means there are unresponsive controls while sprinting with a shield.


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