First impression of ProMod and my view of the Vanilla



  • Greetings to all ye casuals, clannies, try-hards, exploiters, etc. Just wanted to post my first impression on the “ProMod” for Chivalry:Medieval Warfare and my view on the vanilla game I didn’t really know where to post a first impression post/opinion, I was deciding between “Custom Content” and here in General Discussion forums but I digress.

    So just a background of my “hours” since from the looks of it some like to state their hours played into the game as a measurement of experience one has acquired through out the game’s life time, from alpha-beta-release so on. I am a medicore player with 175 hours under my belt. With few hours already planted in Chivalry Beta where I go on ProMod servers to see what it’s like. Now before some of you go on scoff at me for my meagre hours, I was around to play Age of Chivalry during it’s golden days, and around to see the modder’s (now indie developers) decision to go “offical”. So I have a decent idea of the game’s mechanic, real-time swings.

    Although I wasn’t around to play the beta of the game, as my laptop would melt at the slightest notion of running Unreal Engine 3, I finally bought the game and began to play (after new laptop). I can’t really remember what exactly the date it was but the Content Update 1 Patch 1 was already up and running, as some would say the “best patch” of the game’s life. It was really fun to be able to have controls over my swings and parries, learning curve wasn’t especially steep for me as I already honed my self in the art of real time strike in AoC… or atleast I knew how it works and that outdated/ buggy as hell tutorial helped (Yes, I played the tutorial, ooh!). Of course there were many times where my ass was handed to me by players who are able to combo, alt-strike (something I asked around to learn :P) combo-feint parry, y’know the works; the advanced stuff. Days went by, gradually I was able to say “yeah, I’m decent… I think?” because I know for certain there more things to learn, more things to try out and experiement. I saw players who utlilzed their overhead swings in a clever way, like looking back over head strikes, the dreaded looking down overhead strikes and parrying strikes from behind by leaning backwards. It amazed me that even after all these hours of playing, there were still more things to be seen and done, keeping the game fresh I suppose to those who were willing to learn them… by the hard way… getting killed by it… multiples times…

    Before some of us readers (assuming you actually stuck around to read this much) raise the red flag and yell “look down overheads are exploit!” “combo-feint-parry is exploit!” I want to point out that just because a mechanic in a game was implemented unintentionally does not mean an exploit. Exploit is a situation where as the victim of such have NO way of responding back to what is going on. For example clipping into the ground and being able to shoot at players while not being able to be shot at would be one. I get this feeling that some people are forgetting about the idea of real-time swings, that your swings aren’t exactly deteremined by a preset animation that would play whenever a button is pressed. This is real time, yes the animation is there to start but that does not mean that the “speed” of the animation is set in stone, it’s the players that has most of the speed control and that the contact of each swings are also mostly within the player’s control, it’ll lead to some odd encounters. Can it be said that those odd encounters are cheap? yes. Can it be said that those odd encounters are an exploit? Could you REALLY not do ANYTHING about that SoW foot stab, the lookdown overhead? Sure you could do something about it, although difficult to see and time but it was able to be parried! You can do something about it! It’s cheese yeah, but exploit? Personally, I must disagree.

    I think it’s not really fair to call an unintended mechanic built into the game an “exploit”… if that was the case then the idea of increased difficulty would be considered an exploit too! (A story of space invaders) but back to the main story.

    These clever moves, no matter how much “cheesey” it was, I have to admit was pretty cool. Players took something from the game, a basic swing and camera control, moulded it and finally gave it shape into what many would see as “cheap” or “exploit” etc. Chivalry is one of those few games that gave players the full control of whatever they were doing (or atleast it tries) but cheese is cheese, I can’t really deny that somethings that were created were pretty much cheese like the lookdown overhead strikes (RIGHT IN YOUR FACE) and lookdown stab to foot (RIGHT IN YOUR FACE)… but with time I’ve learned how to counter this: put more distance and if that don’t work, look REALLY far down to parry or REALLY far up. I’ve learned counters and how to avoid these situation gradually; it was a difficult road but I got there. Then the mother of all storms hit us… t’was called Cu1 Patch 2.

    Feinting/Cancelling strike nerfs, stamina changes, all the she-bang. The forums were in the upheaval; the Balance Council was ignored! the Competitive player’s suggestions were ignored! this-that, argueing left and right. This patch sucks!, This patch is awesome! blah blah blah. We’ve been through it. Some players hate this current build, I suppose I can understand, they took away the things that we used to have pretty much full control of, our swings, our parries and our cancel/feints.

    To me personally, I feel that combat was FORCED to become longer, lengthier. Where as in Patch 1 prolonged combat to me was a testament to one’s skill, you were able to read the opponenet’s moves and respond and counter accordingly. The clash of blades was a skill, even if cheap moves were inserted here and there. To win or even to lose against such a lengthy battle, to me was satisfying. If I won, it’d be like he’s done all these moves against me and I was able to pull through where as when lost it’d be like I’ve done all these but still lost, at least I was able to give it all and saw some moves that wasn’t of the norm, that’s cool and there’s always next time. Each opponent was a box o’ choclates… and you know what they say about box o’ choclates. This is what I enjoyed the most in Patch 1, sure it had its problems but the fact the I had controls over my actions and that each encounter was random and possibly rewarding with a nice lengthy battle of skills (hence the term… good fight) outweighed the negatives for me. There are few games that makes my hands shake due to the adrenaline rush/intensity of a match… Chivalry patch 1 was one of those few.

    With patch 2’s forced length, it was dull to put it simply. The extent of control I had over my swings were reduced, the stamina penalties were of capital punishment severe the combo-feint/cancel-parry disappeared, mouse dragging was reduced. My options of approaching an encounter dwindled, not only mine but the opponent’s as well. Some would say that Patch 2 allowed for greater length in terms of 1v1 combat. That’s nice and all, I’m not opposing an idea of nice lengthy fight but I’d like it so that I can MAKE or CREATE that fight, not served to me because of nerf/elimination of game mechanics. It’s just so much more rewarding to be able to create a “good fight” scenario by yourself with your own skills/strategy than having it ALL the time because of game limitation on its mechanics.

    Not surprisingly… the community was divided. Those who preferred Patch 1 and wish it back and those whom accepted Patch 2. I, without a doubt, fall into the former category; but I also accept that what’s done is done, TB has “spoken” I suppose and they rolled with it. I suppose I can respect that they stuck through with their plan, no matter how much I disagree with Patch 2. So I turned towards Chivalry Promod, a “mod” to those “try-hard” or “Clannies” or “Exploiters” basically people who stuck around to learn the trades in Patch 1 and used it against new guys who had NO idea, who then got angry and gave em names or players who were just disgruntled by the other player’s use of game mechanics… One of those two.

    I obviously was excited for ProMod, though not a “pro”, I did enjoy Patch 1 which was basically what the mod was with upcoming balances changes and what not. So hopping on the mod, after many hours into playing Patch 2 which I fondly called “Chivalry: Casual Warfare”, oh man… I felt like I was back to 5 hours + days. Yeesh, I was so used to Patch 2 that my feint/cancels were not as quick, I think I totally crapped out when it came to MAA’s dash attacks… combo-feints etc. Oh man I got my ass handed to me, but you know what, It was fun. Plus I got to see some “big honchos” I guess, guys from Vg. Int. etc. all the “celebrities” oh plus HEXEN, Crom was pleased… one day… I will master the manly Cudgel. After the glamour of seeing big shots faded away, I was once again painfully reminded of how sorry-ass-state I was in. I was lucky to to last maybe… 5 minutes on those guys. But hey, least it helped me to get back on my feet. Sort of.

    So what’s my impression on ProMod? It’s solid. for an alpha. Then again much of the resources were pulled from vanilla chivalry + Patch 1 as well… so far not much room for error. I suppose it’s when the custom contents starts being implemented is where we’ll see the errors… as for the community… well I feel like a gold fish in a school of freaking WHALES. It’s sort of overwhelming at first to see how vastly you’re outmatched but that’ll be over with soon, I was more or less hoping to see players like me, pubbers who enjoyed Patch 1. It doesn’t help that I was reminded with shall we say a smarmy comment of “It’s 'Pro’Mod” during one of the matches by a “clannie” followed by a bunch of carrot signs soon after made by the memebers of the same clan. Yeah, I know it’s 90% clan members who liked the competitiveness of Patch 1, I for one like the speed / intensity of Patch 1 and I also know that it was the clannies who wished to start this mod; of course it’ll be filled with clannies. Aside from the whiff of the ol’ clannie elitism towards a pubber. I enjoyed it a lot, maybe I’ll come back for it when ProMod gets more players like me… Hopefully it’ll get more players like me, those who enjoyed the pace of Patch 1.

    Until then, play on guys. play on. and Thanks for reading.



  • @PaperChops:

    Until then, play on guys. play on. and Thanks for reading.



  • I want to point out that just because a mechanic in a game was implemented unintentionally does not mean an exploit. Exploit is a situation where as the victim of such have NO way of responding back to what is going on.

    I stopped reading here purely because that’s a simply atrocious definition of an exploit. Just completely wrong.



  • You could of just said you support "muh exploit"Mod and we would have automatically known to disregard your entire convoluted post with your backwards logic.



  • I think that, even though patch 2 has its downsides, the game as a whole is more balanced. No more CFTP means you actually get punished for missing swings. New stamina system means you actually have to care about stamina. No attacking while dodging with MAA means you can no longer just dodge forward while winding up to hit someone going into recovery for a free hit. More weapons are viable that were previously shit, and the weapons that were overused (SoW/Longsword) were nerfed a bit (BUT THEY ARE STILL VIABLE). It’s overall a lot nicer to see multiple weapons being used by people instead of Knights with SoW/Longsword being the only thing you’ll see for miles.



  • Promod is for exploiters who want to keep exploiting and winning to feel good about themselves in an online game. Sad existence, really. Just play the game how the developers intended.



  • @Magnificent:

    Promod is for exploiters who want to keep exploiting and winning to feel good about themselves in an online game. Sad existence, really. Just play the game how the developers intended.

    Well with the SDK out, players do have a right to mod the game so they can play as they wish. And promod does fix a lot of things that have gone un-noticed by TBS, such as a FFA classic duel official gamemode, tools for comp play like readying up and such, etc. I just don’t think the game was balanced well in Patch 1, and so many players got used to being good in Patch 1 that they don’t want to adapt their skills for Patch 2 or accept that they can no longer 1v5 with their CFTP, dancing, “unlimited” stamina, etc.



  • @Magnificent:

    Just play the game how the developers intended.

    No, play the game however you like it ;)



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    @Magnificent:

    Just play the game how the developers intended.

    No, play the game however you like it ;)

    We want this game to grow in player size and become a household name, not be fractured by the try-hard Promod. Promod just adds complications to the game’s state.



  • @Magnificent:

    Promod is for exploiters who want to keep exploiting and winning to feel good about themselves in an online game. Sad existence, really. Just play the game how the developers intended.

    Seriously, the next time you complain about ProMod and just saying it’s for exploiters and whiners, you WILL be banned. This is your LAST warning.



  • @Magnificent:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    @Magnificent Bastard:

    Just play the game how the developers intended.

    No, play the game however you like it ;)

    We want this game to grow in player size and become a household name, not be fractured by the try-hard Promod. Promod just adds complications to the game’s state.

    Some players want to play a mod, why can’t you deal with it?
    In some other thread you said that combo feinting is an exploit, but combo feinting is still in the live version of the game :? Can you explain why combo feinting is an exploit for you?



  • @Magnificent:

    Promod is for exploiters who want to keep exploiting and winning to feel good about themselves in an online game. Sad existence, really. Just play the game how the developers intended.

    So,what you are basically saying is that the game has been an exploit-fest for the past 9 ? months (since release),since the ProMod is reverting changes from the last patch.
    Dayum son,you stupid.
    P.S
    Mod tools are there so everyone can have something to enjoy about the game.



  • This game was actually fun to play 2 patches ago. I have been playing this since Kickstarter beta and honestly it’s just ruined now. Each time I play its more and more irritating. Hits dont register, or you die when you dont get hit…

    The overall feel is way off, noobs get kills and pro’s can’t fend off 4 guys like they used to. It’s a shame, they should have just left it alone.



  • @Bloodhead:

    I want to point out that just because a mechanic in a game was implemented unintentionally does not mean an exploit. Exploit is a situation where as the victim of such have NO way of responding back to what is going on.

    I stopped reading here purely because that’s a simply atrocious definition of an exploit. Just completely wrong.

    I suppose if you wanted the literal dictionary definition of exploit or exploitation it’d be use or utilization for selfish reasons.

    I was going for the video game term of exploit: the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers and one woud argue that Lookdowns overheads and the “cheese” tactics would be considered as such if you tried to take what exploit is literally.

    It’s just that to me, all the look downs, combo-feint-parry and other unintended features to me doesn’t seem like exploit. It just seem seem like how combos were back in 80s when Renegade or Double Dragon was around. It’s not a mechanic that the developers intended to have but players utlizaed them. I’m sure those who faced those unintended features also cried out “exploit!”



  • The OPs definition of an exploit makes combo feint parry an exploit.

    Its very annoying when your opponent finally makes a mistake but his weapon suddenly teleports to parry position.

    0.4 second cool down stops this teleportation.

    Don’t make mistakes. And you won’t get hit. That’s how it should be. And they have made it more so.



  • Just in case anyone forget:

    int | bada: is “combo-feint-to-parry” an exploit
    SlyGoat: no



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Just in case anyone forget:

    int | bada: is “combo-feint-to-parry” an exploit
    SlyGoat: no

    Its because its been changed not removed. I said that in my above post.



  • He writes an interesting essay and all anyone can focus on is his definition of exploit.

    Yes he was wrong but um lots more to the post.



  • CFtP could use a queue for the parry… Current release you kind of have to mash parry if you’re using a slow weapon.



  • @gregcau:

    He writes an interesting essay and all anyone can focus on is his definition of exploit.

    Yes he was wrong but um lots more to the post.

    Actually that’s pretty much I read.

    I’ll read it properly later. I don’t have many problems with the patch.

    Too much was changed at once. That’s the base problem.


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