Are Archers bugging you down?



  • (i would put this in Tactics and Tutorials, but i’d have to suggest a new Tag first, and err…)

    because so many people are complaining about Archers killing them being OP, too common, or unfair or funbreaking, even going so far as to say it conflicts with this being a melee oriented game (though to be honest, it’s called Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, not Chivalry: Melee Warfare, and i’m pretty sure archers were a very essential part of medieval warfare), while i myself have more issue with Vanguards than Archers (though, truth be told, Archers too can be too much, too often)…

    well, feel free (very free) to write me a similar guide on how to deal with Vanguards, but i figured i’d do my best to share some ideas some people might have missed on how to be less vulnerable to Archers.
    some notes beforehand:

    ! * this is focussed on how to deal with Bowmen and Crossbowmen, though much of it will also be useful against Slings and Javelins (or even melee classes with throwing knives/axes).
    ! * this is obviously not fail-safe. good Archers will still be able to hit you and even bad Archers might still sometimes get lucky, and at times they will still be annoying as hell and just too much. this is about being less vulnerable to Archers, not _in_vulnerable.
    ! * much of this advice you’ll probably already be very aware of, but perhaps there’s something new in it for you. some of this advice should be useful against Achers in general, other specifically for situations where there’s too many of them. feel free to try out or ignore advice as suits you, anyway.
    ! * i think many of you might, whether aware of it or not, be bothered that all these options are only defensive ones, and i think that’s what bothers people about Archers anyway: they’re used to being able to be aggressive. probably in other games they’ve honed their instincts to shoot the enemy before they shoot you, and are now struck by having to develop defensive instincts. such is asymetric combat.
    ! * i have no idea if any of this would work in FFA or duel modes. in fact i don’t really care.
    ! * feel free to critique and/or add as you feel like.

    1: never walk in a straight line towards or from an Archer with his ranged weapon ready to shoot.
    2: have a shield with you and equip it when there’s at least one Archer in front of you who might be targeting you. also, put it on your back whenever the enemy Archers are behind you or even to your right, or when there are only melee enemies in front, but there are ally Archers behind you.
    3: when you press the block button with your shield equiped, try moving it up and/or down a bit, to make it harder for the enemy Archers to shoot you in the head or foot.
    4: try to keep all the enemy Archers to one side, and keep your mind on that side and always be moving laterally to that direction, and/or (if you have one) try to keep your shield on that side (note: when your shield is in your left arm, that means your shield is carried at roughly an Obama angle, slighly to the left of center, moreso when lowered, but also when blocking).
    5: use the terrain for cover. this does not mean standing still behind an object while pressing the crouch button. that is cowering, not using cover. using cover is just minimising your exposure time. choose a path of movement where as much of your path as possible will have the line of sight between the enemy archer(s) and you broken by objects like rocks, pillars, houses, enemies, allies, anything. even while fighting, you might try positioning yourself thusly.
    6: never stand still. always keep moving, and always use at least three of your directional keys to do so, and do so in irregular patterns.
    7: duck and jump at your convenience, especially unpredictably. beware though that any half-decent Archer will anticipate your landing after a jump, so try not to be obvious about it. although you might prefere to look at the enemy Archers and:
    8: when you see a missile flying your way, you won’t have much time, but it should still be enough time to dodge the missile by 1) using the MAA Dodge ability (especially with the one-button-Dodge); 2) using the strafe keys; 3) turning almost 90° and running diagonally away from the projectile; 4) Jump; 5) Superduck (press the Duck key while moving your mouse rapidly downwards). but whatever you do, don’t try to parry the projectile with a weapon; you’re not a Fantasy Samurai hero.
    9: when in melee combat with an enemy, try to keep your enemy in a direct line between you and the enemy Archers; similarly, you might try preventing the enemy from doing the same with you.
    10: you can also try to use your allies’ shields for cover, whether or not they’re using those shields or just carrying them on their back.
    11: when in a melee engagement with an Archer, and they have their Secondary weapon in their hand, change tactics and kite them; don’t let them facehug! and watch your stamina.
    12: when you have ally Archers, and you’re moving towards or fighting with your enemies, try to stay outside of a direct line between your enemies and your allies, so it’s easier for your ally Archers to miss you.
    13: throw a Smoke-pot between where the melee brawl is happening, and where the enemy Archers would be firing from, to hinder their air-support.
    14: just like in FPSs, keep a mental note of where enemy archers are or could be firing from, even though you can’t fire back, you can do as described above especially at #4 through #9.



  • Whilst I appreciate the sentiment…

    I dont need you to tell me how to deal with archers. Despite this, I am still perfectly able to moan about there being 10 of the little fuckers on each team in most games.



  • Would advise putting in more paragraph spaces (or labelling with headings), also use double paragraph spaces between list items, else it doesn’t show any at all and looks clumped.

    Let me know if you want this moving into Tacs & Tutorials. Would suggest [ARCH] (since it concerns them) or [MECH] (General use of mechanics to deal with them).



  • Good job putting this together, hopefully this helps some newer players start bridging the gap of casual to competitive.



  • Many of the points you brought up are becoming irrelevant because an increasing amount of archers are starting to discover that the most efficient means of using their weapons is to shotgun with them. (Shoot for the head at point-blank range). The vast majority of the archers arsenal will either OHK on a headshot or leave the victim with 2 pixels worth of health left so they will die if you even fart at them. This is especially the case of bow and javelin archers because they can usually outrun you and will just run away when you get close and wait for you to close the gap again so they can shotgun you again if they missed the first time. Even if their attempt to hit your head fails and hits your chest or something, they will just pull out their lightning-fast daggers and make short work of what remaining health you have.



  • @Goden:

    Many of the points you brought up are becoming irrelevant because an increasing amount of archers are starting to discover that the most efficient means of using their weapons is to shotgun with them. (Shoot for the head at point-blank range). The vast majority of the archers arsenal will either OHK on a headshot or leave the victim with 2 pixels worth of health left so they will die if you even fart at them. This is especially the case of bow and javelin archers because they can usually outrun you and will just run away when you get close and wait for you to close the gap again so they can shotgun you again if they missed the first time. Even if their attempt to hit your head fails and hits your chest or something, they will just pull out their lightning-fast daggers and make short work of what remaining health you have.

    use smoke bombs as vanguard,shield as knight,dodge as MAA and don’t expect every archer to bow and let you get the kill on the first strike,but most of the time by using a feint you will.
    If you still hate archers join a server with no archers allowed and start complaining about something else being op :)



  • shotgunning is not easy. yes the target is big, but when you move the change in direction where you are from them will also change a lot. duck, jump, strafe will be very effective.

    but you can’t have been that close if they can line up, fire, switch weapons and stab.

    two notes: 1: you’re obviously a Knight, and seem to not use a shield. that would be the the hardest class to chase down Archers with. 2: there will be a chase bonus in the next patch.



  • @Triumphant:

    Whilst I appreciate the sentiment…

    I dont need you to tell me how to deal with archers. Despite this, I am still perfectly able to moan about there being 10 of the little fuckers on each team in most games.

    lol funny. imagine if all 10 of them edited their ini file to zoom to 60 FOV when aiming.



  • ^thanks for the tip! :twisted:



  • @gregcau:

    lol funny. imagine if all 10 of them edited their ini file to zoom to 60 FOV when aiming.

    How do I do that? :O



  • Good advice for players in a 1vA situation. Less relevant in comp where u usually have to fight through people to get to the archer in the first place but still good.

    Although in reference to it not being Chivalry: Melee Warfare, in Medieval times they had calvalry to counter archers. And TBS has stated there won’t be calvalry in Chiv. I am almost certain if there was a cav option that this wouldn’t be a discussion.



  • @Escadin:

    @gregcau:

    lol funny. imagine if all 10 of them edited their ini file to zoom to 60 FOV when aiming.

    How do I do that? :O

    documents/my games/chivalry medieval warfare/udkgame/config/udkgame

    Bindings=(Name="LeftAlt",Command="GBA_Zoom | fov 60 | onrelease fov 120",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False,bIgnoreCtrl=False,bIgnoreShift=False,bIgnoreAlt=False,Flag=KBFlag_Weapon,FriendlyName="Zoom")
    

    but don’t use it on me



  • @HeightofAbsurdity:

    Good advice for players in a 1vA situation. Less relevant in comp where u usually have to fight through people to get to the archer in the first place but still good.

    Although in reference to it not being Chivalry: Melee Warfare, in Medieval times they had calvalry to counter archers. And TBS has stated there won’t be calvalry in Chiv. I am almost certain if there was a cav option that this wouldn’t be a discussion.

    Well… if you want to bring realism into the formula. Archers would 1 shot people.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Well… if you want to bring realism into the formula. Archers would 1 shot people.

    depends on the quality of the armour



  • @gregcau:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Well… if you want to bring realism into the formula. Archers would 1 shot people.

    depends on the quality of the armour

    And the distance. No worries though I don’t think we’re even in the same server region. ;)



  • in Medieval times they had calvalry to counter archers. And TBS has stated there won’t be calvalry in Chiv. I am almost certain if there was a cav option that this wouldn’t be a discussion.

    well, trueish. many of the maps are situations where cavalry would not suffice to counter archers, as horses can’t really climb very well.



  • The problem with archers isn’t necessarily how strong they are, it’s more simple than that; they make the game MUCH less fun for everyone else. Melee fighting sucks when you’re having half the enemy team shooting at you, and half your team shooting at your opponent trying to steal your kill, it’s just stressful.

    I would hazard a guess that the current archer situation is the main reason for new players not sticking around. This could easily be fixed with archer caps on servers, but there seem to be very few of them left. When Crushed had his archer free server, the chat was usually full of people talking about how much more fun it was without archers, and that was before they were turned into flawless killing machines!

    TB, please do some official servers with 25% archer cap.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @HeightofAbsurdity:

    Good advice for players in a 1vA situation. Less relevant in comp where u usually have to fight through people to get to the archer in the first place but still good.

    Although in reference to it not being Chivalry: Melee Warfare, in Medieval times they had calvalry to counter archers. And TBS has stated there won’t be calvalry in Chiv. I am almost certain if there was a cav option that this wouldn’t be a discussion.

    Well… if you want to bring realism into the formula. Archers would 1 shot people.

    1. As mentioned above, 1 shotting through plate armor… I don’t know about that.

    2. I don’t want to bring realism into this… That was the entire reason for my bringing up the absurdity of doing so…

    Nonetheless, this is tangential to the thread. Just a side note to the OP.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @HeightofAbsurdity:

    Good advice for players in a 1vA situation. Less relevant in comp where u usually have to fight through people to get to the archer in the first place but still good.

    Although in reference to it not being Chivalry: Melee Warfare, in Medieval times they had calvalry to counter archers. And TBS has stated there won’t be calvalry in Chiv. I am almost certain if there was a cav option that this wouldn’t be a discussion.

    Well… if you want to bring realism into the formula. Archers would 1 shot people.

    viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16041#p166505

    Check out the b guy’s posts.



  • if you want to talk realism, the arrows wouldn’t even penetrate the knight, he would just run through all that shit and arrows would bounce off. Only crossbows would really penetrate at any sort of distance, but it would even have to be close for those.

    And good tips OP, i think as height said you have to usually fight through melee to get to the archers though, especially in pubs because they’re all near their spawn somewhere just hanging out letting their balls air out from their loincloths.


Log in to reply