Knight options vs. aggressive vanguards? [dueling]



  • So I’m a mid-level [25] knight player who usually prefers dueling. I run falchion/kite shield and do at least reasonably well with it now that I’ve finally adapted to the knight’s speed nerf from January (took a couple months break). However, there’s one matchup I am having trouble with: Really aggressive vanguards.

    It’s usually some kind of sword-user; whether claymore or something else, I can’t tell. Problem is, they swing from such range and so persistently I run out of stamina, then get stunlocked to death. Ever since the speed nerf, I have trouble closing in on them with how short my falchion is, so I can’t find a way to stop their assault. I’m not QQ’ing, I see this purely as a personal failing on my part; I’d just like to know what I should do. Is there a certain weapon or move I can use here?



  • Lose the shield. Agressive tactics work very well against shields.

    Or get very good at dodging.

    If you don’t have a sheild you can riposte. And he will lose more stamina. And you get a good chance of hitting him.



  • Agreed with dropping the shield. It makes it difficult to hit back at the opponent after he hits your shield, and it drains your stamina more quickly.



  • Should I use the falchion shieldless, or is there a primary weapon I should pull for this occasion?



  • I have resently picked up the flail. After blocking, i start an Attack and aggressive people seem to be able to interupt my windup or hit trade me.
    I mean come on, how short can the “no attack window” be.

    Normaly i am playing maa and doing this myself, so i know from 2 sides how broken this is.



  • @Rampage:

    Should I use the falchion shieldless, or is there a primary weapon I should pull for this occasion?

    A shield less falchion is very deadly. Especially for a knight as you can take punishment a deal the pain quickly if the agressive vanguard makes a mistake.

    You gotta get in close. Hard to do with the vanguard knock back (toned down a bit next patch) but its doable.



  • I also play as a knight. In my opinion, the best you can do, is to forgot about secondary weapons. Use only primaries. My favourite is bearded axe, in my humble opinion the best of knight’s weapons.

    Move to your opponent. He have a little longer weapon, so you must block his strike first. And then attack fast. Move to him and attack in the same moment. You should strike his back or side, he can’t block your strike. If he won’t block, combo him. If he’ll block, try again. Watch your stamina bar. If the opponent allows you to keep moving backwards for a while and regen your stamina, do it and attack him again after your stamina regen. But I know, you said about agressive vanguards :D



  • When fighting vanguards, I would suggest something with good range, like a SoW or Pole-axe or Longsword.

    You need 1 headshot with SoW or Longsword to 2 hit a vanguard, or 2 body stabs with SoW.

    Pole-axe will kill anywhere as long as you don’t do 2 horizontals, but is slower.

    Just make sure you are up in their grill all the time. Don’t let them keep the range superiority. Using other weapons will work, but it may be harder to get that initiation due to the shorter range.



  • Longsword is still an amazing vanguard killer. It has the longest range of all knight weapons so vanguards can’t keep you out of range, and as Nova said, stab + overhead kills a vanguard as long as at least one of those hits is a headshot (and you don’t let him back off to regen health).



  • Maul, falchion, kite shield is a very well rounded and strong setup. As everyone else said, lose the shield. As of this patch, shields in melee are garbage especially against vanguards. They drain a lot of stamina against shields now. If you have a hard time getting in a vanguard’s range (this patch they also made their knock back really annoying), try the maul and force hit trades with your overhead. A claymore will lose every time, because you can kill that vanguard in 1-2 hits. Maul overhead to the head oneshots anyone in the game, including knights, and is actually really fast since this patch. Since you can parry in recovery now too, it’s a very powerful weapon currently.



  • If you ditch the shield like the people above say and you vs an aggressive opponent you will get feinted.

    The Falchion, whilst doing good damage and reasonable quick LMB attack, it kind of sucks elsewhere, particularly range. The broadsword is a much better all-rounder.

    If you are going a shield knight, the primary’s wielded with your shield can be quite good, the Sword of War has great reach and speed. Vsing a good vanguard you will need Reach or Speed, preferably both. Hence the Sword of War is a good choice vs a Vanguard whilst the Falchion is lacking.

    If your opponent is an aggressive vanguard and you are having difficulty beating him, then try playing more aggressive then your opponent, go in hard and fast and use feints.



  • Use maul, facehug, react correctly to all feints, spam overhead, win.



  • I think I’ll try the maul and bearded axe out, see which I like!

    As for the falchion; guys, I’m not looking to get rid of the weapon. I usually go 10-1/10-0 in my dueling matches when I run the falchion, these vanguards are my only issue. Just needed something for them.



  • @Josh:

    Use maul, facehug, react correctly to all feints, spam overhead, win.

    Your damn screwed against a vanguard who knows how to riposte and feint. Maul is very slow and very easy to read.



  • @lemonater47:

    @Josh:

    Use maul, facehug, react correctly to all feints, spam overhead, win.

    Your damn screwed against a vanguard who knows how to riposte and feint. Maul is very slow and very easy to read.

    Speed is irrelevant, the maul user has no reason to feint and just keeps counterattacking, he will always force his opponent’s stamina to run out first, then you 1 hit kill



  • There is only one maul user I fear. But he fients and uses a bunch of other dirty tricks.

    Using it your way you will die against an experianced sword or polearms user.

    If your up against a vanguard with a pole hammer your dead with a maul.



  • @lemonater47:

    There is only one maul user I fear. But he fients and uses a bunch of other dirty tricks.

    Using it your way you will die against an experianced sword or polearms user.

    If your up against a vanguard with a pole hammer your dead with a maul.

    Well he asked for tactics against swords :?

    Vs Greatsword or Claymore, Maul overhead drains 19 and 20 stamina respectively
    Feints are 15 stamina

    Let’s assume for a second that there is no ‘no feint window’ and that your chance of guessing a feint is 50%, the average over 4 feinted attacks (60 stamina cost) is going to be getting hit twice, which you will survive and blocking twice, when you block you counterattack, against Claymores that’s cost them 100 stamina, they will now die, against Greatswords they have 2 stamina left, they can’t feint, you counter of their next attack, they then die.

    Polearms might require actual effort to beat.



  • @lemonater47:

    There is only one maul user I fear. But he fients and uses a bunch of other dirty tricks.

    If your up against a vanguard with a pole hammer your dead with a maul.

    Come fight me 1v1 in Classic duels, I’ll show you some fierce Maul tricks ;)

    One of the powers of the Maul is it’s extremely EXTREMELY slow combos, combine that with missing the first strike and comboing into another overhead, the opponent will most likely miss time their parry.
    Also yes, Polehammer Vanguards that are actually skilled with it scare me now, it went from laughably average powered to a 2 hit wonder, a more deadly Warhammer :(

    To OP though, with aggressive Vanguards, take your time with them and be patient, unless they’re feinting.
    Vanguards die from 2 hits with most weapons so all it takes is some precision and timing, you won’t have to worry about them any more.

    IMO, I don’t recommend the Bearded Axe for fighting Vanguards, if they know their footwork, they will easily side step/out manoeuvre it’s strikes. A long sweeping weapon is a bit better.



  • @Rampage:

    I think I’ll try the maul and bearded axe out, see which I like!

    As for the falchion; guys, I’m not looking to get rid of the weapon. I usually go 10-1/10-0 in my dueling matches when I run the falchion, these vanguards are my only issue. Just needed something for them.

    You’re rolling with a setup I used to use a lot myself. Rather than ditching the shield, I would choose the SoW as a primary so you can switch to that one handed if necessary. Mainly I would look to footwork, most aggressive Vanguards can be tricked into swinging too early. Run straight at them but just as you get close start back peddling. This will sometimes make them swing too early and miss you. The problem is that they will probably combo into an attack and the falchion’s range makes it very hard to counter frm there. If you have the SoW one handed you can punish them for missing.

    If you really want to stay with the falchion, I would block and counter with an alt-slash to overhead combo. Basically you’re looking to hit trade. You will be hit but you can two hit them and you can take an extra hit. Throw a feint in if they start blocking.

    Another thing to do is throw a quick shield bash in, block then shield bash. This will often throw an opponent enough to get a hit in.



  • Lol knight is a joke in duels. Just keep your distance and swing, and knight has no choice but to lose stamina, he can’t close the distance b/c then he is knocked back. Just pick Van.


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