Dark Forest is unfairly tough to defend



  • It’s incredibly difficult to defend the Queen’s family. Perhaps make the wooden doors harder to break?



  • @Magnificent:

    It’s incredibly difficult to defend the Queen’s family. Perhaps make the wooden doors harder to break?

    I think the main thing as to why it’s so difficult to defend is archers shooting the last peasant(s).



  • The first 2 objectives are harder for attacking. More so the first objective.



  • No objective in the game is too hard to defend, not even first objective of Stoneshill.

    At least for solo pubbing.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    The first 2 objectives are harder for attacking. More so the first objective.

    I’d say 2nd and 3rd. By first two did you mean both the first and second together as one+the third?



  • Defending them is not easy but by no means “unfairly hard”. Its perfectly possible to hold off enemies by defending chokepoints.

    If done right the attackers need proper artillery support to break through. Even then you are able to hold the last one as the catapults just barely lack the reach. Just don’t fool around and keep your caves covered. The last cave (unreachable by catapult fire) is the most important the one right at the bridge-tree-thing is the least important.

    For “unfairly hard to defend” play Hillside - the first stage is hard (Agatha needs to defend the pyre for a very short duration), the second harder (trebuchets go down so fast), the last almost impossible (Mason ships are paper ships that even sink when you only pierce some holes into their sails).
    And don’t even speak about trying to defend Malric (that one is more of a bonus stage).

    On the other side - making it harder for the attackers isn’t that bad. Especially as it is the last stage - it adds some challenge.



  • @Jstorm:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    The first 2 objectives are harder for attacking. More so the first objective.

    I’d say 2nd and 3rd. By first two did you mean both the first and second together as one+the third?

    By first two i meant both cart pushings.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Jstorm:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    The first 2 objectives are harder for attacking. More so the first objective.

    I’d say 2nd and 3rd. By first two did you mean both the first and second together as one+the third?

    By first two i meant both cart pushings.

    I’d say the first cart pushing is harder on defending and the second is harder on attacking. Then the third is harder on attacking and fourth is harder on defending. Maybe it’s just me.



  • @Jstorm:

    I’d say the first cart pushing is harder on defending

    Once defending team wipes mason, its easy to hold if you push up towards their spawn. Especially if you control the ammo box. Also, agatha has the 2nd ammo box (toward left side spawn) in case the 2nd half push happens.

    There’s no real place to flank in that part of the map, and almost impossible to sneak around for ninjas, making defense really easy.

    Most of the scrims we do on Dark Forest involves us stopping the enemy from even getting past the first objective. Most people who have ever scrimmed us is well aware of this.



  • Its only tough because of lack of coordination. On pubs I try to get someone to help me defend the furthest away royal family. If you can hold that against sneak attackers they have far enough to run to make it balanced once you lose the other two families.

    But yes its generally in favor of the attackers, but not enough that I care.



  • If you wanna win dark forest don’t let the attackers make it to the last stage. You have 3 other very good chances to stymie them before it gets that far.



  • In competitive play I think darkforest is actually one of the harder maps to finish. Botch a few attacks on the first objective and it’s pretty much over. However, getting to the last objective, even only just, usually gives you plenty of time to finish.



  • The maps don’t have to be balanced between offence and defence for comp play. And as long as one doesn’t heavily favor kills/deaths one way or another, it shouldn’t matter much for pubs either.



  • @dpunk:

    The maps don’t have to be balanced between offence and defence for comp play. And as long as one doesn’t heavily favor kills/deaths one way or another, it shouldn’t matter much for pubs either.

    A bit annoying for pubs though if you always get lumped on the losing team because the map heavily favours one side.



  • @dpunk:

    The maps don’t have to be balanced between offence and defence for comp play. And as long as one doesn’t heavily favor kills/deaths one way or another, it shouldn’t matter much for pubs either.

    Well, it does. If everyone DNFs on the first objective because it’s just too hard for anyone to do then it’s a useless map for playing as you can never tell who did better. Not saying that’s what happens at the moment, but it is a consideration.



  • At least for me, I feel as though Dark Forest is probably one of the better balanced TO maps in rotation. The first three stages, especially the sluice gates, heavily favor the defenders, so it is only fair that the last stage is relatively easier for the attackers. That being said, I have seen very effective defenses of the Dirty Queen’s family members. The trick is utilizing pavises and knight tower shields directly in front of the peasants, while having the rest of your team range far enough out and around to prevent melee from simply running in and lmbing unwounded.

    Edit: For public games that is, there are different levels of strategies in comp play.



  • I think hillside is hard to defend in pub matches. Agatha steamrolls are common. It I don’t yell stuff in team chat we often lose. As hillside actually requires the defenders to coordinate or at least know what they are doing.

    With dark forest its pretty easy to defend. The sluice Gate can be lost fast if the masons are fast enough. And if the family at the back is left till last it can be rather hard for the attackers. Especially if some of the defenders know about the back way. A vanguard charge as I recall counts as two hits on a door. And with the door open on several occasions I have literally waltzed in and just killed some royals before the agathians realise. Its a pretty funny. The agathians are inside doing some battlecry or they are AFK and a mason vanguard comes in and starts killing. In fact on one match a guy with. A maul had moved a Family member out of the cave and was just about to get him in the bottom floor of their spawn. And he was the last one too. Though he got killed by an archer. Much to the dismay of the maul knight. The maul could hit him the furthest.


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