Rethinking the Regen HP system.



  • Initially when I first started playing I kinda liked the idea of having a regen HP system in the game but the more I’ve played the game the less I like the regen feature and my opinion about the feature has changed to the opposite direction.

    Simply put: Why?
    Why regenerated HP? Why reward a foolish player who’s taking huge chances and risks because he knows that even if he’d be at 10%HP left by the end of a brief combat situation, he knows that he can just hide behind a corner and regain his whole HP back. I fail to see the logic and the positives behind the regeneration system. What good is it for, really? :?

    Here’s few ideas concerning the issue. Removing/altering regen HP system would make ranged weapons a lot more useful than they are right now in the game. Ranged attacks do very little damage right now (except heavy crossbow) since people are almost always on full HP no matter what situation. With disabled regen ranged units could pick out the injured from the rest and target them as they make the most suitable targets and, actually, get some kills they deserve.

    Secondly, people would play a lot smarter than they are right now. If you absolutely know that you aren’t going to heal back the HP you lost, you’d think twice about certain situation.

    Thirdly, if the regeneration system will still be in the game in the future development of this game, atleast issue a heavy treshold for it. If you fall under xx.x% of HP, you can’t heal back. At all. If you are seriously injured and on the brink of death by having multiple wounds on your body, you shouldn’t be able to run around completely unharmed after a short period of time. Saying “Tis a scratch, nothing but a flesh wound!” wouldn’t do it anymore.

    To me something between 30-40%HP would be good amount. If you let your HP fall down below 40%, you can’t regain it. If you’ve only taken few minor hits, 40-99% HP left, nothing deadly and nothing serious, a little rest would fill your HP bar.



  • As a bonus:

    Bleeding to death.
    If you fall under ~15% from a slashing attack from an axe / sword and you don’t have the best armour on and depending where the hit connected to, bleeding to death would be a great addition to the game. You’d know that you couldn’t hide and run forever which would create interesting scenarios and add a hint of realism and strategic planning into the game.



  • It’s far to frustrating to win a fight, then have 20% HP and know the only thing you can do now is die, while the other guy has 100% HP.

    That’s why it’s there. Though I agree, it could regen slower. Maybe have it take 10-15 seconds before you start to regen, without combat.



  • There’s a very simple reason why regeneration is in the game.

    In AoC, there was initially no health regeneration, because the developers think the same way you do - damage should be permanent and have permanent consequences.

    But then a problem arose. Players realized damage wasn’t permanent - because you respawn. Do you know what this led to? The strategy for playing defense in a competitive clanwar was that after you successful repel an enemy attack, anyone on your team who took damage immediately suicides and respawns so that you won’t be weakened for the next attack.

    If you don’t see why this took place, it’s because you haven’t experienced organized gameplay on objective maps yet. In random pubs such as the current beta servers, players just run in rambo style and don’t ever work together as a team except coincidentally, even if someone is trying to get people organized to make a proper push. This is also why offense very rarely wins objective maps at the moment, or even makes it past the first objective unless teams are very stacked.

    In an organized game where the whole team is making that push together, you don’t want any players to be at low health when the fight starts. It’s a no-brainer deciding which way to go when the choices are either encouraging mass suicides in your game or adding health regeneration. Slow down, limit, or remove the health regeneration from Chivalry, and it’ll have the same problem in clan wars that old AoC did.



  • @SlyGoat:

    There’s a very simple reason why regeneration is in the game.

    In AoC, there was initially no health regeneration, because the developers think the same way you do - damage should be permanent and have permanent consequences.

    But then a problem arose. Players realized damage wasn’t permanent - because you respawn. Do you know what this led to? The strategy for playing defense in a competitive clanwar was that after you successful repel an enemy attack, anyone on your team who took damage immediately suicides and respawns so that you won’t be weakened for the next attack.

    If you don’t see why this took place, it’s because you haven’t experienced organized gameplay on objective maps yet. In random pubs such as the current beta servers, players just run in rambo style and don’t ever work together as a team except coincidentally, even if someone is trying to get people organized to make a proper push. This is also why offense very rarely wins objective maps at the moment, or even makes it past the first objective unless teams are very stacked.

    In an organized game where the whole team is making that push together, you don’t want any players to be at low health when the fight starts. It’s a no-brainer deciding which way to go when the choices are either encouraging mass suicides in your game or adding health regeneration. Slow down, limit, or remove the health regeneration from Chivalry, and it’ll have the same problem in clan wars that old AoC did.

    I don’t think it explains all, you can think of ten more simple mechanics encircling that problem better.
    You can ensure that they won’t by making a respawn time penalty for anyone who suicides, so people in clan war will prefer fighting to death from a suicide that will make their team less numerous (worse situation).
    I didn’t think a lot to find this one, I am sure that there is plenty of solutions possible more appropriate than making HP regen on.
    I suspect the devs to have made HP regen like a compromise to attract all categories of players (like the name Medieval Warfare suggests so, Call of duty is health regen friendly after all).



  • Yes, I was saddened by the name change.

    When I saw it…

    I knew…they were going to add alot of CoD like things…and they ended up doing so, oh well, it is still a product they are trying to sell, so they can rape it all they want.



  • Still, if people would remain with 15-20 hp they would suicide no matter how long it took to respawn, better with 100 hp in 1 minute than 15 hp now.

    And concidering how fragile you’re in the game, I mean dieing so fast and you may even die by random archer arrows, adding to that the fact that health regens after you stop fighting, it’s not annoying, it actually adds to the game so good players can survive longer.



  • @SlyGoat:

    But then a problem arose. Players realized damage wasn’t permanent - because you respawn. Do you know what this led to? The strategy for playing defense in a competitive clanwar was that after you successful repel an enemy attack, anyone on your team who took damage immediately suicides and respawns so that you won’t be weakened for the next attack.

    The thing I don’t understand is why would any clan fight should be contested under the Objective mode. To me it’s all about Battle/Last Team Standing, hence you wouldn’t need the regen at all since you won’t respawn until a team wins/loses as it’s members are dead within that round. Also a simple addition to the ‘then- clan wars rules’ which would have resolved the issue is that you are forbidden to respawn intentionally, it’s that simple. :|



  • Well, there was no LTS in Age of Chivalry, and generally Deathmatch and LTS matches do not demand such teamwork as objective maps.

    If you’d do a deathmatch clanwar and then an objective mode clanwar you’d see that the later demands way more teamwork and coordination between clan members.



  • @-Slash-:

    Well, there was no LTS in Age of Chivalry, and generally Deathmatch and LTS matches do not demand such teamwork as objective maps.

    If you’d do a deathmatch clanwar and then an objective mode clanwar you’d see that the later demands way more teamwork and coordination between clan members.

    Team Deathmatch is even worse gamemode than Objective, thus I didn’t even mention it. Clans, in any game, should only do LTS type of battles to find out their pecking order. Surely Obj. mode requires teamwork but I wouldn’t say that it does more/less so than LTS. LTS fights can also be very, very tactical and demanding.



  • No one stops you from doing an LTS :P

    But, this game has great objective maps, that are very competitive, so they are worth it.

    And tbh, covering your teammates that push a ram/cart/whatever is more teamwork than just moving together to kill other groups.

    EDIT: Team objective modes give you the chance to do formations and shield walls to defend stuff.



  • @sadnhappy:

    To me it’s all about…

    Yes, to you.



  • hp regen is definitley needed trust me or htis will all just be a big dps fuck up. age of chivalry was prty close to a good game cause it had hp regen (after the last patch at least) i have like 400 hours of expirience there im a member of the Trf clan and i never ever saw somebody suiciding in a clanwar no matter how low the hp was, just because the slow hp regen. and the fact that some runners might just budge in and randomly win the objective

    the hp regen should be settled down just a tick not as much as aoc but just a bit, aswell as respawning in objective maps should take waaaay longer (15 seconds if u killed 1 or more 30 seconds if u didnt deal any dmg).Improtant: on both sides just cause of the satisfaction of gaining ground if u just killed a bunch of dudes damnit



  • @Holy_Teal:

    I don’t think it explains all, you can think of ten more simple mechanics encircling that problem better.
    You can ensure that they won’t by making a respawn time penalty for anyone who suicides, so people in clan war will prefer fighting to death from a suicide that will make their team less numerous (worse situation).
    I didn’t think a lot to find this one, I am sure that there is plenty of solutions possible more appropriate than making HP regen on.
    I suspect the devs to have made HP regen like a compromise to attract all categories of players (like the name Medieval Warfare suggests so, Call of duty is health regen friendly after all).

    That isn’t a solution. It just ensures the attacking team will win the map because every fight they make progress even if they were completely wiped out without killing one person. In fact, in that case the BEST strategy would be to wound everyone on the enemy team and intentionally leave them alive, so that your next push will be a sure winner.

    I’m not even going to discuss objective mode vs. last team standing. Other competitive games on the market right now don’t have dynamic and competitive objectives, not to mention objectives are far less interesting with gun combat because everyone is usually dead before you reach the objective, so it’s really just TDM/elimination with a twist. Until you’ve played in an AoC/Chivalry clanwar you won’t understand the huge difference between organizing a team to just kill the other guys and organizing a team to complete or defend an objective at any cost.



  • @Wingy:

    @sadnhappy:

    To me it’s all about…

    Yes, to you.

    And to a lot of others players too, not just me.

    Even with all these replys I still haven’t a good answer to my original question of “Why?”. So here’s my suggestion:

    Make it optional.
    A server admin should have the option to enable/disable regeneration. Any good developer will give the players a number of server options so that they can mold their servers to their liking. It should be relatively easy to put a regeneration = 0 / 1 into the system files, surely. 8-)

    Also the cap of injury would be a good improvement. By that I mean my suggestion of not being able to regenerate if you fall down below a certain % of HP.



  • What do you mean you didn’t get a good answer?

    What better answer do you require than this that Slygoat gave you, that it doesn’t promote exploiting game mechanics in order to be competitive, simple as that.

    And he’s talking from experience.



  • @-Slash-:

    What do you mean you didn’t get a good answer?

    What better answer do you require than this that Slygoat gave you, that it doesn’t promote exploiting game mechanics in order to be competitive, simple as that.

    And he’s talking from experience.

    The answer Sly gave only applies to Objective mode, not to other modes. Also like I said that original problem (TK’ing to get full HP team in Obj map) could have been prevented in a number of ways like 1.) making the objectives to be far away from spawns so that the enemy team would get there before the suicide unit 2.) Increase respawn time 3.) add severe penalties to teamkills. Like for every teamkill you’d give your opponent x number of instaspawns and so on. EDIT: 4.) Add it to the competitive scene rules that intentional team kills would result into a huge penalty.

    If you want to get your HP back, create a medic unit.

    I’d like nothing more than a really good, hardcore & skilled competitive scene in Chivalry. Enabling auto-regen will seriously hinder the ‘competitiveness’ of it I fear. You should be punished for taking hits, not rewarding running away and hide to get back your full HP.

    EDIT2: Disabling regeneration would also favour the light armoured units of the game and nerf the almight Knight which has extra HP and extra armour compared to others. Knights can sustain multiple time the hits the lighter units can and thus gets the extra advantage of the regeneration system, that the other classes clearly do not, which is totally unfair.

    I rest my case.



  • OK we’ll agree to disagree.

    One thing though, no one said that you get tk’ed, you just press the suicide button :p



  • @-Slash-:

    OK we’ll agree to disagree.

    One thing though, no one said that you get tk’ed, you just press the suicide button :p

    TK’d, suicide, doesn’t change a thing. Easily punishable in game modes / clan rules.



  • EDIT2: Disabling regeneration would also favour the light armoured units of the game and nerf the almight Knight which has extra HP and extra armour compared to others. Knights can sustain multiple time the hits the lighter units can and thus gets the extra advantage of the regeneration system, that the other classes clearly do not, which is totally unfair.

    I rest my case.

    That is an advantage I do agree, but many people forget that light classes have a built-in advantage too.
    Let’s say both are balanced when it comes to pure combat, light vs heavy is an even match.
    Now if the heavy survives, he gets to benefit from regen more…
    But if he dies, he gets to take more time to reach the battlefield.
    (For instance : a 1v1 objective map : if the heavy defeats the light, he gains much less ground than when the light defeats the heavy because the light wastes less time travelling).

    On topic :
    A game without health regen is boring.
    Now I do not know how it feels in the Beta to have the current HP regen, but I can tell you some of the things that will happen if it gets removed (this is to add to the Goat’s points about team objective):

    • people are encouraged to just act as ravens and only pick fights where they can get out losing the least possible health
    • people are drawed from deciding willingly to attract the ennemy’s blows to help teammates do their work better
    • people are encouraged to be cowards and flee whenever they see anyone while at low health (because one blow/projectile and you’re out), and thus are absolutely of no use to their team until they decide to fight (crow like or brave death and respawn)
    • objective based maps become absolutely stalemate machines : no one can push / defend as each time you slay a wave of ennemies, you are de-powered and would not stand the next blow, thus entering in a teamA-push-die-teamB-defend-kill-push-die-TeamAdefend-kill…

    BUT the most important thing to notice here is (like someone else said) it IS NOT FUN :
    Bleeding to death is the worst possible direction for this : you kill your ennemy and die the same as him and the same as if you had been the first to pass out, thus discouraging people to fight battles that are not sure to win.
    It is not fun to win fights and then after a long while be less powerful than the guy you killed that just respawned.