Vanguards and Archers: The only thing people are playing.



  • It’s far more frequent that we run into the “we have too many archers” problem.

    Having 6+ archers on offense used to be a rare humourous incident. Now it’s almost the norm.
    I was on a server today where 11/16 offense players had rolled archer 5 minutes into the match. I don’t know whether that’s hilarious, sad or infuriating. Probably all three.

    As for the melee classes, Vanguards are by far the most popular now, with Vanguard numbers not infrequently being equal to the number of Knights and MaA combined… which isn’t that impressive when you realise it isn’t that rare to find yourself in servers with only 1 or 2 people per team brave enough to try to play MaA in TO.



  • Wow, so i’m not the only one that has come to this conclusion eh? The OP’s post was a bit TL;DR, but i agreed with the thread title for sure.



  • I agree with the OP. Trying to play a MAA, it’s nearly impossible to not just trade hits with vanguards. The windup is so short that you’ll never flinch them, so you’re mostly just trading hits. And unfortunately they often 1 hit or 2 hit you. Or they will simply back up while jabbing, and every time you block you get knocked back too far, and you’ll be out of stamina before you ever get a chance to attack. And I know that theoretically the MAA attacks are faster than vanguards, but it rarely seems that way. Once you’re close enough to actually use most MAA weapons, their long weapons hit you just about instantly. And again, it’s damn hard to get close enough in the first place with the massive knockback.



  • There are far more MAAs now than there were at the release of the patch. Some people have finnally learnt how to play?



  • @SushiJaguar:

    While we’re on the subject, could we also take another look at the viability of the decision to add a parry opportunity during weapon recovery? It’s doing nothing but saving spammers from any sort of punishment when they miss their swings.

    I dont know what you call a spammer, but if they click LMB more than once they will combo, and with combo-feint-parry gone they will get punished.

    A guy just swinging once and missing I wouldnt call a spammer…



  • that seems to be the most typical class distribution, sometimes with an extra Knight.

    i was one of the Archers.

    edit: fuck it, i used the right code tag. i can’t be fucking bothered if it don’t work.



  • Can’t resize images on this forum, sadly. Although it works well enough for that image not being resized:

    Although if the end being cut off really irks you you could put it in thumbnail form with [image][/image], although that’s a bit small:
    [image:rfwulatu]http://i.imgur.com/hHNtgbul.jpg?1[/image:rfwulatu]



  • I think its fine.

    Vanguards were always underpowered. Now they compete with the knight. Its refreshing, but if I played vanguard versus myself as a knight. My knight would still win.

    Archers love eating vanguards.

    Nerf coming for archers so I hear on projectile speed.

    Its all fine.



  • thanks dibs. it forced me to resize, actually, because of 700 pixel limit. of course, i later retried with a different link copied from imgur (for smaller size image), so that probalby works without resizing.



  • When were Vanguards underpowered aside from charge being useless? It’s not like you even fucking needed it.

    Oh yeah Charge is still useless after being buffed this patch.



  • Its pretty moronic to say that vanguards used to be ‘underpowered’. They’ve always been a very viable choice in the right hands.



  • Well obviously 1v1 charge is inevitably useless, but in a team format it’s at least moderately powerful now.

    The sword charges are great for executing flanked archers as quickly and easily as possible if you don’t happen to be wielding a Zweihander, and the improved speed makes the polearm/spear charges much more viable for attacking enemies who are engaging teammates.

    Compared to the pre-patch charge it’s a lot more viable.
    Still situational, but the range of situations it’s viable for ha significantly increased. Plus it’s less risky to attempt now, even if you screw it up.



  • guys, take it from an Archer, charge is way too strong. it cannot be flinched, it one hit kills, it stuns and removes all your stamina if you do manage to block it, and you can’t hold your block up to each and every enemy Vanguard in chargable range (which is almost as much as freaking crossbow range)
    and also, there is no recovery parry for archers, for some reason.

    the first time i ever used the Great Sword, i charge killed enemy after enemy. if you’re not able to do the same, something is wrong.

    people really should STOP using duel experiences to tell anything at all about balance. it doesn’t, at all.



  • @gregcau:

    I think its fine.

    Vanguards were always underpowered. Now they compete with the knight. Its refreshing, but if I played vanguard versus myself as a knight. My knight would still win.

    Archers love eating vanguards.

    Nerf coming for archers so I hear on projectile speed.

    Its all fine.

    Remember once upon a time when vanguards were considered OP?



  • @Jstorm:

    @gregcau:

    I think its fine.

    Vanguards were always underpowered. Now they compete with the knight. Its refreshing, but if I played vanguard versus myself as a knight. My knight would still win.

    Archers love eating vanguards.

    Nerf coming for archers so I hear on projectile speed.

    Its all fine.

    Remember once upon a time when vanguards were considered OP?

    You mean the Halberd or before even that?



  • Vanguards and archers.
    They really like each other.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … bRZCwH-e-Q



  • @Deadpan:

    guys, take it from an Archer, charge is way too strong. it cannot be flinched, it one hit kills, it stuns and removes all your stamina if you do manage to block it, and you can’t hold your block up to each and every enemy Vanguard in chargable range (which is almost as much as freaking crossbow range)
    and also, there is no recovery parry for archers, for some reason.

    the first time i ever used the Great Sword, i charge killed enemy after enemy. if you’re not able to do the same, something is wrong.

    people really should STOP using duel experiences to tell anything at all about balance. it doesn’t, at all.

    I’ve never died to a charge attack as an archer. The reaction speed needed to react to a charge is incredibly lenient.

    Cutting you some slack since your join date is July 10th you may be new but if you aren’t you might consider investing time in a new hobby.



  • A little harsh, Musashi, but you’re correct.

    Charge really isn’t OP. It’s situationally useful now that it’s been buffed, but can still be dealt with if you see it coming.

    Unless you’ve got considerable latency issues dying to a charge attack should still be an infrequent occurance.

    It’s still as easy as ever to parry if you’re aware of the Vanguard’s presence.
    It’s not quite as easy as it was before to spin around and parry a charge attack from a Vanguard you didn’t know was there, but if they successfully flank you then you deserve to be hit anyway.

    Charge attacks are in a fairly good place right now. They’re still predictable enough to avoid if you aren’t surprised by it, but powerful and fast enough to make use of when the opportunity arises.



  • yeah, if you use a crossbow, all the enemies are usually to one side, and when they do get close you see them coming, unless you get backstabbed.

    now try using Javelins. almost all my deaths are from charges or friendly fire (or lag warping me off of buildings :x). i also used charge with Great Sword, and it’s just insane. killing is so easy…

    of course, the spear weapons have a rubbish charge, that’s extremely hard to land because of the strange angle of the weapon, making it hard to figure where it will land. but with swords…



  • Getting a tiny bit tired of joining any kind of pub game, and finding around 6+ archers on each team, mostly sub-rank 10s. Literally, most games i’ve played today have been along those lines. Screenshotted a few but didnt save them in the end (thats just petty), but one game had 9 archers on one team in a 24 player game.

    Its just boring. They can hit you with ease because of the projectile speed, and you get mown down from a distance enough times to ruin the gameplay experience - and of course when you get in close: they are utterly defenceless. Sort of fun for a bit chopping them down but… boring, quickly. When the hell are they going to fix the projectile speed?

    I have to laugh whenever I get killed yet again by a sub rank 10 from a rather (previously) respectable distance. This ‘fix’ is taking its sweet time.


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