Stab feints are still unreadable.



  • Enough said.

    The animations just aren’t good enough to make stab feints on fast weapons readable and it needs a fix. Either the animations have to be greatly improved or stabs have to be made unfeintable (i.e. smack a long cooldown on any stab feint during which time you can parry but not attack).

    What I don’t want to see here is a load of people claiming they CAN read stab feints. If you think you can, then I refer you to this set of duels (http://www.twitch.tv/lgheightofabsurdity/b/427114223 - watch between 29:00 and 38:43) and I ask you to explain to me why it is that not one of those SoW stab feints were successfuly read (by which I mean parried) by one of the best players in the EU scene.

    The fact of the matter is that parrying is STILL not a viable counter to feints. TBS, if you do not actually want parrying to be a viable counter, then you might as well just revert the 0.2s unfeintable window change because frankly it does basically nothing for stab feints. If you do intend for parrying stab feints to be viable then I am really baffled by the fact that you are doing nothing to address this glaring issue. I even made an “Ask TBS” thread about it 5 days ago which never materialised - I am now wondering whether there are tens of posts which you just aren’t bothering to process.

    Really, really not impressed at this moment in time, frankly.



  • @Bloodhead:

    Enough said.

    The animations just aren’t good enough to make stab feints on fast weapons readable and it needs a fix. Either the animations have to be greatly improved or stabs have to be made unfeintable (i.e. smack a long cooldown on any stab feint during which time you can parry but not attack).

    What I don’t want to see here is a load of people claiming they CAN read stab feints. If you think you can, then I refer you to this set of duels (http://www.twitch.tv/lgheightofabsurdity/b/427114223 - watch between 29:00 and 38:43) and I ask you to explain to me why it is that not one of those SoW stab feints were successfuly read (by which I mean parried) by one of the best players in the EU scene.

    The fact of the matter is that parrying is STILL not a viable counter to feints. TBS, if you do not actually want parrying to be a viable counter, then you might as well just revert the 0.2s unfeintable window change because frankly it does basically nothing for stab feints. If you do intend for parrying stab feints to be viable then I am really baffled by the fact that you are doing nothing to address this glaring issue. I even made an “Ask TBS” thread about it 5 days ago which never materialised - I am now wondering whether there are tens of posts which you just aren’t bothering to process.

    Really, really not impressed at this moment in time, frankly.

    After watching a good bit of that gameplay, I’m kind of questioning your claim that that’s one of the best players on the “EU scene.” He seems to have general trouble with blocking a lot of even overhead feints in that video.

    Do you have any more realistic evidence as to why stab feints are unreadable? Haven’t had much problem with them myself.

    Do you have a good ISP/PC? We could start by looking at whether or not it’s a mechanical issue on your end.



  • meanwhile me reading stabfeints on promod wich has the old, not nerfed feints

    now if you claim bs, i will record it for you dont worry

    also that was a tournament finals, people are nervous



  • @CRUSHED:

    meanwhile me reading stabfeints on promod wich has the old, not nerfed feints

    now if you claim bs, i will record it for you dont worry

    also that was a tournament finals, people are nervous

    Come on, nerves? Really?

    And actually the patch basically did nothing about stab feints. The issue is that the animations suck. It doesn’t really matter how early the feint comes; unless you have been spending literally 200+ hours actually training (as I am guessing you have if you can ACTUALLY read and parry them) then you can’t. So for 95% of the playerbase (i.e. those that don’t have that kind of time) it’s an impossibility.

    And magilla, are you on the competitive scene (if not then you’re simply suffering from the “I’m special and I can read feints where others can’t” syndrome which everyone experiences at some stage)? I mean forgive me for calling him a good player but he is in the finals and everything. If he can’t parry them at all then what kind of crappy hope does that give the rest of us?

    Also I don’t know what you’re talking about, I don’t remember Sponge using a single overhead, it was plain stab-stab-stab. Why would he use an overhead when the SoW stab is faster, more powerful and harder to block?



  • Come on, nerves? Really?

    And actually the patch basically did nothing about stab feints. The issue is that the animations suck. It doesn’t really matter how early the feint comes; unless you have been spending literally 200+ hours actually training (as I am guessing you have if you can ACTUALLY read and parry them) then you can’t. So for 95% of the playerbase (i.e. those that don’t have that kind of time) it’s an impossibility.

    And magilla, are you on the competitive scene (if not then you’re simply suffering from the “I’m special and I can read feints where others can’t” syndrome which everyone experiences at some stage)? I mean forgive me for calling him a good player but he is in the finals and everything. If he can’t parry them at all then what kind of crappy hope does that give the rest of us?

    Also I don’t know what you’re talking about, I don’t remember Sponge using a single overhead, it was plain stab-stab-stab. Why would he use an overhead when the SoW stab is faster, more powerful and harder to block?

    I am not. Also, I’m not suffering from any syndrome? I had really no problem with feints after about 50 hours invested. I went into a game with my friend and we just practiced trying to feint each other out for a while.

    I saw him failing to block feinted overheads later on in the video, against a knight.

    I agree that the animations aren’t great, but I don’t think they suck. You can see the drawback halt and return pretty solidly on a stab feint, and the SoW isn’t THAT quick to stab. I agree it’s hard at first, though. Also, the SoW is pretty much designed to stab… If you see someone using it, that’s a dead give away that you need to defend against stab.

    I’m not trying to question you or anything, man. I even offered to help. Why don’t you post your hardware specs/data rates so we can approach that side to why you’re having so much trouble?



  • The reason I ask is because if you have a low ping, but your opponent has high ping (over around 120,) you might have some issues with reading AND hit detection. Same thing vice versa.



  • I had really no problem with feints after about 50 hours invested. I went into a game with my friend and we just practiced trying to feint each other out for a while

    50 hours invested into the game as a whole or 50 hours invested into feint practice? I’m confused.

    You can see the drawback halt and return pretty solidly on a stab feint, and the SoW isn’t THAT quick to stab. I agree it’s hard at first, though

    You see, all I’m going to do now if refer you to that video again.

    If Dubjay can’t do it, then how the hell can the rest of us? You can say ‘it’s hard at first’ but do you really think Dubjay isn’t more experienced than you? So why can you block them (lol) but he can’t?

    Especially if, as you say, the SoW stab isn’t that fast.

    Oh and also there is nothing wrong with my ping.



  • @Bloodhead:

    Especially if, as you say, the SoW stab isn’t that fast.

    0.6 windup

    Pretty sure there are things much faster than that.

    All feints are readable, even pre-patch.

    Stop confusing reading with reaction. They simply made feints reactable to now.



  • @Bloodhead:

    I had really no problem with feints after about 50 hours invested. I went into a game with my friend and we just practiced trying to feint each other out for a while

    50 hours invested into the game as a whole or 50 hours invested into feint practice? I’m confused.

    @2xiej4ll:

    You can see the drawback halt and return pretty solidly on a stab feint, and the SoW isn’t THAT quick to stab. I agree it’s hard at first, though

    You see, all I’m going to do now if refer you to that video again.

    If Dubjay can’t do it, then how the hell can the rest of us? You can say ‘it’s hard at first’ but do you really think Dubjay isn’t more experienced than you? So why can you block them (lol) but he can’t?

    Especially if, as you say, the SoW stab isn’t that fast.

    Oh and also there is nothing wrong with my ping.

    Maybe Crushed was right, and it was nerves? 50 hours invested as a whole, although I’ve obviously put in more than that.

    Someone skilled failing to do something that’s quite possible isn’t evidence of impossibility.

    I’m just trying to diagnose where you’re struggling. What’s your PC hardware like?



  • Feints are fine shut up



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Bloodhead:

    Especially if, as you say, the SoW stab isn’t that fast.

    0.6 windup

    Pretty sure there are things much faster than that.

    All feints are readable, even pre-patch.

    Stop confusing reading with reaction. They simply made feints reactable to now.

    Erm I’m not confusing anything with anything. In this context ‘read’ means exactly the same as ‘react’. And no, the whole point is that stabs are still NOT reactable.

    50 hours invested as a whole, although I’ve obviously put in more than that.

    Someone skilled failing to do something that’s quite possible isn’t evidence of impossibility.

    I’m just trying to diagnose where you’re struggling. What’s your PC hardware like?

    I’m afraid I call BS. You are probably pretty much in that stage of delusion I talked about, a stage where you think you’re special for apparently being able to read feints when actually you’re only facing really pathetically executed flash feints. If you’re actually claiming you can parry broadsword stab feints then I don’t know what to say to you.

    And I think in this case the video shows pretty clearly the impossibility of reading stab feints. The fact is that he did not get a SINGLE ONE. You don’t think that shows anything?

    Oh and this:

    All feints are readable, even pre-patch.

    Is laughable. It was universally agreed that well executed feints pre-patch were literally impossible to read. So I don’t know what on earth you’re trying to do.



  • Who agreed to this well executed feint idea? You and your friends? A couple of people on the forums? The main issue I noticed was “feint spamming.”

    Your video is not evidence. One person’s shitty play is not a clinical trial, or an overarching example of anything.

    50 hours of gameplay is sufficient in learning the feinting aspect of the game, both offensively and defensively, with practice.

    Stop trying to mold a game around your personal faults. Put forth more effort to learn how to do these things, or simply accept mediocrity. Why would I take the other side of the argument? I don’t play competitively, and I don’t seek to pubstomp with a broken mechanic. I’d be taking your side if it was broken, because it would have killed me countless times in the hours that I’ve played.

    Think of it. You’re proposing that the mechanic is UNBLOCKABLE. I mean, seriously read what you’re saying. You just need to work on yourself. I mean are you experiencing lag or something?



  • Who agreed to this well executed feint idea? You and your friends? A couple of people on the forums? The main issue I noticed was “feint spamming.”

    Oh come on please tell me you weren’t one of those people who claimed to be able to read feints even before the patch.

    You talk big. Can I ask, out of curiosity, how many hours you’ve invested?

    Your video is not evidence. One person’s shitty play is not a clinical trial, or an overarching example of anything.

    That awkward moment when you refer to RK/Dubjay’s play as “shitty”.

    Think of it. You’re proposing that the mechanic is UNBLOCKABLE.

    Yes, though that’s a simplification. I’m saying it can’t be PARRIED (without luck/coincidence). Right now the only counter to stab feints is to stay aggressive and not provide them with the opportunity to feint, just like pre-patch. And why is this the best counter? Simply because parrying it is practically impossible. All you need to do is look at that video, you’ll see Dubjay is trying his best to stay on the offensive all the time and the casters even say at one point that he should have stayed aggressive in order to prevent a feint - they did NOT criticise him for failing to read it.



  • @Bloodhead:

    Is laughable. It was universally agreed that well executed feints pre-patch were literally impossible to read. So I don’t know what on earth you’re trying to do.

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Stop confusing reading with reaction.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Bloodhead:

    Is laughable. It was universally agreed that well executed feints pre-patch were literally impossible to read. So I don’t know what on earth you’re trying to do.

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Stop confusing reading with reaction.

    Go on then, explain the difference.



  • theres isa problem with stab feints any one whos good will start feinting out of range be spam feinting in your face waiting for u to block or start your windup or till there close enough to drag around you and theres not a fuck of a lot you can do about it, before you could counter it by forcing them to hit trade than combo feint to parry countering. in live at the moment basically all of our 1v1 have turned into a spear feint stab off. but if u find that as boring and tedious as i do come join us on promod.

    edit also its not about feints being reqdable because a good person is not going to feint a certain amount of times hes actualy waiting for u to make a move so he can react to you.



  • @Bloodhead:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Stop confusing reading with reaction.

    Go on then, explain the difference.

    Pretty sure i’ve explained this multiple times to you. Use the search function.

    But since I know you won’t.

    While this is just a theory, explaining it in depth will end up enforcing that you could actually react to a feint.

    It’s quite trivial. Reaction is responding to stimuli to your 5 senses. The 2 stimuli being used in this game are sight and sound.

    Reading is the act of prediction, the abstract method to predict what the opponent will do based on past experience, mindgames, and reacting to stimuli, all simultaneously.

    So, notice how I presented reacting to stimuli within reading; it is definitely an element. It is also an element in mindgames, or forcing the opponent within boundaries that you provide him and/or vice versa. With this, I could make the argument that feints were actually able to be reacted to.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Bloodhead:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Stop confusing reading with reaction.

    Go on then, explain the difference.

    Pretty sure i’ve explained this multiple times to you. Use the search function.

    But since I know you won’t.

    While this is just a theory, explaining it in depth will end up enforcing that you could actually react to a feint.

    It’s quite trivial. Reaction is responding to stimuli to your 5 senses. The 2 stimuli being used in this game are sight and sound.

    Reading is the act of prediction, the abstract method to predict what the opponent will do based on past experience, mindgames, and reacting to stimuli, all simultaneously.

    So, notice how I presented reacting to stimuli within reading; it is definitely an element. It is also an element in mindgames, or forcing the opponent within boundaries that you provide him and/or vice versa. With this, I could make the argument that feints were actually able to be reacted to.

    To be honest, I think you’re being pedantic. Surely you knew exactly what I meant.



  • @Bloodhead:

    To be honest, I think you’re being pedantic. Surely you knew exactly what I meant.

    There’s a big difference, though.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Bloodhead:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Stop confusing reading with reaction.

    Go on then, explain the difference.

    Pretty sure i’ve explained this multiple times to you. Use the search function.

    But since I know you won’t.

    While this is just a theory, explaining it in depth will end up enforcing that you could actually react to a feint.

    It’s quite trivial. Reaction is responding to stimuli to your 5 senses. The 2 stimuli being used in this game are sight and sound.

    Reading is the act of prediction, the abstract method to predict what the opponent will do based on past experience, mindgames, and reacting to stimuli, all simultaneously.

    So, notice how I presented reacting to stimuli within reading; it is definitely an element. It is also an element in mindgames, or forcing the opponent within boundaries that you provide him and/or vice versa. With this, I could make the argument that feints were actually able to be reacted to.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KufiqCh3Qd4


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