A comprehensive look at the flail buckler



  • This was a series of tests that Vq.Doomydoom and I performed on the Chivalry beta (the one right before release). Likely, nothing has changed since then, but it is worth noting in case. We first noticed that a lot of strikes seemingly passed through the flail knights buckler (and damaging the knight behind it), when on even ground, while aiming the shield at my weapon. The tests appeared to show that the buckler itself is not the problem, it’s the flail knight wielding the buckler that causes some unstable performances. The following are buckler tests on non-flail knights, on flat ground, attempting to hit at odd angles. The results were stable and expected.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gw2OKTDVFY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPIehXpGjOo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUzNOG1wPQo

    Despite going at odd angles, the shield was able to perform as it should.
    Supposedly, all shields and parry use the same hitbox, so the results should be stable and static between parry, tower shield, kite shield, and buckler. The following are attempting to strike through parry and a tower shield at odd angles and on flat ground.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7krCoRFNU0c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsns93AMLP0

    Again, the results are stable and expected.
    The following three videos are depicting the flail and buckler on even ground (sometimes slightly uneven, we weren’t 100% scientific in our approach :P), striking at odd angles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUH9Zv-W … e=youtu.be
    The above video speaks for itself, and doesn’t require much explanation. I think the third hit was actually around the shield, and the second may have hit before he raised his shield again. But the first and the fifth hit went clean through the buckler block. Only the fourth strike was blocked successfully, all while being roughly down the center (with a slight left side (attacker view) bias).

    This video (starting around :23 because I’m too lazy to edit the footage), shows one attack easily bypassing down the center of the buckler, when aiming at the overhead blade strike.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhY4GH6NeRU

    and this final video, showing again issues blocking an overhead attack aimed at the shield.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-eneTRX83A

    Do note the behavior of blocking from the first set of videos, showing functional hitboxes from all angles (including backwards blocking even). The same should apply to the knight flail and buckler, but seems to be less stable than the tests done against the man at arms and archer bucklers.
    Contrasting the first video showing the man at arms blocking with a buckler, and the flail knight blocking with the buckler, there seems to be a huge discrepancy between the two.

    Faults of the experiment: I notice in many of the flail buckler videos, he is crouched down, while in the non-flail knight videos Doomydoom is generally standing. I’m not sure if this would make a difference, but is worth noting. We had to move around in the map due to it being played on a public server, and we were even interrupted several times. However, we did attempt to use the flattest ground available for each test. Each series of tests were done from many angles, and showed that the rim towards the middle of the flail buckler had a tendency to let attacks through, while a man at arms with buckler did not.
    Final fault of this experiment, and like the other shield experiments done on these forums before, the target was stationary, and in combat they are unlikely to be standing completely still while I angle my blade towards what I call the soft spots of the flail buckler. Since we cannot see the shield hitbox, we can only guess what is happening based on visual feedback.

    Conclusion: The hitbox for the flail knight appears to be more reliable on the left lateral side of the buckler (defender view), and more susceptible for attacks to pass through the shield mesh on the right lateral edge (again defender view). Vq.Doomydoom said that from his perspective, all my attacks were on point and seemed to just pass through the shield and strike him.

    For the best comparison, I would look at these two videos most closely:
    (also tl;dr)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gw2OKTDVFY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUH9Zv-Wibo



  • With the buckler you has to use it like a parry not a shield.

    Look at the tip of the enemy weapons and it works 100%.



  • @lemonater47:

    With the buckler you has to use it like a parry not a shield.

    Look at the tip of the enemy weapons and it works 100%.

    What a useless reply. The problem is the fact that the flail knight buckler appears to work differently from the buckler on other classes. Some of the videos in the OP demonstrate Doomydoom looking at the tip of the weapon and it phasing straight through.



  • @lemonater47:

    With the buckler you has to use it like a parry not a shield.

    Look at the tip of the enemy weapons and it works 100%.

    Doomydoom stated that when I was striking at his buckler that it was aimed where the other bucklers would block it successfully, and do note that in other test videos showing the buckler on another class, the issue that I pointed out did not persist. It was only with knight and flail buckler that I was able to phase my attacks through the buckler and hit the knight. With the man at arms and javelin archer, it simply did not happen that way, ever. I believe there is something different in either how the flail knight buckler functions, or that maybe his mesh is large enough where his hand is somehow being struck behind the buckler.

    Either way, the two act very differently.

    Also that is a fault of the experiment as well, these issues will likely not exist when you are moving the buckler around at the weapon, versus just standing there. So these results are a lot like the results of the other shield test, where you could stab at the rim of the shield and hit the leg of the blocker, even though the shield mesh appears to cover that section of the body.



  • Ahh, must of not of seen that particular video.

    I assumed they cloned the bucklers. Probably cloned them at the start. Last patch probably change one when they thought they changed all.

    And fuck you too wahoa



  • I think even more worrying is that the flail buckler seems even less reliable than a normal parry.



  • I think even more worrying is that the flail buckler seems even less reliable than a normal parry.


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