[VG] Vanguard Tasks (brainstorming)

  • As each class has a particular role on the battlefield I would like to break it down into single tasks to get a better overview.

    Obviously the Vanguards job is to dish out a lot of damage in melee fight but it should be possible to break it down on more specific situations. Weapons choice doesn’t matter here so Billmen tasks are Vanguard tasks and Spearmen tasks are also Vanguard tasks.

    Tasks are not coupled to their outcome but to the role the class is playing. We should be able to get useful tasks by answering sufficiently specific:

    (1) As a team captain which order would you give to your Vanguards?

    (2) As a Vanguard what situations would you be in most of the time?

    (3) As a Non-Vanguard what do you expect/like your Vanguards to do?

    (4) What are tasks that only Vanguards can fullfill?

    ! List for now:
    ! - second row fighting
    ! - hunting unsuspecting Archers
    ! - fighting Men at Arm
    ! - spearhead/breacher (frontline fighting)
    ! - patchup duty
    ! - area control (as lineman or by creating killzones)
    ! - flanking
    ! - counter charging
    ! - killing multiple enemies
    ! - finishing off wounded enemies

  • Unless I´m playing with a sword I always play a support role. Polearms and spears are great to fullfil such task. I´ll be usually in the 2nd front line, meaning just right behind my teammates (preferably knights) sending those stabs or those overheads on the enemy while keeping good distance.

    The playstyles with the swords vary quite a lot:

    Zweihander: You are a mobile anti-archer demolition machine.
    Claymore: You are a jedi knight capable of killing Man at Arms easily.
    Greatsword: You are a frontline soldier capable of slaying multiple enemies. You can turn on the beast mode and become nearly unstoppable.

  • I think that Vanguards make great finishers. When I play as a vanguard, I usually free lance and try to help my teammates finish off opponents. I think this is mostly for sword classes, but it could go for pole arms too.
    You have amazing reach for the most part, and all the weapons do a good deal of damage, so if someone is close to being dead, you can take them out with one hit. A vanguard + MAA combo is deadly, especially when the vanguard delays a little and comes in after the MAA has made first contact.

  • (1) As a team captain which order would you give to your Vanguards ?

    Vanguards have to be frontline fighters but since they don’t have shields, they should remain behind Knights, performing accurate stabs to foes Knights fight against with their long weapons.

    They are great to help teammates from a distance but are quite good to finish their opponents too or to close the gap between them with charge attacks. So they should always be on second lines.

  • “- Archer hunting”

    WHAT ? It’s the other way around, any decent archer can kill any vanguard 5 times before he get the chance to melee.

  • @funthomass:

    Zweihander: You are a mobile anti-archer demolition machine.

    Just translated this into some shorter form. Maybe I should add an “unsuspecting”.

  • @Evil:


    Zweihander: You are a mobile anti-archer demolition machine.

    Just translated this into some shorter form. Maybe I should add an “unsuspecting”.

    Our vanguards sometimes go Zwei only if there are at least 2 MAA on the opposing team, since they are capable of 1-shotting them reasonably.

  • As a man who reguarlly plays vanguard, I tend to see a lot of my brethern swinging blindly.

    The first and foremost task of a vanguard(or any class for that matter) is to know their weapon and to be able to use it to the fullest. Know the arch of your blade, know the reach of your spear, know the timing of your bardiche.

    As a vanguard you can preform several roles which basicly boil down into 2 catagories. Offensive roles and Defensive roles.

    Offensive Roles

    • Spearhead/Breacher

    • Flanking

    • Patchup Duty

    Defensive Roles

    • Lineman

    • Counter Charge

    • Area Negation

    Spearhead is what the vanguard was build to do. To charge into the enemy lines and start hacking, creating a gap or breach within their defence for the team to follow up on. With a vanguard up front under the cover of arrows, they can get that gap you need to fulfill the objective.

    Flanking can be done by any class in theory(Some might argue MaA’s are the best for such tasks) but the vanguard charge landing down upon an unsuspecting group of enemies from the side or rear can be devestating.

    Patchup duty is the most supportive role you can get, sticking with your teammates, shoulder to shoulder. Once the enemy turns tail to retreat or turns suspiciously red, go for the kill. Even if you won’t kill him you will at least sufficiently wound him for a quick follow up strike by your teammate.

    Now for the defensive roles.

    Lineman is exactly what it says on the tin. Hold the line at all costs. Best achieved with several vanguards or a vanguard + knightshield combo. Using your reach to keep the enemy away from the objective.

    Counter Charge is best done by sword-vanguards. When the enemy leads a charge for the objective, counter that charge. If you’re alone, sure you’ll die horribly, but if you are not completely incompetent, you at least killed one and wounded another.

    Area Negation comes into play when you need a narrow breach locked down, or a larger area manned. Not always the most exciting of jobs, since it might take a while for an enemy to come prodding for the soft underbelly of the turtle which is your team, but to find a shiv striking back usually deters them. Areas a vanguard could cover would be the side enterance of Hillside. The low path to the balistas on Hillside. The gates to the throneroom on Stoneshill.

    Now back to the questions asked.

    1. I want my vanguards to be breachers and patch up crew.
    2. I enjoy being a lineman or part of the patch up crew. I’m generally supportive of teammates(covering them, guarding them from attacks, striking after an enemy has parrier their attack)
    3. Counter charge and Lineman.
    4. See above.

  • The vanguard has 3 primary roles:
    •Archer hunting with the zweihander
    •Killing 5 enemies at a time with the zweihander
    kill-stealing aiding his allies with spears

  • SharpshotSid summs it up pretty good. Although there is one weapon, which from what i have read has been totally neglected in this Thread. The Polehammer.
    The Vanguard with a polehammer is a serious menace to any Knight coming close enough. True, ist maybe not as versatile as the greatsword or has that power to lock down an area or entrance as the spear could, but if you’re up against a band of merry Knights…there is nothing better than the polehammer.

    So as a Polehammer Vanguard, i would say you are a supporter. Alone you’re gonna get overrun. But in a Group of your Team, you are devastating. Overheading when the enemy is distracted results in a lot of exploding heads :P
    1)Flanking, flanking, flanking. Alot of times, especially now, with all the new Players, most just Focus on the main force which goes the main way. So one or two vanguards that take it low key and take the side roads are devastating to the enemy Team.

    1. Flanking! :D i can’t stress the importance of this enough ;) Running Forward into a enemy is ok. But if you sneak up on them, you get a free first hit. Sometimes thats all it Needs.
      But i also find myself Tackling the objective more often… don’t know. But usually only if no one else of my Team goes fo the objective :|

    2. As Long as they don’t jump Charge into my back and then just LMB their Team down, i don’t care. They are, as is allready posted, very versatile and each Player has his playstyle. Combined with the right weapon a vanguard is a multitalent.

    3. Keeping People at a distance. With the longest and most damaging weapons (except for the maul i believe) they can create zones where no enemy can step in, lest they get chopped to bits without getting into reach…pretty wicked.

  • I play billhook a lot, and I can say it’s very good for fighting other vanguards (not spears though) and shiedless knights and MAA. The times how much you have to hit someone make it a very good weapon to take on a completly undamaged guy. You have either speed, reach or damage as a significant advanatage while being able to 2-hit MAA and vanguards and 3-hit knights. Feinting is very important, while the overhead and swing animations are very singificant, the stab is not, use that.
    Weakness is of course archers (they are a 2-hit, too, unless you charge them right) and shields.

    Role on battlefield: Flanking, but can also be a good second-rank-guy. Lone-wolfing is not advised, you don’t realy have the stamina to take on more than 2 good guy. Kiting works very well with this weapon, and MAA are often surprised that their back-dodge is not far enough to get out of the stab.
    One very special tactic against defensive players: Run past their left and wind up your stab while they can’t see it well, stab as you are behind them. Works brilliantly!

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