The Grand Mace in comparison to other knight main's



  • So i was trying various knight main’s the past few weeks,cause i find that the Long Sword is a bit too weak now (my opinion).
    Anyway,so i was trying out different things,and one thing i found out is that the Grand Mace really doesn’t have a place in the knights arsenal.
    Now,i myself do enjoy playing with the weapon,but it just isn’t effective vs anything except knights(where the maul completely trumps it)
    Now in comparison to the Pole Axe,there is no reason to use the Grand Mace.
    The pole axe has faster Release times,faster Combo times and a much faster,viable and unpredictable stab and it is longer as well.
    The grandmace has a faster wind up,it deals more blunt damage, and has a wider hit-box(unless i am imagining things),but that’s basically it,also the increased release times are not enough to make the weapon dragable,unless in some extreme cases of alt slashes
    Now,it’s pretty obvious that the pole axe is better vs the 3 other classes (unless you can get a GM overhead on an archer),but it’s not worse than the Grand Mace vs Knights,just because of the sheer speed and unpredictability of the Overhead + Stab combo.
    I am not saying the Pole Axe needs a nerf,but what i am saying is that the Grand Mace needs some sort of a buff,and not the kind of buff that speeds up wind ups,since they are already fast.
    Maybe longer release times(to make the weapon a bit more dragable) + faster comboing ?
    Anyway that was my opinion on the Grand Mace,feel free to correct me anywhere i was wrong.



  • Grandmace is a fine weapon. I’ll leave it to someone else to explain why, :)



  • I actually find my self doing better with it than the pole axe, or maybe about equal. The range on the grand mace feels longer to me. Maybe that’s because I’ve used the grand mace a ton since before its buffs so now that it’s nerfed again it feels pretty comfortable again.

    I’m not sure it needs any buffs, but other knight weapons need nerfing to bring it all together. As bad as knights are of this patch, they don’t need buffs through weapons. Other classes need fundamental changes.



  • @Oy:

    Grandmace is a fine weapon. I’ll leave it to someone else to explain why, :)

    Why did you even waste time commenting ?
    @SOC
    I feel more comfortable with the Grand Mace as well,but i think that is because of the wide hit boxes,since pole axe has small/precise hitboxes.
    And i agree with you that Knight weapons don’t need buffing,well except GrandMace and Shielded Knights(LongSword nerfs were also uncalled for).
    But it feels like it’s useless against everything except knights,plus it is very underused,at least in EU.
    I haven’t seen GM knight in a long time.



  • I personally perfer the grand mace over the maul. And the double axe for that matter.



  • @Shard:

    @SOC
    I feel more comfortable with the Grand Mace as well,but i think that is because of the wide hit boxes,since pole axe has small/precise hitboxes.
    And i agree with you that Knight weapons don’t need buffing,well except GrandMace and Shielded Knights(LongSword nerfs were also uncalled for).
    But it feels like it’s useless against everything except knights,plus it is very underused,at least in EU.
    I haven’t seen GM knight in a long time.

    Yep, I’ve always said the pole axe comes out like a flash, and the grand mace “stays out” longer with its damageable hitboxes. Both are good things depending on how you use it, double overheads on the pole axe will be faster than the double overhead on the grand mace, but the grand mace can be harder to read sometimes because of it. I don’t think it needs any buffs, really. It just feels like crap at the moment because of how chase mechanic and combo feint to parry were changed and removed. I agree that shields need changing and longsword nerfs need reverting. You’re much better off using the longsword 1h now than 2h.

    The problems I have with grand mace aren’t the grand mace’s fault. It’s the fundamental changes of the game that made it really difficult to use effectively now.

    And this is talking from a pub perspective, not a duel/clan battle.



  • One of my friends can absolutely crush with the grand mace. I, however, am REALLY good at using the maul (in team play). Played citadel as Mason and went 50 and 15 with the maul, and the other team had some pretty good players.



  • @Event:

    One of my friends can absolutely crush with the grand mace. I, however, am REALLY good at using the maul (in team play). Played citadel as Mason and went 50 and 15 with the maul, and the other team had some pretty good players.

    The maul is one of those weapons where either you suck at it or are really good with it. There’s no in between with that weapons.

    I suck with the maul.

    Same thing for daggers. I’m pretty much allergic to daggers. I can’t use them and I always die to them.



  • @lemonater47:

    @Event:

    One of my friends can absolutely crush with the grand mace. I, however, am REALLY good at using the maul (in team play). Played citadel as Mason and went 50 and 15 with the maul, and the other team had some pretty good players.

    The maul is one of those weapons where either you suck at it or are really good with it. There’s no in between with that weapons.

    I suck with the maul.

    Same thing for daggers. I’m pretty much allergic to daggers. I can’t use them and I always die to them.

    I’m horrible with the maul in 1v1 especially against MAA. My strategy is to keep comboing until I get parried or hit. The other guy usually makes his own fate by running into an unexpected overhead. Feinting with the maul is hit or miss since the other guy will usually have plenty of time to get a second parry in (dragging can get around that, but I’m bad at dragging atm). The maul is also great at winning the stamina war if the other guy parries all my attacks, and you may as well kiss your life goodbye if you’re using a shield against me.

    Funny thing is that I usually main vanguard with zweihander, but I do much better as a part of my team with the maul… less TKs, a great finisher (someone with a dagger only need to get one hit on even a knight and I can finish him for good), and a great damage dealer (I deal the first overhead, support maa/vanguard comes in for the final hit).



  • Mace is probably the only weapon where you can block 100% it even with stupid feints.
    A messer would do much better job 2 hits knight and vaginaguard. 1 hits the rest even with slash.
    Incredible good at draging. After they fucked up my longsword I went to messer and it replaces it incredible well, if not even better



  • I did some experimenting with the Grand Mace the Double Axe and the Pole Axe. All three are able to kill Knights with two overhead strikes and are about the same speed class.
    Other than this the Pole Axe stands out because of its verstility. A weaker but faster slash attack. An overhead strong enough to deal with Knights. And a powerful stab that works perfectly with its reach. On the other side it does lack the other weapons punch not being able to oneshot any class. You also need more precision to use it.
    The Grand Mace trades the stab and some reach for striking power. If aimed right only a single strike is needed to take out light classes. Its attacks are draggable and relatively short windup times give you an edge in fights. In return a long combo windup makes it less suited for chaining attacks.
    The Double Axe goes even further in this direction. Even more damage against light classes - Archers die from a single overhead or a slash to the head - but low range. Windup is longer than the Grand Maces but both combo and recovery times are shorter. More of a niche weapon but its added damage though barely noticable against heavy classes comes handy from time to time (e.g. when some Archer assists his Knight buddy in melee against you).

    The other Knight weapons play different roles. The Maul is a big crushing tool for damage support. The swords combine good reach, speed and versatility at the cost of damage output against heavier classes. The Warhammer is your close-up anti-Knight tool (Flails are similar but just weaker). And the Bearded Axe is your speed specialist - somebody compared it to a angry short person. Basically an oversized Hatchet.



  • Grand Mace release is most assuredly slow enough to be draggable. It’s as slow as the maul - unless you’re saying the maul of all things is not draggable.



  • @Shard:

    @Oy:

    Grandmace is a fine weapon. I’ll leave it to someone else to explain why, :)

    Why did you even waste time commenting ?
    @SOC
    I feel more comfortable with the Grand Mace as well,but i think that is because of the wide hit boxes,since pole axe has small/precise hitboxes.
    And i agree with you that Knight weapons don’t need buffing,well except GrandMace and Shielded Knights(LongSword nerfs were also uncalled for).
    But it feels like it’s useless against everything except knights,plus it is very underused,at least in EU.
    I haven’t seen GM knight in a long time.

    I have the right to comment, sorry for using it Herrr Fuhrer. I’m just adding my two cents that I approve of Grand Mace.



  • I agree with OP on some points, but overall I find the Grand Mace is a good weapon. It performs better against knights than the Pole Axe. Against Vanguards they are about equal. And against the lighter classes the Pole Axe will usually do better.



  • I love how every competitive knight is still mostly using 2h swords after the patch ;)



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    I love how every competitive knight is still mostly using 2h swords after the patch ;)

    It’s all they’re used to. Ahaha.

    I main vanguard but if I ever go knight, I’m using the maul.

    Hammer time!



  • The pole axes isn’t really better against the light classes per say
    Due to its tiny hit boxes and long recovery time and no advantage of using it over the broad against maa/archer except for the range



  • @Lg:

    The pole axes isn’t really better against the light classes per say
    Due to its tiny hit boxes and long recovery time and no advantage of using it over the broad against maa/archer except for the range

    Those pole-axe stabs can be super subtle at times, especially if you’re good at hiding animations. Great weapon to catch people off-guard with. The riposte stabs especially.



  • Poleaxe can do some wicked kills on MAA. they always leap right into its sweet spot. BOOM, red mist.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Grand Mace release is most assuredly slow enough to be draggable. It’s as slow as the maul - unless you’re saying the maul of all things is not draggable.

    The maul is not a very good weapon to drag with. In fact, none of the maces are. The reason for this is not the release time, but the mouse movement cap, which for some reason is different for different weapons, and for maces it is extremely limiting.

    What’s worse is that the maul has a higher sensitivity cap than the grand mace. WHY?

    From the SDK:

    MAUL:

    HorizontalRotateSpeed=50000.0
    VerticalRotateSpeed=45000.0
    
    

    GRANDMACE:

    HorizontalRotateSpeed=45000.0
    VerticalRotateSpeed=45000.0
    
    

    For comparison, here’s a draggable weapon: the messer (or equivalently, longsword). Same release time, but far superior movement caps:

    HorizontalRotateSpeed=55000.0
    VerticalRotateSpeed=55000.0
    
    

    To efficiently delay a weapon you need to be able to make the opponent think it is a fast attack, otherwise he will simply parry late and it won’t work. One way to do this is by starting an overhead as accelerated, then dragging it upwards after/just before the parry. Condition your enemy with a purely accelerated overhead and you’re set for a successful delayed attack. Similarly (worse technique, can be countered by jump parry, is slowed down by sensitivity caps too much and can invite hit-trades), you could start the attack in a delayed state then suddenly move it downwards sometimes to turn it into an accelerated one, making your opponent guess which one it is.

    That said, with the maul I’ve found the best approach is to feign a delayed attack, but then turn horizontally to make it a backswing (alternatively, start with backswing and turn around). This bypasses the vertical movement restrictions because it exclusively relies on horizontal movement, but it’s riskier than the above approach, since you lose sight of your opponent.

    To make the grandmace more viable, I suggest giving it higher movement caps, possibly better than the maul to compensate for the loss of 1 HTK on all classes.


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