Reduce Special Stun Time? [POLL]



  • I dont know why it should be bad. Some weapons cant do anything when stunned to 1.5 sec (maul)
    2 sec is perfectly fine for all weapons to hit once and with every type of attack



  • This is bad because of the compounded effect of the anti-facehugging bubble. What is happening is that many are swinging through player models doing no hit registration thus wasting stam with every swing that fails to make contact. Thus you are out of stam, your enemy is at full health and now you are stunned and dead. This is why it is a bad idea compounded by another bad idea.

    You cannot combat a valid tactic by nerfing the game mechanics. Well you can but few people will want to play it.



  • ProMod is 1.5 and it feels super fast. Id vote on 1.7 or 2.0, luckily ProMod is all about voting so we shall see when one comes up.



  • I would go with 1.5. But chuck 1.7 in the beta and see what happens.



  • lols 72% of those polled say .2 is too much and should be considered failure.



  • @Retsnom:

    lols 72% of those polled say .2 is too much and should be considered failure.

    I’m not sure if you mean .2 is a failure of the poll is a failure?



  • Ok, only 14% think that .2 is where it should be where as the other votes combines say that .2 is a bad idea = failure. Is that clearer?



  • @Retsnom:

    Ok, only 14% think that .2 is where it should be where as the other votes combines say that .2 is a bad idea = failure. Is that clearer?

    They made a mistake. Over nerfed it. It didn’t really need changing. Though in the previous patch not many people ran outta stamina. Though I didn’t see anything raised against it during beta. More concerned about other things mostly.

    Put 1.7 in beta. If that doesn’t work go back to 1.5.



  • @lemonater47:

    If that doesn’t work go back to 1.5.

    1.5 definitely doesn’t work. Maybe for most weapons but not for all of them. Being able to block a giant Hammer infinitely? Especially when thats not possible with an average sword? No thanks.

    I guess most people who voted for 1.5 or less do not use these very slow weapons very often. 2 second really feel too long if you are using a dagger. So making it specific to the weapon used is actually the best option. The second best option is giving each weapon the time to hit by making the stun duration just long enough. 1.5 does not do that.

    Also there is no majority voting for anything here because Chivalry has a lot more than 100 players.
    So: Put 1.7s in beta and if it doesn’t work keep it at 2 or test a value in between.



  • 8-) 1.6 seconds 8-)



  • @Evil:

    @lemonater47:

    If that doesn’t work go back to 1.5.

    1.5 definitely doesn’t work. Maybe for most weapons but not for all of them. Being able to block a giant Hammer infinitely? Especially when thats not possible with an average sword? No thanks.

    Interesting… This maybe the fix for archer melee parring heavy weapons by kicking archers up to 2. I still prefer small weapons also taking additional damage when parring heavy weapons. But the real question is, wouldn’t it be better to do the stam/stun per weapon?

    I guess most people who voted for 1.5 or less do not use these very slow weapons very often. 2 second really feel too long if you are using a dagger. So making it specific to the weapon used is actually the best option. The second best option is giving each weapon the time to hit by making the stun duration just long enough. 1.5 does not do that.

    Well I voted for 1.5 and I do mostly play halbred and pole arms. Currently, I get maybe 1 or 2 swings and a parry and if I get hit, blowback and stunned, boom dead. The current stun is beyond silly and frustrating since you get punished so much now for using valid techniques.

    Also there is no majority voting for anything here because Chivalry has a lot more than 100 players.
    So: Put 1.7s in beta and if it doesn’t work keep it at 2 or test a value in between.

    Well I play several hours a night on many servers and the overall consensuses from my observations is that it sucks with only a handful of players actually liking anything about the patch specially the stun. Most of these players will never hop in the forums and post. Probably more that half of the players have no idea that this forums exist, nor would they take the time to post unless it is a serious problem. just look at all the post where some player just hopped on the forums to post that they were done playing because of A B or C….



  • @Evil:

    @lemonater47:

    If that doesn’t work go back to 1.5.

    1.5 definitely doesn’t work. Maybe for most weapons but not for all of them. Being able to block a giant Hammer infinitely? Especially when thats not possible with an average sword? No thanks.

    I guess most people who voted for 1.5 or less do not use these very slow weapons very often. 2 second really feel too long if you are using a dagger. So making it specific to the weapon used is actually the best option. The second best option is giving each weapon the time to hit by making the stun duration just long enough. 1.5 does not do that.

    Also there is no majority voting for anything here because Chivalry has a lot more than 100 players.
    So: Put 1.7s in beta and if it doesn’t work keep it at 2 or test a value in between.

    I remember pre-patch getting kicked with a shield up, stunned and then being hit by the Maul. The recovery from kick is 0.4, Maul overhead windup is 0.7 and the release is 0.6, that equals 1.7. However you will hit somewhere in release so it will be actually quicker, much quicker if you’re looking down.

    I’m not sure though if you stun because of stam loss whether you have to take into account the 1.1 recovery, then you might have to stab.



  • Why should the stun time be increased simply to allow a very slow weapon enough time to get a hit in? People chose a slow weapon, they should understand that it is SLOW.

    I understand the Maul stun lock thing is strange, so here is the answer.

    Each stun after the first progressively gets longer. So 1.5s is the base stun, then if you get stunned again during that life, it is 1.7s, if you get stunned again 2s, if somehow you managed to survive after that, the stun is 2.5s.

    Reset the stun length on death, or after perhaps when you regain full stamina.

    Problem solved, for everyone.



  • @Dr:

    I remember pre-patch getting kicked with a shield up, stunned and then being hit by the Maul. The recovery from kick is 0.4, Maul overhead windup is 0.7 and the release is 0.6, that equals 1.7. However you will hit somewhere in release so it will be actually quicker, much quicker if you’re looking down.

    Its not about kick but about hitting someones parry with a giant hammer. You also need some time to revover from that (not exactly sure if it equals recovery or is a fixed value). Add it to your time to hit and you would be above 1.5 seconds even if you hit in the first possible moment.

    1.5 seconds make you stun your enemy with a tiny dagger and get a free hit in but if you use a Maul your enemy will just block you infinitely. In conclusion light and fast weapons are much more effective in defense breaking than slow and heavy ones. Does this sound right to you?

    For me it sound more like people just want the stun reduced because they want to feint, dodge, jump, combo and panic parry freely without having to worry about stamina at all.



  • Couldn’t you calculate a negative stamina and scale the stun length to that?

    For example blocking a dagger at 0 stamina puts you at -10 and you’re stunned for 0.8 whereas blocking at a maul at 0 stamina puts you at -25 and stuns you for 2 (Don’t care about the exact numbers just the idea)



  • some of you guys are really over thinking this. At 1.5 fights and the action was face paced and rewarding, now it is clear that it is a bitch and only adds to frustration as you parry till they run out of stam, stun them and kill their frozen body… Stupid, we all agree.

    The simple fixes are to change the effects of the weapons and leave the stun at back where it was. For example: all small weapons doing a parry against a heavy weapon should take both stam and damage. SIMPLE! That way archers cannot parry heavy weapons infinitely then spam you to death. To solve the heavy weapon speed issue, make the top 3 heavy weapons about to 1 hit archers with any successful swing not parried.

    With this you now have a more realistic fighting dynamic where archers are forced to actually use and get good at archery and melee as an absolute last resort. Slow heavy weapons would get the added bonus of crossing an entire battlefield, surviving, now with the satisfaction of a clean and well deserved one hit instead of being spammed to death.



  • 2 seconds is WAYYYYY too much. Even someone that doesn’t even realize that he got the stun can be like oooh okay, feint, and drag his swing before you can parry again… too fucking long. Now yes, it’s supposed to be some kind of free hit okay? but it shouldn’t be THAT fucking free. It should only be a free hit if you’ve been paying attention to the cues of OH SHIT he’s breathing like he’s having sex… time to get ready for that stun and attack following it. If they’re too dumb to realize you’re running out of stamina from 30 stam and below, they don’t deserve that free hit and you should be able to defend yourself… currently, the guy on the other end can walk the dog with a yoyo, then hit you when his trick is complete…

    1.5 was perfect i think, maybe 1.6 would help but i thought 1.5 was fine. You still got a free hit if you were prepared for it… and even if you don’t get it before a block or parry, you could just feint and kick them again or feint and hit them, just knowing that they’ll usually go for a parry asap. If you’re attack got parried, that means you weren’t paying attention and you don’t get any candy…

    So my opinion is that 1.5 was just fine. Free isn’t free.

    If ya really wanted to get all balancey about it, have the stun time depend on the weapon. If you’re worried about a maul speed, then change just that weapons stun… but don’t give a maul stun to a daggar… either way, no matter the weapon, 2 seconds is way too long.



  • A rare time we agree Clayton… But i like my additional tweaks…



  • 1.5 was too short to be reliable with some weapons, even if you accelerated your attack. The goal is to have it long enough that you can hit with any weapon without being forced to accelerate and whiff your attack on the ground, so that you can maintain initiative. Deflected state lasts .8 seconds, so a maul would never be able to hit at 1.5 seconds after being deflected due to its .7 windup factoring in latency. We will be reducing special daze to something like 1.7 however. 2 seconds is longer than necessary to achieve what it needs to achieve. 1.7 still forces you to accelerate your attacks with especially slow weapons like the maul, but at least it allows you to land the hit, which 1.5 never did. Even with a kick it was difficult unless you missed on purpose and dragged your kick into them in the final frames of release; otherwise you had release + recovery time rather than just recovery. And that gave them even more time to react to your kick and drop their shield.

    “Free hit” is a silly term for the daze, by the way. It’s not some arbitrary thing that just happens and you can’t control. It happens when you run out of stamina or fail to react to a kick. Feinting into a stun kick has a good .6 sec telegraph, if you can’t release block in that time frame you would have trouble parrying a maul. Shields need to be reaction based to some degree, or they’re just a crutch. Stamina management is self explanatory, we’ve even added very obvious cues for when your stamina is in the danger zone. But, it is certainly the case that parry stamina drain is too high on average at the moment, which is something we’ll be retouching in the upcoming patch.

    On a last note I’m really surprised to see people like Retsnom who were AoC veterans complaining about this, considering when you were out of stamina in AoC you couldn’t parry or attack at all and it had a longer delay before it regenerated to the point where you could - and everything cost stamina, even sprinting and attacking without missing. You’re usually campaigning for things that make you think about the combat such as stamina management, Retsnom, why the 180 suddenly?



  • @SlyGoat:

    1.5 was too short to be reliable with some weapons, even if you accelerated your attack. The goal is to have it long enough that you can hit with any weapon without being forced to accelerate and whiff your attack on the ground, so that you can maintain initiative. Deflected state lasts .8 seconds, so a maul would never be able to hit at 1.5 seconds after being deflected due to its .7 windup factoring in latency. We will be reducing special daze to something like 1.7 however. 2 seconds is longer than necessary to achieve what it needs to achieve. 1.7 still forces you to accelerate your attacks with especially slow weapons like the maul, but at least it allows you to land the hit, which 1.5 never did. Even with a kick it was difficult unless you missed on purpose and dragged your kick into them in the final frames of release; otherwise you had release + recovery time rather than just recovery. And that gave them even more time to react to your kick and drop their shield.

    “Free hit” is a silly term for the daze, by the way. It’s not some arbitrary thing that just happens and you can’t control.

    What you cannot control is the anti face hug bubble that net effect is having up to 40% of your swings passing through the player model doing no damage but punishing you by costing you stamina. So that in the heat of battle where 1/3 or more of your swings do no damage the stam cost is too great and you are frozen, free kill.

    It happens when you run out of stamina or fail to react to a kick. Feinting into a stun kick has a good .6 sec telegraph, if you can’t release block in that time frame you would have trouble parrying a maul. Shields need to be reaction based to some degree, or they’re just a crutch. Stamina management is self explanatory, we’ve even added very obvious cues for when your stamina is in the danger zone. But, it is certainly the case that parry stamina drain is too high on average at the moment, which is something we’ll be retouching in the upcoming patch.

    On a last note I’m really surprised to see people like Retsnom who were AoC veterans complaining about this, considering when you were out of stamina in AoC you couldn’t parry or attack at all and it had a longer delay before it regenerated to the point where you could - and everything cost stamina, even sprinting and attacking without missing. You’re usually campaigning for things that make you think about the combat such as stamina management, Retsnom, why the 180 suddenly?

    First off you are assuming that I was ok with that in AOC. There is no 180 in opinion. In fact I was one of the huge proponates against Toe 2 Toe and the last AOC patch. Remember my epic post criticizing CR2, predicting it would kill the game, (which it did) that lead me to being banned from the forums? lols. It wasn’t a good idea then and it isn’t now, even with a few whistles and bells added to it. I railed at not being able to sprint in and out of melee. Hit and Run is a valid tactic but CR2 in AOC and Stun/high stamina punishment is the equivalent of changing the game mechanics to nerf a tactic, not to actually balance the game, just so it is noob friendly. The net result of the Stun is slowing down the fights because everyone is now worried about stamina. I know the game feel far more sluggish now than ever. But that could also be the retarded ALT swing fix…. Seriously? lets just add a delay in front of the animation between button press and action… All that was needed was to mirror the default swings in animations and timings. No problem.

    I have never had a problem with stamina costs, it is the amount, the bubble bug lack of hit registration and the fact that they nerfed the regen. (I am sure they would say balanced it…lols). I actually like the idea that if you went and crouched down behind something for a quick breather you would regen faster. You actually had more control over your health instead of this random regen pattern. So adding more punishments, expecting you to manage your stamina without a way to manage your heath (other than completely retreat and hide till the match is over, or for a much longer period) is well, basically silly and retarded. Where as the quick break/crouch was very progressive and made fights and battles last longer because you actually managed both stam and health. Now you have to watch both and then totally retreat or die if your health gets too low, or run out of stam, get frozen and die. Great options… :?

    As far as the Maul goes, they are fixing an oil leak with can opener. The fix is really simple, make the slow heavy weapons do more damage, 1 hit archers and MAA with more than one successful attack type, not limiting it to only a head shot, (like stab and overhead). Just like the heavy Xbow 1 hits every class, make the maul a special 1 hit class, to be feared. I play Maul a lot and it is fun but frustrating but it was fine at 1.5 except the parry timing was slow as shit. All it really needed was a faster parry animation and a slight damage buff as most of the slow heavy weapons should one hit because they are slow and heavy and walaa! Balance!


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