Archers have been buffed more than we think.



  • And this is a serious problem. I am no longer finding team games enjoyable because roughly 1/2 my lives are completely ruined by archers (I’m either killed or I’m taken to very low health, or they flinch me during a fight and cause my death). I’m basically on the verge of quitting.

    Now, apart from an increase in crossbow projectile speed, archers received no significant direct buffs in the patch. The accidental buff they received has been fixed. Yet the fact is that they are far more of a problem now than before the patch, because the following changes make archers stupidly difficult to deal with:

    • Facehug bubble, and fixing of lookdown overhead. These are, of course, great additions to the game in general, but it does make it easier for archers to block melee attacks.

    • Removal of chase bonus. This is the big one. Knights and vanguards have lost a good 20% of their speed in melee combat with archers. As a result it is much easier for the archers to block their attacks, since they come at them much slower.

    • Blocking attacks drains less stamina. Nuff said.

    Now don’t get me wrong, archers are still very beatable in 1v1. But 1v1 was never the issue. The problem is that because of the changes listed above, it is not difficult to parry attacks. And as an archer, that’s all you need to do so that your teammates can kill the enemy for you.

    At the moment, feinting really looks like the only option.



  • Pathetic thread, really, complaining about archer in melee combat now.

    Removal of chase bonus. This is the big one. Knights and vanguards have lost a good 20% of their speed in melee combat with archers. As a result it is much easier for the archers to block their attacks, since they come at them much slower.

    Stop thinking about your personal interest, think about the balance in general, sure you can’t facehug like an idiot anymore cause you don’t have the super speed bonus with the slowest class, but this shit have to be fix, it’s make no sense that the slowest class can become the fastest because of this mechanics, they attack with their intented speed and it’s fine ……



  • So your complaining that you can’t kill archers as easily because you can’t (almost) insta-hit them with overhead? If that was the only way you dealt with archers before patch, then I am sorry.



  • I play spear vanguard primarily and before the hotfix, I was getting annihilated by archers. Now with the fix in I’m finding myself more than capable in killing them in a team setting. I personally feel that the projectile speed fix brought the archer class back into the spectrum of balance again.

    Also as a primary spear user, I never, ever use feints against the enemy (never have and never will) and I am still capable of killing archers in team games.



  • @Sidewinder:

    I play spear vanguard primarily and before the hotfix, I was getting annihilated by archers. Now with the fix in I’m finding myself more than capable in killing them in a team setting. I personally feel that the projectile speed fix brought the archer class back into the spectrum of balance again.

    Also as a primary spear user, I never, ever use feints against the enemy (never have and never will) and I am still capable of killing archers in team games.

    Really? I feel like this patch made vanguards much, much easier for me. Javelins are faster across the board which means more spear chucking against you poor fellas.

    That said, spear users are the most difficult thing for me to fight when it comes to vanguards. That knockback makes closing the distance a nightmare for us.



  • The fix to lookdown overheads was merely making it so that for the most part, weapons don’t start within your opponent’s body. They just gave vertical turn speed a cap like the one that has always existed for horizontal turn speed. Lookdowns are still very powerful when you mix them in with normal overheads to throw off people’s timings.



  • Okay some of the responses to this have been, frankly, childish and idiotic. For instance:

    @XGCForsakend:

    So your complaining that you can’t kill archers as easily because you can’t (almost) insta-hit them with overhead? If that was the only way you dealt with archers before patch, then I am sorry.

    I didn’t actually say that I used lookdown overhead. I have always in fact gone to special effort not to do so. I was talking in general terms.

    Stop thinking about your personal interest, think about the balance in general, sure you can’t facehug like an idiot anymore cause you don’t have the super speed bonus with the slowest class, but this shit have to be fix, it’s make no sense that the slowest class can become the fastest because of this mechanics, they attack with their intented speed and it’s fine ……

    Again, stupid post. My point was that although archers did not get directly buffed, the changes which were implemented - which do make the game much better - seem to have failed to take into account how they would impact archer combat. I am suggesting that archers have benefited most from these changes - what has become undeniably easier since the patch is parrying and defensive play. This is all an archer needs. Therefore the archer received the biggest benefit. See the logic?



  • There are servers with limited number of archers or disabled archer entirely, you should check them out.



  • I have no problem coming up behind enemy lines and paving my way through all the team’s archers. Some of them give me a hard time, but it’s easy for an archer in melee to make a mistake.



  • i let you take a look from our point of view,we have less range in weapons,less damage,less health,less armor,also in this game you don’t lose stamina for sprinting so you can charge us as much as you want and we depend alot from our melee in our team.
    Against 2 melee we have no chance unless they are lower ranks and less experienced.
    Maybe we were already weaker than other classes before the patch that why we got a buff.



  • @Bloodhead:

    • Facehug bubble, and fixing of lookdown overhead. These are, of course, great additions to the game in general, but it does make it easier for archers to block melee attacks.

    • Removal of chase bonus. This is the big one. Knights and vanguards have lost a good 20% of their speed in melee combat with archers. As a result it is much easier for the archers to block their attacks, since they come at them much slower.

    You got it backwards on both of these. Archers were the #1 facehug abusers in the game pre-patch; primarily they could win melee fights by getting so close that the enemy couldn’t see short sword attacks properly. Not only is that much less likely now, but it’s also harder to hit enemies with such weapons because the bubble makes it more difficult to keep in range.

    The chase bonus nerf also hurts archers more than knights and vanguards. Normally, they do want to stay far away from you as they can. However, once you get close enough that they need to pull out their melee weapon, now their goal is to get as close to you as possible as fast as possible, so they can facehug attack as said previously. With you facing them, they no longer get that sudden speed boost, so any sudden lunge that would barely hit and flinch you pre-patch now will miss and you can properly remove their heads.



  • @RushSecond:

    @Bloodhead:

    • Facehug bubble, and fixing of lookdown overhead. These are, of course, great additions to the game in general, but it does make it easier for archers to block melee attacks.

    • Removal of chase bonus. This is the big one. Knights and vanguards have lost a good 20% of their speed in melee combat with archers. As a result it is much easier for the archers to block their attacks, since they come at them much slower.

    You got it backwards on both of these. Archers were the #1 facehug abusers in the game pre-patch; primarily they could win melee fights by getting so close that the enemy couldn’t see short sword attacks properly. Not only is that much less likely now, but it’s also harder to hit enemies with such weapons because the bubble makes it more difficult to keep in range.

    The chase bonus nerf also hurts archers more than knights and vanguards. Normally, they do want to stay far away from you as they can. However, once you get close enough that they need to pull out their melee weapon, now their goal is to get as close to you as possible as fast as possible, so they can facehug attack as said previously. With you facing them, they no longer get that sudden speed boost, so any sudden lunge that would barely hit and flinch you pre-patch now will miss and you can properly remove their heads.

    You are correct on both counts, of course, but many of the archers I have faced recently have had no intention of trying to kill me (if they do, great, that increases my attacking potential). Most of them insist on simply defending and waiting for their teammates to show up. My problem is that it now seems far too easy to do this.



  • double post



  • @Bloodhead:

    You are correct on both counts, of course, but many of the archers I have faced recently have had no intention of trying to kill me (if they do, great, that increases my attacking potential). Most of them insist on simply defending and waiting for their teammates to show up. My problem is that it now seems far too easy to do this.

    What exactly do you want out of this discussion? A consensus that we need archer adhesives? Remove the ability to parry on archers? They can’t be defenseless in melee. What you’re describing is a valid tactic.



  • Agree completely with the OP. Whatever the numbers involved, pretty much every public TO server I’ve been on since the patch has been around 50% archers at least, which makes playing the maps as a melee player about as much fun as chemotherapy. The only way I can enjoy TO again is to find an archer limited server as rumple said, but these seem to be few and far between in my ping range.



  • @Bloodhead:

    You are correct on both counts, of course, but many of the archers I have faced recently have had no intention of trying to kill me (if they do, great, that increases my attacking potential). Most of them insist on simply defending and waiting for their teammates to show up. My problem is that it now seems far too easy to do this.

    Against any archer who does that, you can just press Q for an easy kill.



  • @RushSecond:

    @Bloodhead:

    You are correct on both counts, of course, but many of the archers I have faced recently have had no intention of trying to kill me (if they do, great, that increases my attacking potential). Most of them insist on simply defending and waiting for their teammates to show up. My problem is that it now seems far too easy to do this.

    Against any archer who does that, you can just press Q for an easy kill.

    I question your opinions regularly.



  • No matter what the balancing is, this is the fundamental problem.
    A ranged class in a game of melee combat will only be effective when you can’t actually hit it back.
    You’ve got a frustrating enemy that you can’t properly fight when he’s at range, in melee you have a boringly weak opponent.

    That’s why archers suck as a gameplay element and are server killers in high numbers. They go against the grain of the rest of the game.



  • Archers are important in team objective. And they aren’t weak in melee combat at all. If you’re fightin against an experienced archer as a slower class, he will just interrupt all your attacks until you die.
    I guess the MAA has a BIG advantage in melee fight, so he will probably be an archers feared arch-enemy.
    And even if the archer was such a weakass in melee combat. I think he should be. He should be able to protect himself, yes, but hes badass with the right player.



  • Archers only start to bother me when half the opposing team is them. Playing TO 12v12, 6 of which are archers on one team just ruins everything.

    I’m all for a global archer restriction on all servers…say 1 archer allowed for every 4 or 5 players on a team.


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