Bearded Axe Balance



  • Hello Lords and Ladies, Atreides here.

    During this weekend I decided to get my hands to the dreaded Bearded Axe to fully realize how ridiculous it was.

    Boy I was not disapointed. This thing is a chopping machine.

    The axe has good damage, insane speed on the overhead, but the real deal is that you can really abuse game mechanics to transform you into a automated chopping machine.

    See for yourself

    tl_QHBf7iqo

    Quite fast aye? As soon as I connect a hit, and provided I don’t hit the floor which would prevent me from comboing, I immedialty combo and then I cancel my combo, and launch an overhead immediately after. You have your super attack

    This second attack can be blocked but there is a difference between possibility and parrying rate. It is FAST, and you have to know the opponent is going to do it to properly parry it.
    If you don’t you are almost assured to eat the second strike. On top of that it can desync the attack as you saw in the video. (~0.29 sec of the video)

    Right now in the game if you feint your attack at the last second, or almost at the same time as the release of the weapon, your attack animation become desync, or sometimes ghost.

    The weapon becomes of course worse when you feint, whether it is at the beginning, during your combo or after. In this patch you can much more easily see feints it requires a clear head and training. But try to have a clear head when you know fast strikes from the mad chopper are coming fast and two shot you (knights also if one hit hits the head)

    We wanted to do this video to raise the awareness about this weapon. You do feel like a chop machine. It does not guarantee victory every time (try to hit a good MAA with it, or a spear vanguard) but it quite does help you a lot.

    Something MUST be done to fix this. I confess I do not have a solution, but I guess you have to know an issue before solving it.

    Atreides



  • The cons out-weight the pros. Mostly the bad range on it.

    Sure, you can do the combo-feinting trick with this weapon, but it sure eats up a lot of stamina.

    It’s supposed to be fast, and its supposed to be a decent anti-knight weapon. The overheads are really the only good thing about it.



  • The cons out-weight the pros. Mostly the bad range on it.

    There is a reason this weapon was considered unfair and cheesy to use in competitive matches BEFORE the patch came out. i.e without the increased speed the last patch put in place.

    Sure, you can do the combo-feinting trick with this weapon, but it sure eats up a lot of stamina.

    Combo Feint : 15 stamina
    (source: http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15284&start=20)

    15 stamina is cost effective for the damage / pressure it applies.

    Let me explain better the details of the bearded balance:

    • The weapon speed itself : It is not the core of the issue, even though, it helps immensly for dragging and combo feinting
    • The combo feint and attack: that’s what cause the issue. In theory the combo feint use is possible for any weapon, but with the bearded, (due to the weapon release I guess), it creates the aforeshowed chopping effect.
    • The desync issue: Issue related to the latest patch between feint and release.


  • @Atréides:

    Let me explain better the details of the bearded balance:

    • The weapon speed itself : It is not the core of the issue, even though, it helps immensly for dragging and combo feinting

    High speed helps with dragging? Dragging the bearded axe? :?



  • Balance don’t apply to the bearded axe :-)



  • @Atréides:

    The cons out-weight the pros. Mostly the bad range on it.

    There is a reason this weapon was considered unfair and cheesy to use in competitive matches BEFORE the patch came out. i.e without the increased speed the last patch put in place.

    @ibih8x5c:

    Sure, you can do the combo-feinting trick with this weapon, but it sure eats up a lot of stamina.

    Combo Feint : 15 stamina
    (source: http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15284&start=20)

    15 stamina is cost effective for the damage / pressure it applies.

    Let me explain better the details of the bearded balance:

    • The weapon speed itself : It is not the core of the issue, even though, it helps immensly for dragging and combo feinting
    • The combo feint and attack: that’s what cause the issue. In theory the combo feint use is possible for any weapon, but with the bearded, (due to the weapon release I guess), it creates the aforeshowed chopping effect.
    • The desync issue: Issue related to the latest patch between feint and release.

    It wasn’t increased in speed the windups on the OH and slash were slowed by .05 and the releases were made faster by .05



  • Bearded axe has awful range and a longish windup. Use that against it and it is pretty easy to beat.

    Excellent pub-stomp weapon though.



  • Bearded axe windup is .475 and combo is .75 - feint cooldown is .2 for twohanders. So an INSTANT combo feint is a .675 windup, only .075 faster than a combo, for 15 stamina. Not an insignificant increase, but not an enormous one either considering the cost.

    The bearded axe’s true strength, IMO, lies in its fast windup with LATE combo feints. Because the combo is slow and the windup is so fast, people will very often parry early during your combo and give you an easy followup after a feint.

    Smart play can keep the bearded axe from even getting in striking distance though, it’s a very short reaching weapon, especially when you’re accelerating your overheads.



  • If you are having trouble playing against the bearded axe, choose a spear weapon. That should sort that out, of course it may put you in another a difficult position for other weapons. The spears are pretty good combined with feints.



  • Bearded is basically a one handed weapon. Treating it as a two hander will get you killed.



  • Bearded Axe is Satan. I’m still not really sure how to beat a experienced Bearded Foe 1v1 in a Frontal Confrontation, however I’ve found and learned that when you see him winding up… you can infact ‘GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE’! You simply run away from his swing.

    Seriously, I just try run away and as he is recovering or, infact still swinging his weapon I have an opportunity to give him a tasty overhead!

    ORRRRR sneak up on him when he is fighting your pals :D

    Yeah IDK what to make of this weapon tbh lol.



  • Don’t get hit by it and you’ll be right?



  • clearly its best matchup is another bearded axe!

    a9ePVObIDgA



  • Ninja Cub ties that whole video together.



  • @DokB:

    Don’t get hit by it and you’ll be right?

    Yes…. but sometimes you cant avoid it. Rofl. I’ll let someone else decide if the weapon should be left in this current state :D



  • Hello, I’m Laux from Fat Frogs clan. I helped Atreides by making that small video.
    My english is far to be perfect, but i’ll try to do my best.

    I played 550 hours of Chivalry : I’ve never seen combos as fast as the bearded. Some weapons can actually instant hit, the bearded axe is one of them, but there isn’t any weapon able to combo as fast.

    On the other hand, bearded axe has a hard damage pool.
    A lot of high players don’t play the bearded, considering it as a joke. Some clans refused to play against that weapon, some time ago, because of an attack speed glitch (actually working with every weapon, but far more interesting with that weapon). Now a large group of players is able to counter it, but imo that does not mean that weapon is balanced.

    The speed and damage pool is so high, that at very closed range, you cannot do anything else than parry, because you will be insta hit. You can’t even see if it’s a feint or not, at very close range. Stick to someone then try. You push the key, the other is hit directly, at the same time. Is the knight a comic book super hero, capable of hit before rise his axe?

    The funny think is about range : Yes, it has a poor range. But almost every high level team fight melees are at close range : the 2h swords knights/vangards will try to stick to manage their stab or fast overhead, the maa will try to stick too. Eventually the spear vangard will try long range, but in a melee, he spends a lot of time unfortunatly at close range.

    Actually, that weapon is not a wise choice for a knight in a TO game because he can be feinted (he won’t have a shield) and he won’t have any protection against archers. It’s not a good weapon against several ennemies, so it’s not really usefull.

    In my opinion, 0 weapons should be able to instant hit at very closed range. It’s not 0.2 secs, nor 0.1, it’s instant. You push the key, it hits the other. Where is the fun? Do you think there is a trade of gameplay between the two players?

    This is not a chivalry medieval warfare weapon, it becomes a role playing game instant hit special weapon. Or a fisher price toy weapon. “whouhou, I can instant hit, the other don’t even see the animation when I’m sticked !”. I’m suprised that some players could find it normal : “Yes, the bearded can insta hit at the closed range release, but it’s ok I can handle it.”

    I agree with most of your posts. That weapon is not that dangerous, for a experimented player.
    But that weapon is ridiculous. Play with the newbies at the free week ends, they will tell you one thing, when they will see that weapon in action : “what the f… ?”

    It affects the immersive side of the game. A 2h axe, faster that any weapon (even a shot sword, or smaller). It feels like a broken weapon in a game, or a private joke weapon. I’m pretty sure almost every player found that weapon curious the first time they took an overhead spam in melee.

    Maybe something could be done, in my opinion. At least, if players are okay with a fisher price ultra fast heavy two hand weapon, the stats annonced by the game about the speed should be changed. It is wrong.

    EDIT : by “very closed range” I mean “to be sticked to the ennemy”.



  • It often has the issue of making other players appear to swing faster than they should be able to.

    When I look at my own bearded axe swinging animations in first or third person (locally) it does not seem as fast as when I see other players using it. Some worse than others. Even the overhead-combo-feint-overhead move looks fast but smooth and readable at my end, whereas it looks teleporty when other players do it.

    I think that’s generally a problem with fast weapons and online play.



  • I agree.



  • Might as well post this here too.

    @Falc:

    I have seen so much complaining about fast weapons in here, but I can’t remember the last time I have seen a Bearded Axe in a scrim.

    I think that means it’s time for a weapon re-work. It’s speed clearly doesn’t make up for it’s short range in high play, while it does make it crazy cheap for lower skill levels.

    What can be done about the Bearded to make it viable and not super cheap?



  • @BB:

    Might as well post this here too.

    @Falc:

    I have seen so much complaining about fast weapons in here, but I can’t remember the last time I have seen a Bearded Axe in a scrim.

    I think that means it’s time for a weapon re-work. It’s speed clearly doesn’t make up for it’s short range in high play, while it does make it crazy cheap for lower skill levels.

    What can be done about the Bearded to make it viable and not super cheap?

    Does it bother anyone else that the main reason for rebalancing these days is “it’s not used enough” or “it’s used too much?” I get the idea, but this alone isn’t enough to warrant balancing in either direction.

    On topic: this weapon is excellent for hit-trading. Unless you’re hit trading something that will 2 shot you. If you can time the hit trades well you will be unstoppable.


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