Sheilds need a buff



  • With 120 fov or TPV you can still be nigh unkillable with it up, but the problem is after the stamina changes, you will be DYING for stamina VERY fast with a shield. I picked up Van post patch, and I don’t even bother kicking shields, I just keep stabbing them until its user runs out of stamina. On top of this, shields can still be kicked, and the resulting kick stuns for so long you can do an overhead maul strike during it. That’s effed up, Imo either the stamina drain needs to be lessened, or the kick stun needs to be heavily reduced if not removed.

    Shields already suffer from the fact that they force the knights to use weaker weapons… Whenever I see a shield knight I’m like “free kill”. I guess shield users have to focus on killing their targets very fast before they run out of stamina, but that’s just not an easy task as the range of their 2h swords is lowered when holding them in 1 hand, that along with the Knight speed nerf and the Van knockback buff = dead shield Knight.

    Though every shield buff I guess will be an indirect buff to the filthy MAA class who need no more buffs at all…



  • I would agree if you didn’t insult MAA.



  • Knights with shields need a buff, I would say. I think the shield kick flinch should be shorter for knights since they’re “tougher” than MaAs you know? Their passive is that they use less stamina when blocking with shields but I think that needs to be buffed some because of the stamina changes in this patch.



  • it’s a joke. he’s suggesting that the obvious weakest of all the classes is OP. that’s so absurd, it’s an obvious joke.



  • @Deadpan:

    it’s a joke. he’s suggesting that the obvious weakest of all the classes is OP. that’s so absurd, it’s an obvious joke.

    His comment wasn’t absurd enough for it to be obviously sarcastic. It sounded like he was being serious to me.

    Shields for maa really do need a buff. They slow down your movement, take double the stamina to block attacks, take more time to come up, and you can’t riposte attacks. They aren’t useful for anything but blocking missiles.



  • Shields for MaA don’t need a buff IMO. You can do perfectly well with one and without one and its up to the player and whether it limits them or aids them. Personally, I prefer no shield at all but if I had to choose it would be the buckler only because I like the way it looks with the MaA.

    In fact, scratch all that, MaA doesn’t need buffs in regards to anything, just fixes to bugs.

    Knights + shields need something though IMO. I like SoC’s idea on Knights perhaps having less stun duration when kicked.



  • ^shields don’t need a buff, i just don’t use them." hmm:/

    but again, shields do slow down your movement? i hear that sometimes… crap, really?

    i really should not use it then, because i have to put it on my back in a fight so i can parry better. which, incidentally, totally means they should get buffed because that’s the craziest thing to do ever.



  • Used to use shield as knight a heck of a lot. Postpatch? Hardly at all, not against anyone good. Just gotta put it away and parry now, n whip it out if theres archers everywhere. The stamina drain risk and the risk of the kick flinch makes the shield really not worth using over parry anymore, except of course when getting shot at.

    Its risking a 100% guaranteed overhead from all players (except those with downs syndrome), on two fronts rather than one, with the original risk (running out of stamina) increased. Considering a lot of weapons can two hit knights with overheads - thats just mad. The ‘Tank’ class, ey?

    Using a shield wont condemn you entirely to death, but as I say - its really not worth using actively anymore, your better off not doing so by a long shot.

    Its a shame because I liked shields before. I definitely agree that shields (at least for knights) need a buff to cope with stamina drain changes, but then if it happens, itll probably happen next year. Or most likely never.

    HAVE FAITH…. GOOOD WILL PREVAILLLL… :P



  • What I said was Deadpan, MaA shield doesn’t need a buff and even I know this when I hardly use them. The last thing MaA needs right now would be shield buffs to an already strong class.

    Knight shield on the other hand is a different story.



  • “an already strong class”

    that no-one uses. ever. except in duels, or small servers <24



  • @Deadpan:

    “an already strong class”

    that no-one uses. ever. except in duels, or small servers <24

    What’s your point? Why should that factor into why a class deserves a buff or not?

    Oh and you’re wrong by the way.



  • Shield stamina drain wasn’t touched, only parry.



  • “wasnt touched”. So each weapon… drains EXACTLY the same amount of stamina for a shielder when they block it… as it did before the patch? Describe further, im sure thats not quite how its worked out, is it now? :).

    Im being staggered much more frequently since the patch.

    Zob put it well:

    “This needs a dramatic rethink. Shields are almost unusable now in melee. I end up letting people hit me instead of blocking because the stamina drain is so severe against big weapons it’s the only way I can continue to fight without getting stunned.”



  • @SlyGoat:

    Shield stamina drain wasn’t touched, only parry.

    I’m not sure why but it seems unanimous that stamina drain on shields seems worse post patch. Could it be the result of some other change or the way it’s calculated? It has to be something, I doubt we’re all imagining it.

    I know he’s not a dev, but wildwulfy seems to think it had changed.
    @wildwulfy:

    Stamina drain cost calculation upon shields have only been changed twice. First time through the Content Update 1, and now the Balance patch. Though the calculations are not that different from the old ones.

    Even if we are imagining it, and the last time it was changed was CU1, it STILL needs to be looked at.
    Shields have the following nerfs:

    Can’t counter attack
    Shield drop time makes one handed weapons slower
    Can’t use two handed weapons
    Blocks your view
    Stam drain every time you block
    Stam drain for holding up too long
    kicking gives special stun

    That’s a long list, and what’s the benefit? Some resistance to projectiles and you can hold up block rather than having to parry. When feinting was rampant that was a good thing but now that’s been toned down shields are less useful than before. In the early days you could tank a bit of damage with a shield to defend your allies and let them counter attack, you could form up a shield wall and defend an objective or area. If you try that now you’ll be out of stamina so fast it’s not worth it.



  • The problem is not the shields but the massive change in the game mechanics along with all the new stam punishments. Add in the increased bubble bugs and the lack of ability to control your regen by crouching this is where the problems lie, not in the shield itself.



  • On FFA servers I habitually rock the Heater Shield. It is very useful. It TO it is useful, in duel mode not so much (quaterstaff is for duel mode hehe)
    Protection against projectiles is very, very useful. Most archers don’t aim for the feet and you can tank 1 foot hit while you close the distance.

    I also find the ability to hold a shield up is very useful when you have 2 or more people attacking in your general direction. Unless they attack at closely the same time your parry is only going to stop one attack from hitting you… The shield can stop them all.

    The stamina drain on the shield from being hit, isn’t that bad. It you are constantly blocking to the point where you get stunned, you need to rethink your strategy. When I come across a shield user, and they go all defensive and I have a 2hander I’ll keep attacking them until they get stunned. What they should be doing is retaking the initiative and pounding my head with a feinted 1 hand swing for instance.

    2 second stun is too long though, that is just a silly amount of time. 1.5s is more than enough. If a player chooses to use a really slow weapon that takes too long for that stun window, well they did choose a very slow weapon…



  • @Toll:

    On FFA servers I habitually rock the Heater Shield. It is very useful. It TO it is useful, in duel mode not so much (quaterstaff is for duel mode hehe)
    Protection against projectiles is very, very useful. Most archers don’t aim for the feet and you can tank 1 foot hit while you close the distance.

    I also find the ability to hold a shield up is very useful when you have 2 or more people attacking in your general direction. Unless they attack at closely the same time your parry is only going to stop one attack from hitting you… The shield can stop them all.

    The stamina drain on the shield from being hit, isn’t that bad. It you are constantly blocking to the point where you get stunned, you need to rethink your strategy. When I come across a shield user, and they go all defensive and I have a 2hander I’ll keep attacking them until they get stunned. What they should be doing is retaking the initiative and pounding my head with a feinted 1 hand swing for instance.

    2 second stun is too long though, that is just a silly amount of time. 1.5s is more than enough. If a player chooses to use a really slow weapon that takes too long for that stun window, well they did choose a very slow weapon…

    I agree is some aspects. In FFA you’re less likely to have to fight big groups than in TO which I usually play.

    The problem is this idea that “if you are constantly blocking… you need to rethink your strategy.”. In a TO game, a shield knight used to be really useful as a support unit. A couple of shield knights could lock shields together for an even more effective unit. You could defend objectives and allies. Allies with spears could stab from behind cover and archers could shoot. It was like a real medieval battle.

    Now you simply can’t do that. You’re forced into being way more aggressive and using footwork, (which I think I’m pretty good at BTW) it’s not a bad thing but it was really fun and very medieval to fight as a tight little unit that could form a wall. Now the wall will break apart in a few seconds because of knock back and stam drain.



  • @Dr:

    @Toll:

    On FFA servers I habitually rock the Heater Shield. It is very useful. It TO it is useful, in duel mode not so much (quaterstaff is for duel mode hehe)
    Protection against projectiles is very, very useful. Most archers don’t aim for the feet and you can tank 1 foot hit while you close the distance.

    I also find the ability to hold a shield up is very useful when you have 2 or more people attacking in your general direction. Unless they attack at closely the same time your parry is only going to stop one attack from hitting you… The shield can stop them all.

    The stamina drain on the shield from being hit, isn’t that bad. It you are constantly blocking to the point where you get stunned, you need to rethink your strategy. When I come across a shield user, and they go all defensive and I have a 2hander I’ll keep attacking them until they get stunned. What they should be doing is retaking the initiative and pounding my head with a feinted 1 hand swing for instance.

    2 second stun is too long though, that is just a silly amount of time. 1.5s is more than enough. If a player chooses to use a really slow weapon that takes too long for that stun window, well they did choose a very slow weapon…

    I agree is some aspects. In FFA you’re less likely to have to fight big groups than in TO which I usually play.

    The problem is this idea that “if you are constantly blocking… you need to rethink your strategy.”. In a TO game, a shield knight used to be really useful as a support unit. A couple of shield knights could lock shields together for an even more effective unit. You could defend objectives and allies. Allies with spears could stab from behind cover and archers could shoot. It was like a real medieval battle.

    Now you simply can’t do that. You’re forced into being way more aggressive and using footwork, (which I think I’m pretty good at BTW) it’s not a bad thing but it was really fun and very medieval to fight as a tight little unit that could form a wall. Now the wall will break apart in a few seconds because of knock back and stam drain.

    The tight little unit thing you speak of still works in some areas of TO. Citadel to Dark Forest, you get those little squad sorts of things happening from time to time.



  • You can still be a tight unit. However it is a bit rough to expect to be able to have what is essentially an impenetrable wall in a TO game.

    You just have to make your tight unit, tighter. If you all execute your attacks with excellent timing, you will be able to push out with an attack and reform your wall. It will also look sweet as.



  • @Retsnom:

    The problem is not the shields but the massive change in the game mechanics along with all the new stam punishments. Add in the increased bubble bugs and the lack of ability to control your regen by crouching this is where the problems lie, not in the shield itself.

    Go troll a different forum


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