One handers are still supreme



  • Face hug a knight with dagger and you win. Something is amiss.

    I think everyone feels this way right?



  • The knight face hugging power is even greater than that : he can close up on you without having to care about dodging hits since he can absorb so much. Then he just spam his hammer/mace/any one handed on you.



  • Well with the unlockables available now there are at least some decent options for twohanders. The bearded and pole axe are both much better than the double axe, and the claymore is IMO superior to the other 2handed swords. Plus all the spears are relatively quick and strong, and the billhook and halberd are relatively good as well. Same with the Sword of War and the Messer. (The twohanded blunts are pretty bad though)

    On the other side of the coin, I don’t feel the unlockable axes or maces are as good as the hatchet and flanged mace. The falchion is much stronger than the broadsword but still no mace/hatchet. But of course the cudgel puts the archer up to par with men-at-arms in melee minus the dodge. I can’t help but feel the cudgel is, speaking in relative terms, the most overpowered weapon in the game at the moment. It’s so significantly stronger than the other archer melee weapons because of its blunt damage and incredible spam speed. It’s still not quite a mace, but I’ll take it over the holy water sprinkler 9 times out of 10 (though maybe not if the holy water’s knockback didn’t force enemies out of your attack range after every hit)



  • Everyone always complains about face hugging, but face huggers, and spammers are seriously the easiest people to deal with… they are highly counterable… Just learn your maneuvers ( kick for example ) and you will deal with them in no time… " Spamming " attacks is just something that is going to happen in a slasher, so deal with it…



  • I’m not sure you are playing the same game as we are. Currently slash spam in most cases counters shove, not the other way around.

    There’s also something wrong with blocking attacks if the opponent is in direct contact with you, but I can’t precisely describe the nature of this problem yet. Will need to do some more testing.



  • I mostly use one-handers and I will probably fit into the category of facehuggers but I wouldnt say that it’s op in anyway. It’s just a question of the way you move in-game and how you counter. A lot of one-handers move zig-zag to make their second swing hit your side as they turn. Counter by blocking and kicking and then follow up by a stab or overhead. NOT slash since it’s easy to dodge at that point.

    There’s lots of players who often use 2-handers successfully. VOID Kuzen is one guy on the EU-servers that always play extremely good using the 2h-axe.

    Once the game gets more established I am sure you can find some videos to use as tutorials.



  • Why dont you record a couple of videos, using the double axe/maul/pole axe, I always like your footage, and that last video you posted shows that youre greatly improved, you were great with that Sword of War !



  • I am playing the same game… Slash spammers even if they hug your face are easy to counter… Ask any good player. Spammers have a rhythm that is easy to cut through and they are often bad at timing… Sometimes if they hit you first they can get the best of you because you get thrown off of your rhythm and start parrying 1 second off correct beat, when your parry gets thrown off, the spam will kill you because if you parry one second early, your gaurd will go down right when the next swing comes in contact…

    So you just have to watch the timing, and get around their defense… its very easy… The people that kill me are the people that vary their attacks, it throws you off the most… Not the swing spammers… Just ask Tibbs, other than being the lead dev, he is the best at the game, and everytime I see him get a kill or kill me, he is NOT slash spamming…



  • @Alpha:

    There’s also something wrong with blocking attacks if the opponent is in direct contact with you, but I can’t precisely describe the nature of this problem yet. Will need to do some more testing.

    It’s because of the way the swing traces come in. “Keep the tip of the weapon in the center of your view” because the damage traces start at the tip. The problem is when someone is humping you, the tip of their weapon is clipping through your model and so you get hit in the back. So the only way to block these attacks is to turn 180 degrees and block… so yeah, it’s counterable, but is it a good mechanic?



  • You don’t have to do a 180 turn to block face huggers.
    When they start there swing parry it before it goes through your character model…



  • @k9j60:

    You don’t have to do a 180 turn to block face huggers.
    When they start there swing parry it before it goes through your character model…

    ? I don’t think you understand. They’re already in your face when they start swinging, either because they turtled their way there with blocks or they dodged in and then swung. The damage starts behind you. You can’t parry a hit to your back while aiming at the front. You can try for a kick, but it’s about 50/50 whether your kick will hit or you’ll just be flinched out of it and die.


  • Developer

    Slygoat I think you have a distorted perception of how the blocking mechanics work. The reason you need to turn when up close with someone is because the length of their arm allows them to turn and hit you in the back, to counter this you need to turn 45 degrees or more in some instances, not 180.



  • They have to start the swing at some point no matter how close to your face they are, and when they start it, their animation starts from the side they are going to hit you from… That’s when you parry it, and there are super effective counters to face huggers because they are so close, you can counter instantly… For example if a face hugger hits me once with a swing combo, as his second hit comes from my far left, I pivot block left then overhead from the left to the right and it makes almost instant contact… I get most of my kills from counters, kicks arent the only way… There are more effective swings from different sides when you parry, like parry right then a quick stab will take em out… You can also duck counter.

    I understand what you mean by being very close to where you cant see their weapon, but like I said each swing has a start, and that’s when you stop it.



  • I was being a bit hyperbolic about turning 180 degrees. The point is the degree to which you have to turn to block hits up close just seems very counterintuitive, not to mention awkward. You sometimes have to turn far enough that you can no longer see the enemy on your screen - particularly in the case of the warhammer. Meanwhile he can follow through with the attack or feint it, miss intentionally and hit you from the other side with his combo, circle behind you while you turn to block and hit you anyway, etc. All of these things require extremely different reactions - and against a fast weapon you often don’t have time to adjust your response.

    Basically, being in close like that gives every advantage to the guy with the faster weapon, but it’s so easy to get there with current movement speeds and of course the MaA’s dodge that the longer, slower weapons don’t feel capable of keeping enemies at a distance. So while the options for getting in close are obvious and numerous, the ones for getting someone away once they’re hugging you are pretty much restricted to kicking (which can be flinched, and leaves to extremely vulnerable if you miss it), or sometimes jumping and hoping their weapon knockback sends you out of range (this is pretty much my tactic for dealing with maces now in particular - jump back and parry). Even if you figure out that you have to turn to the side to block the attack and make a successfully parry, which is definitely not obvious to 90% of players right now, it’s hard to switch to the offensive because you’re still in the short range weapon’s zone of dominance - and the longer you stay on defense the more likely you’ll finally make a mistake, miss a parry, fall for a feint, etc.

    And I realize it’s a complex issue without a simple fix, because the larger weapons are already easier to land hits with and make much wider swings making them far stronger in your typical 32 player game of people new to the genre - simply making the slow weapons stronger will exacerbate that, and if they’re made too strong the exact opposite problem arises where it’s impossible to get in range with a short weapon, which would be even more frustrating. And I don’t know how/if a more appropriate solution could be implemented so close to release, with balance obviously being quite secondary to optimization and polish.

    My primary concern, and really all I expect, is that adjustments be made in response to overwhelming feedback like this - there’ve been numerous threads all centered around different facets of basically the same issue, fast weapons being generally superior to slow ones. It’s easy enough to tone down anything that’s nerfed or improved too much, especially during beta when people don’t expect the game to be balanced. Chivalry’s arsenal is huge, and it’ll take a long time to bring it close to a balanced level, but the sooner changes are made to things that are perceived to be problematic, especially when the perception is as pervasive as in this case, the faster the process will be in the end. Balance might end up screwed up even more in the meantime, but it’s progress vs. stagnation.



  • How about change the Knight/Vanguard’s kick to knock back enemies further + not be flinched at all (but use up stamina).

    This could help to counter face huggers without upsetting the weapon balance perhaps?



  • I think the kick just needs to be more reliable as to when it actually works. Often I hit the key and nothing happens, a slight range increase on it would also be welcome.

    As for flinching, I think that is the main problem with 2handers against 1handers. You can’t get an attack out against a competant opponent.



  • While we’re on the subject of kicks - I think the kick hit area needs to be extended slightly further below you. Right now it’s actually almost impossible to kick someone who’s on a lower elevation than you are. That, or add a low-kick if you kick while crouching, and a downwards kick if you kick while jumping.



  • @SlyGoat:

    While we’re on the subject of kicks - I think the kick hit area needs to be extended slightly further below you. Right now it’s actually almost impossible to kick someone who’s on a lower elevation than you are. That, or add a low-kick if you kick while crouching, and a downwards kick if you kick while jumping.

    This I agree with.

    But on the subject at hand. One handers can easily rambo the enemy by multipe hits to the head in quick succession. I can do that too, though latly I have been using polearms. I found that there was two eneimes I had problems with that was man at arms and vangard with polearm.

    To defeat the man at arms I noticed that the blocking needed to be much more precise to be successful. You need to block at the last few 0.1 secs’s when the strike is about to hit you. This is likely because of the ping and fast weapon speed. BUT its completely possible to block them and then kick them back or stab back.

    This is how I do it: (This is for the heavier classes and weapons)
    Always try to keep them so far away they cant hit you, move backwards and to the sides.
    Watch for him to stirke first, watch the end of the blade -block then kick or move backwards in the little space you gain.
    If you gain enough space counter attack with a stab and try to not let him get close. He will back off or try to get closer. When he is moving closer he often makes a mistake, that’s your change get in a good hit.

    If you do this they wont be able to rambo you, the hardest part is to stay calm and wait for the blow and block at the right time.

    I have played for about 17 hours now in the beta. I often get on the top of the list. I would reccommend learning all the main weapon types so you know how to counter them.



  • maybe increasing the vangaurds kick would MAYBE help… But taking away faint completely from him would throw the game WAY off balance.



  • I dont see a problem with the balance.
    Its not that easy to block or kick the face hugger, but its possible and with the right movement the attacker with 1h weapon has no advantage. The face hugger needs to hit every strike or he is dead if you do it right. And the knights and vanguards should not forget to use their secondary. They arent useless like in aoc. Because then its dodging ability vs hp and that is fair.
    (sry for my english)


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