Massive number of archers



  • Firstly, there is only 1 semi-populated 3archer cap server on oceanic.

    Every game I play there is a huge number of archers involved, up to and often more than half of an entire team. Playing against this isn’t fun at all. I appreciate archer takes skill to aim and whatnot, but there is very little skill involved for the victim. 90% of the time I’m fighting someone or just running to the fight when I suddenly die from range. When half a 16 man team is archers movement is almost impossible, it’s just no fun at all. Not to mention being teamkilled by your own archers.

    It feels like archers bring a poor dynamic to the game by being relatively difficult to play but devastatingly effective and annoying to the targets. An archer may enjoy getting their kill, but all the target has done is run for a good while to get back to the fight, only to do without being able to react.

    (my problem would be fixed with special servers blah blah, not available sorry)



  • Well, it’s a class that most new players will pick because they’re on familiar footing, having come from a life of FPS games beforehand. It gives them a chance to observe the combat without being directly mauled.

    If we removed the crosshair, that would mitigate the efficacy of archers, and it would be a hell of a lot more realistic.

    I feel you though. A crappy archer (team) is just kind of annoying. And I main an archer. In game and IRL.

    I think the main hate towards them is the theory that it takes no skill on the archer’s part to do well as an archer. Which stems from the theory that you can’t avoid projectiles.

    It’s pretty easy to go an entire game without someone even shooting at you. Most archers follow horribly linear lines of fire.



  • Archer > MaA > Vanguard > Knight since this patch.

    Only way to beat archer is to play archer. Otherwise throw smoke pots and/or use shields, and just hope for the best. Serpentine, move unpredictably, flank, jump, whatever, and hope they’re bad. That’s all you got until this community and TB understands how OP archers always have been.



  • @SOC:

    Archer > MaA > Vanguard > Knight since this patch.

    Only way to beat archer is to play archer. Otherwise throw smoke pots and/or use shields, and just hope for the best. Serpentine, move unpredictably, flank, jump, whatever, and hope they’re bad. That’s all you got until this community and TB understands how OP archers always have been.

    When people directly engage archers, they will be OP. Especially with the semi-buggy backstab.

    Creep up on them, they’ll be less OP.

    Most archers also have terrible situational awareness.

    Also, removing the crosshair for archers would solve a lot of problems…



  • Cwossbows are getting a nerf in the next patch, as show in the official news section.
    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15866

    some more ideas here

    viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15708&start=30

    I suggest

    Slower arrows (wich is being done to the crossbow)
    Reduced archer run speed

    more visible arrows shots (makes it easier to avoid and or locate and kill archers)
    Parry arrows (This! :))

    Archer penalty of some kind when hitting ally idk about this (stamina drain?)

    if you do want to nerf them



  • @Carolean:

    If we removed the crosshair, that would mitigate the efficacy of archers, and it would be a hell of a lot more realistic.

    Id like that. Crosshair only for crossbows (makes sense realism whise), and balance that by longer reload time. (Would also push crossbows to a one-shot then melee niche, instead of beeing strange bows)
    Of course crosshair should also be removed from throwing knifes/axes and smoke/fire pots then.

    But the one thing thats probably the best solution is to have the cone of fire (That Ive been told exists in single play) in multiplay too.



  • lol you main archer irl
    sweet



  • Every game I play there is a huge number of archers involved, up to and often more than half of an entire team. Playing against this isn’t fun at all.

    Personally I find it just as annoying to play with a huge number of archers - I’ve seen a lot of games on hillside where Agatha haven’t been able to get to light the beacon because a third of their team is sniping from spawn.

    There have been quite a few threads about this, it’s been an issue for a while. This is a problem with almost all class-based multiplayer games, though; there’s usually an equivalent to having too many spies in tf2, or those snipers camping on the edge of the map in battlefield. Unfortunately, class caps are the only real solution, and TB (iirc) say that they wont have class caps on official servers. They also said that about servers with ping limits, however, so you never know.

    @SOC:

    Serpentine, move unpredictably, flank, jump, whatever, and hope they’re bad.

    Yup. Most of the tactics suggested in these threads and the balance forum wont work against an archer who’s put in some serious time with the class. Just zigzag and pray.



  • And when you DO successfully zigzag an archer but he was unfortunately able to hit you at least once with an arrow you’re sometime still fucked because when going against an archer in melee with low hp and stamina he can still just dagger spam your ass. Dangerous motherf**kers those archers.



  • If we removed the crosshair

    i would just stick a tiny dot on my screen.

    Archer > MaA > Vanguard > Knight since this patch

    unless there was a patch the past two days, that is absolutely, patently wrong. for sure: Vanguard > Archer > Knight > MAA. for absolute certain. i’ll put money on it.

    An archer may enjoy getting their kill, but all the target has done is run for a good while to get back to the fight, only to do without being able to react.

    true. but the same is true when you’re killed by a Vanguard Charge, or a flinch combo.



  • @Deadpan:

    If we removed the crosshair

    i would just stick a tiny dot on my screen.

    @23wy6c1r:

    Archer > MaA > Vanguard > Knight since this patch

    unless there was a patch the past two days, that is absolutely, patently wrong. for sure: Vanguard > Archer > Knight > MAA. for absolute certain. i’ll put money on it.

    An archer may enjoy getting their kill, but all the target has done is run for a good while to get back to the fight, only to do without being able to react.

    true. but the same is true when you’re killed by a Vanguard Charge, or a flinch combo.

    How much money are you willing to bet? :D
    Out of all the things you could have said, putting Vanguard at the top was the worst thing you could have said. Followed by MaA at the bottom.

    Care to enlighten me how a Vanguard can beat an Archer? Or how a Knight has even the remotest chance against a MaA?



  • yes, because everyone picks Vanguard because it’s such a weak class, eh? yeah.

    and i did not make a rock-paper-scissor cycle of individual match-ups between classes in one-on-one situations. neither did Soc. you tell me how Archer beats MAA, eh? go on then.

    Vanguard is almost always the most picked, and almost always tops the charts, and heavy Vanguard teams usually beat low Vanguard teams.

    they just tend to be chosen by whiny players that pick the most vulnerable class because it has the most power and then complain the whole forums to shit that it’s vulnerable and they occasionally die too suddenly between their sprees of rapid kills.



  • I’m not talking about a rock paper scissors comparison, no one is. :? You put Vanguard as the best class when he is nowhere near to being the best class when you have equally skilled players. You’re talking about what happens in pubs where there is 6 Vanguards and 6 Archers and everything is a cluster fuck. Vanguard is the pubs go to class because he is generally easy to get kills with.

    Vanguard is almost always the most picked, and almost always tops the charts, and heavy Vanguard teams usually beat low Vanguard teams.

    Vanguard and Archer have always been the most picked but your point about Vanguards beating low Vanguard teams is unfounded and not true at all.

    you tell me how Archer beats MAA, eh? go on then.

    Archer can 1 shot or 2 shot a MaA at long range with most of his primaries. If the MaA somehow defied the odds and reached the Archer, then he has to go toe to toe with an Archer who has access to secondaries that are almost on par with the MaA’s primaries. I don’t think you understand how strong an Archer is in CQC.



  • CQC? lol. this forum is so full of weird jargon damnit.

    and anyway, i take it pub means any regular, non-passworded server as opposed to passworded server where people go to play with a small group of virtual friends or something? is that it?

    well, yes, then i’m talking about pubs, yes. totally. i suppose i’ve only ever played pubs. and if you take something of a 4 vs 4 situation, where people don’t blindly rush the enemies, and you have more co-ordinated and cautious play i reckon things might be different.

    i am talking about regular, normal, regular, normal, regular games of regular, normal, regular play under regular, normal, regular, totally normal and regular circumstances.
    feel free to choose your own semantics, however.



  • When facing archers as my vanguard main, I make sure to Sidewind. It’s pretty effective.



  • Pub is short for public game.

    CQC I’ve never heard of before but I’m assuming given the context it means close quarter combat.

    I play all classes. But a vanguard is actually worse than a man At arms against an archer. Vanguards also get two shotted by most of the archers primaries. One shot headshots. But in melee a vanguard can quickly lose his range advantage and be overwhelmed by an archers fast attacks. A man at arms has a damage advantage over an archer and sometimes a rang advantage. Speeds are too similar. A man at arms can two hit an archer with most of his weapons. For an archer it takes 3 mostly. Sometimes 4.

    As an archer I can destroy knights and vanguards, and most other archers but I usually catch them when they aren’t looking. A man at arms can be very challenging. Unless he depends on his shield or he just sucks. I find the sabre is better for a man at arms but even then its a hard fight.

    Against all other classes its a walk in the park



  • @Deadpan:

    yes, because everyone picks Vanguard because it’s such a weak class, eh? yeah.

    and i did not make a rock-paper-scissor cycle of individual match-ups between classes in one-on-one situations. neither did Soc. you tell me how Archer beats MAA, eh? go on then.

    Vanguard is almost always the most picked, and almost always tops the charts, and heavy Vanguard teams usually beat low Vanguard teams.

    they just tend to be chosen by whiny players that pick the most vulnerable class because it has the most power and then complain the whole forums to shit that it’s vulnerable and they occasionally die too suddenly between their sprees of rapid kills.

    People pick vanguard because it’s easy to play, not because they’re “good.” Last patch you never picked vanguard, you were inferior to knights. This patch you pick vanguard because knights are inferior to them. But vanguards can’t win against good archers or MaAs, no matter how good the vanguard is. This is, of course, speaking if they’re not using spear-class or claymore, as they’re confirmed to be getting nerfed so they’re invalid. Even with spears/claymore, a good archer won’t miss in the first place and good MaAs can control their stamina much better to bait out claymore combos.

    Archer beats MaA no problem. Heavy crossbow torso shot oneshots MaA. Heater shields don’t even cover much. Archer is the only thing better than MaA.

    Archer’s only threat are other archers. Will never be in melee, and even if they are, they still are more scary in melee than any vanguard or knight. MaAs only threat are archers and other MaAs, they’re designed to never take damage. Vanguards can beat knights a lot easier now due to stamina changes, knock back, pole hammer buffs, and longsword/SoW nerfs. Knights lose to everyone unless they can manage to hit trade consistently with maul or messer.

    Vanguards are the easiest class to play, therefore the most common, especially with their recent buffs. A good archer and MaA will always mow down vanguards no problem and can most definitely “top the boards” way easier and more often when they’re skilled. A skilled archer/MaA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a skilled vanguard/knight.



  • @lemonater47:

    Pub is short for public game.

    CQC I’ve never heard of before but I’m assuming given the context it means close quarter combat.

    I play all classes. But a vanguard is actually worse than a man At arms against an archer. Vanguards also get two shotted by most of the archers primaries. One shot headshots. But in melee a vanguard can quickly lose his range advantage and be overwhelmed by an archers fast attacks. A man at arms has a damage advantage over an archer and sometimes a rang advantage. Speeds are too similar. A man at arms can two hit an archer with most of his weapons. For an archer it takes 3 mostly. Sometimes 4.

    As an archer I can destroy knights and vanguards, and most other archers but I usually catch them when they aren’t looking. A man at arms can be very challenging. Unless he depends on his shield or he just sucks. I find the sabre is better for a man at arms but even then its a hard fight.

    Against all other classes its a walk in the park

    Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

    Lately, I’ve been creeping around with a thrusting dagger and shanking people just for fun as an archer. It’s really rewarding to play with a stealth aspect to this game, especially against real people.

    Most vanguards and knights are easy mode for me with my cudgel or dagger. There are a few that will kill me (rayzel and +Cross+ for instance) but MAA and other archers always kick my ass, unless they’re new.



  • @SOC:

    Archer’s only threat are other archers. Will never be in melee, and even if they are, they still are more scary in melee than any vanguard or knight. MaAs only threat are archers and other MaAs, they’re designed to never take damage. […] A skilled archer/MaA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a skilled vanguard/knight.

    Funny that in all the pro tournaments Ive seen on youtube they mostly go 1 archer some MAA, but almost always min 50% vanguard or knight…



  • @Towe:

    @SOC:

    Archer’s only threat are other archers. Will never be in melee, and even if they are, they still are more scary in melee than any vanguard or knight. MaAs only threat are archers and other MaAs, they’re designed to never take damage. […] A skilled archer/MaA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a skilled vanguard/knight.

    Funny that in all the pro tournaments Ive seen on youtube they mostly go 1 archer some MAA, but almost always min 50% vanguard or knight…

    Clan battles and duels/pubs are completely different things. Knights are far more valuable in clan battles and vanguards are now too because of their team support role. You’re not going to be doing much team support in pubs/dueling.

    The vast majority of players posting here are talking about pubs/dueling, not clan battles. You don’t get team coordinated everyone on voice chat pre-planned strategy 100% teamwork in pubs/duels.


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