Flail Balance Ideas



  • Okay, so in this thread I will be posting my ideas on how I think the flails should be balanced. My goal for the Spiked Flail is not only for TBS to name it the Spiked Flail in-game but to utilize it’s pierce/blunt damage to be a nasty anti-vanguard weapon, like a shorter but faster Morning Star. My goal for the Heavy Flail is to make it have similar damage to the pre-patch Warhammer so it tears through knights but slower than the current Warhammer. Also, on both flails I think you should remove the buckler and make the player choose between either the tower shield or the kite shield and replace the shield bash attack for a quick jab with the butt of the handle of the flail with the animation of the thrusting dagger or broad dagger OH attack but it can’t be comboed like all stabs. This would add to the flail having weird animations that are hard to pick up on because it might confuse players on whether it’s a powerful, slow alt OH or a weak, quick stab. Also, the stab will be allowed to combo in and out of but not comboing double stabs.

    Spiked Flail

    attack/power/type/windup/combo/release/recovery

    Now
    attack1/60/pierceblunt/.5/.65/.5/.65
    attack2/70/pierceblunt/.55/.65/.4/.65
    attack3/35/blunt/.45/.65/.35/.525

    My Suggestion

    ! attack1/65/pierceblunt/.4/.65/.5/.65
    ! attack2/70/pierceblunt/.45/.65/.4/.65
    ! attack3/35/blunt/.35/.65/.45/.525

    I made the slash damage 65 so that you’d need one head hit in order to 2 shot a van with a double LMB because the last thing I want is noobs LMB spamming Spiked Flails. With these changes the Spiked Flail becomes a faster but shorter Morning Star with the same HTK against all classes. I don’t think this will render the Morning Star obsolete because of the Spiked Flail’s pitiful reach but if you can get close up to vanguards they will pretty much get rekt as far as I can see.

    Heavy Flail

    Now
    attack1/70/blunt/.55/.7/.55/.7
    attack2/75/blunt/.6/.7/.45/.7
    attack3/35/blunt/.45/.7/.35/.525

    My Suggestion

    ! attack1/75/blunt/.45/.7/.5/.7
    ! attack2/85/blunt/.5/.7/.4/.7
    ! attack3/40/blunt/.4/.7/.45/.6
    ! +20% reach on all attacks

    This version of the Heavy Flail will make it a slightly slower version of the pre-patch Warhammer with a weaker slash to prevent LMBLMBLMBLMBLMBLMBLMBLMB etc. but also with a better stab. I know a lot of people wanted their pre-nerf Warhammer back so I’m giving it back to them in a cooler form but with LMB spam control and a better stab but it’s slower than the pre-nerf Warhammer because it obviously got nerfed in the first place because it was “OP”. This is meant to be a very effective knight killer if you get up close and I think it will since a double OH or OH-slash will 2HTK knights to the torso. The only problem is getting up close and the reduced speed on the OH. This means that a slash comboed into an OH is probably the best way to use this weapon.

    On a last note, the final thing I wish to ask for is replacing the HWS as a knight secondary for the Warhammer and then putting the Spiked Flail in the current Warhammer’s spot and to mess with the configuration of the select a weapon part in the knight class: move the swords to the top row, the axes tot he second row, the Spiked Flail, Maul, and Grand mace down to the third row, and the Heavy Flail down by itself on the fourth, bottom row but underneath the Spiked Flail and make it so you need 50 kills with the Spiked Flail to unlock the Heavy Flail. So, to a new player if they click on knight it will be in that configuration and for the blunts it will look like a Spiked Flail then to the right of it there will be the Maul that says you need 25 kills with the Spiked Flail to unlock it and then underneath the Spiked Flail there will be the Heavy Flail that says you need 50 kills with the Spiked Flail to unlock, so you need to prove your love for flails. I think you could also do the same thing for the Polehammer, make it so you need 50 kills with the Bardiche to unlock the Polehammer. When you vote in the pole don’t take this last paragraph into consideration, it’s just something I’d like to see and you guys can let me know if you like it too in the comments.

    Let me know what you think about my ideas in the poll and in the comments and don’t forget to add what you think would be better. If you say Yes, but tweaked or No, different in the poll then say in the comments what you would change please.



  • Fixed it. Accidentally disabled BBcode.



  • Does no one care about flail balance ;_;

    I wanted to see what people wanted out of the flails but I guess no one cares.



  • @Jstorm:

    Does no one care about flail balance ;_;

    I wanted to see what people wanted out of the flails but I guess no one cares.

    You have the time.

    And nobody use it because it is not a charismatic weapon.
    I agree, in duel only, but in TO or LST the flail will be … a nuke, i guess.

    Op it, me it famous and then nerf it if it is to much powerfull. Some people will still use it and find new tricks.

    I think you should suggest something else, we can chose the 3 shields with it or we can use the 3 shields for every weapons (1h ofc)



  • I agree that the different flaisl should be given different roles. The spiked flail as anti-vanguard and the heavy flail as anti-knight sounds good.

    Really all I want to be able to do with the flail is swing it around my head like the sling though. Make it so if you hold down mouse 1 you spin it around above your head, the longer you hold it down the more damage you do, to a reasonable limit of course (No 1 shots, etc.)



  • I think the Flails should just bother being more unique in the way it can strike.

    I simply have a problem with it because its a very unique weapon that does not play differently, and randomness just does all the work. In theory, using a flail has a lot of possibilities to trick your opponent. Unfortunately the game offers nothing of that. You can tweak numbers all you want, I don’t find that that makes the weapon interesting, if useful.

    Need to work on capturing the spirit of the flail in the game’s mechanics before balancing it. But thats just my opinion.



  • Flails should have feint replaced with something else, maybe someone has an idea?



  • While the ideas sound okay I am worried of the impact on other weapons. These buffs might shift the balance around making the Heavy Flail dominating the Warhammer. I do not really see problems with the Spiked Flail as it is still shorter than the Morning Star and much slower than the Heavy Water Sprinkler.

    I do not get why you want to move the Warhammer to secondary? I can’t see any benefit. It only robs the Knight some options (for example wielding the Holy Water Sprinkler) and actually hurts the Warhammer as a (perfectly viable) niche weapon as you cannot pick it and a fast cutting weapon at the same time. There should be better ways promoting the Heavy Flail.

    Moving the Flails together with the Warhammer (as heavy onehanded blunt weapons) is actually much better.



  • @Evil:

    While the ideas sound okay I am worried of the impact on other weapons. These buffs might shift the balance around making the Heavy Flail dominating the Warhammer. I do not really see problems with the Spiked Flail as it is still shorter than the Morning Star and much slower than the Heavy Water Sprinkler.

    I do not get why you want to move the Warhammer to secondary? I can’t see any benefit. It only robs the Knight some options (for example wielding the Holy Water Sprinkler) and actually hurts the Warhammer as a (perfectly viable) niche weapon as you cannot pick it and a fast cutting weapon at the same time. There should be better ways promoting the Heavy Flail.

    Moving the Flails together with the Warhammer (as heavy onehanded blunt weapons) is actually much better.

    Well the thing is the Holy Water Sprinkler is not an ideal knight secondary at all, it’s weak and very short that’s the problem it is very fast but when you pick a one handed mace for your secondary the reason you would pick it is to be capable of 3 shotting knights that which the Holy Water Sprinkler is not capable of. It can with head hits but that’s an incovenience on top of the super low reach and 3 shotting MaA when you could pick a slower morningstar that 2 shots MaA and Vgs to the body and 3 shots knights that is very long and has a pretty good interrupter stab. I also just think it would function well as a knight secondary due to the weapon’s properties and it could give sword users another good option for a secondary.


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