The snail pace of patches are killing the game.



  • Really? How many weeks are we going to have the Claymore/Brandistock/Spears/Bearded Axe be like this? Once again, the snail’s pace of dev response is doing damage. The absurdity of these changes are one thing, creating obtusely broken weapons, but just how long are we going to go on with them? I seriously doubt just some guy in his basement is working on this game so having these balance problems go on for so long after a patch created them is just sad.



  • They said the “hotfix” is aimed for end of this month but “no promises”.



  • @DokB:

    They said the “hotfix” is aimed for end of this month but “no promises”.

    ….?

    We pushed out a hotfix to address some stamina issues and super projectile speeds a week after the last patch.

    The next major patch with customization, SDK, etc. is aimed for the end of this month.

    I still question the validity of Bearded Axe and Claymore OP status, by the way. Particularly when considering the Bearded Axe’s windup was slowed down…



  • @SlyGoat:

    @DokB:

    They said the “hotfix” is aimed for end of this month but “no promises”.

    ….?

    We pushed out a hotfix to address some stamina issues and super projectile speeds a week after the last patch.

    The next major patch with customization, SDK, etc. is aimed for the end of this month.

    I still question the validity of Bearded Axe and Claymore OP status, by the way. Particularly when considering the Bearded Axe’s windup was slowed down…

    I’m talking about the one where you were talking about spear speed changes. Or does that fall under the customization, SDK thing?



  • @DokB:

    @SlyGoat:

    @DokB:

    They said the “hotfix” is aimed for end of this month but “no promises”.

    ….?

    We pushed out a hotfix to address some stamina issues and super projectile speeds a week after the last patch.

    The next major patch with customization, SDK, etc. is aimed for the end of this month.

    I still question the validity of Bearded Axe and Claymore OP status, by the way. Particularly when considering the Bearded Axe’s windup was slowed down…

    I’m talking about the one where you were talking about spear speed changes. Or does that fall under the customization, SDK thing?

    The next patch will also include balance changes, yes.



  • @Slygoat:

    A new beta update should be ready this week, and we’re aiming hopefully to have the patch live this month, but no promises.

    We’ve got some preliminary balance and mechanics tweaks coming soon to the beta. Specifically, lower stamina drain, shortened 2h flinch and special daze, faster flails, tweaks to the chase mechanic (not a reversion to always chase all the time, but improvements to how it functions now), nerfs to spears and a few various knockback changes. I’m probably forgetting a bunch of other stuff.

    Only quoting what I’ve read brutha.

    Probably shouldn’t have called it a hotfix though now that I think about it. :P



  • I still question the validity of Bearded Axe and Claymore OP status, by the way. Particularly when considering the Bearded Axe’s windup was slowed down…

    Please go develop farmville then because I can’t begin to describe how wrong that statement is.



  • There are big things in the works, BIG



  • @Garfuncle:

    I still question the validity of Bearded Axe and Claymore OP status, by the way. Particularly when considering the Bearded Axe’s windup was slowed down…

    Please go develop farmville then because I can’t begin to describe how wrong that statement is.

    What is wrong about it?

    Subjective opinion: Bearded Axe and Claymore aren’t OP.

    Objective fact: Bearded Axe was slowed down and people were not calling it OP when it was even faster.

    An opinion on a subjective matter by definition cannot be wrong, unless you consider minority opinions “wrong”. The latter I know is not wrong because I changed the values myself. I will double check them now… Yep, Bearded Axe is still slower. :)

    Although I do think it’d be fun to develop Farmville. Seems like pretty light work and I’d probably make a lot more money - Farmville probably makes enough money to qualify to be its own economy.



  • The bearded axe has been ridicules since the feb patch but it was more of a secret OP



  • Bearded forces fights from reaction/skill based to thinking/strategy based. It’s a little anti-fun IMO, but definitely not “OP.” Just have to approach it much differently than just about any other weapon in the game. I think that was Torn Banner’s intention, for that variety.

    Claymore is quite underpowered IMO. Slygoat agrees that a 2h which requires 4 hits to kill a knight is pretty weak, but then we have the crappy longsword now which also takes 4 hits to kill knights, but he thinks its totally fine so I don’t really understand him.

    Patches are actually coming faster now that the studio has settled down. I was extremely surprised to hear they plan to have the customization patch out this month. I remember the time it took from: closed beta -> release -> CU1 -> community patch -> ect., it was a lot longer than: last patch -> our current patch -> customization patch. Then we have talk about a huge expansion coming on top of this fast pace.



  • @SOC:

    Bearded forces fights from reaction/skill based to thinking/strategy based.

    First of all, I fail to see how strategy does not correlate to skill.

    Second of all, I fail to see how you can’t react to a 0.475 windup, when the average human reaction to visual stimuli is about 0.25



  • Did you just kinda agree with me nova?



  • The claymore is a noob mower that is all.

    More people use the greatsword over the claymore



  • The Bearded axe is like an angry short person.
    It may look menacing, sound/act menacing, but it’s really no more dangerous than a fluffy pillow.

    The overheads are fast, so fast that most average players cannot aim it properly, which allows you to easily side step or out range the attack.

    The Vanguard’s knockback does need a little tweak again, plus all the spears slashes, otherwise they’re alright.
    The Claymore only needs some animation syncing fixed, then it would be easier to fight.

    TB has been very consistent with their patches lately, it’s been monthly, which is a hell of a lot more than a lot of other titles/companies with or without AAA budgets.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @SOC:

    Bearded forces fights from reaction/skill based to thinking/strategy based.

    First of all, I fail to see how strategy does not correlate to skill.

    Second of all, I fail to see how you can’t react to a 0.475 windup, when the average human reaction to visual stimuli is about 0.25

    Skill in my definition is reaction/making good quick decisions consistently without any plan or forethought. You could most definitely argue skill and strategy to be the same thing, but strategy is boring gameplay, skill is fun gameplay IMO. It’s why I enjoy Chivalry over Age of Empires.

    Secondly, you can’t react to bearded feints is what I meant. If you go in there thinking “only parry right before you take damage” like always, you’ll eventually cave and make mistakes against the bearded. You have to approach it differently. You have to slow down, stop reacting and start thinking. Not many other weapons in the game are like that.



  • @SOC:

    Secondly, you can’t react to bearded feints is what I meant.

    Why can’t you react to bearded feints over other weapons? 200 ms is the window for all weapons, and is a constant number.

    @SOC:

    Skill in my definition is reaction/making good quick decisions consistently without any plan or forethought. You could most definitely argue skill and strategy to be the same thing, but strategy is boring gameplay, skill is fun gameplay IMO. It’s why I enjoy Chivalry over Age of Empires.

    While reaction is a part of reading, I would argue that mindgames (forethought is a part of it) is at the pinnacle of skill, while execution is basic. It isn’t until after you’ve gotten past execution training can you get into theory.

    The example I always use is with fighting games. When fighting a low tiered player, the higher level player will fish for execution mistakes from the other player. At higher level play, it is all about mindgames. Fighting games move at a much faster pace in comparison to a game like this – far past possible human reaction in most cases – so the top level players rely more on consistently reading their opponent.

    There are players who are absolutely perfect at execution, but you only need enough to execute what you need to do. An example in SSBM was Silent Wolf – probably the one who was closest to perfect execution as possible – and is quite impressive in show-off reels. Was he a tournament winner? No… and didn’t really get that close either.



  • Bearded axe needs a complete rework.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Why can’t you react to bearded feints over other weapons? 200 ms is the window for all weapons, and is a constant number.

    Because of how fast it strikes for a 2h, you have less time to react. The animation is extremely quick (or maybe I’m biased because I know what it was like before its buffs so seeing it this fast still feels un-natural to me) so the time-window of “wait to parry right before you get hit” is a lot shorter than for the pole axe or double axe. It’s not the feints themselves, but trying to read the animation of the bearded. So maybe I’m just biased because of my experience with it before its buffs. Of course, this is all just my opinion.

    @NoVaLombardia:

    While reaction is a part of reading, I would argue that mindgames (forethought is a part of it) is at the pinnacle of skill, while execution is basic. It isn’t until after you’ve gotten past execution training can you get into theory.

    The example I always use is with fighting games. When fighting a low tiered player, the higher level player will fish for execution mistakes from the other player. At higher level play, it is all about mindgames. Fighting games move at a much faster pace in comparison to a game like this – far past possible human reaction in most cases – so the top level players rely more on consistently reading their opponent.

    There are players who are absolutely perfect at execution, but you only need enough to execute what you need to do. An example in SSBM was Silent Wolf – probably the one who was closest to perfect execution as possible – and is quite impressive in show-off reels. Was he a tournament winner? No… and didn’t really get that close either.

    I agree completely that mind gaming is crucial to “skill” and quick thinking, but the forethought (IMO) mostly comes from after spending time with your opponent during the match. Being an avid fighting game fan my self (and lover of Smash Bros), I understand your point. Personally I believe mind gaming and theory come from making good quick decisions against your opponent with good judgement consistently when you have no experience with them before-hand. If you do have experience, you’re still mind gaming of course, but it’s on a more strategic level than reacting. This is definitely semantics and heavily my opinion though, but there are multiple types of fighting games that are more execution/thinking on your feet based. IMO, Melee is more execution and Brawl is more thinking on your feet. Or Marvel vs Capcom 3 is more execution and Street Fighter 4 is more thinking on your feet. While all these games certainly have a lot of both, I think Chivalry leans more to thinking on your feet (unless you’re doing clan battles or dueling people you have lots of experience with beforehand).

    I guess an example I can make is like dueling with bada vs moose. When I duel with bada, it feels more fast paced, having to think quick, react well, and play with my skill at extremely fast levels. When dueling with moose, it was a lot slower paced, having to spend more time thinking and not reacting, and trying to read him over time rather than in milliseconds. bada prefers sword of war while moose plays a bunch of everything, so different weapons and playstyles lead to different ways of approaching. This is why I feel like some weapons are better suited for reaction (SoW) and others are better suited for thinking (bearded). It’s really just my opinion though and how I think when I play, so it’s extremely subjective and can definitely vary from user to user.



  • @SOC:

    Skill in my definition is reaction/making good quick decisions consistently without any plan or forethought.

    You should reconsider your definition, cause by it a chessmaster has no skill at all.


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