No point in bows anymore



  • Ok, the crossbows definitely need a nerf because right now, I can’t find any reason, why I should chose a bow over a crossbow.

    The crossbow arrow flies like a bullet. It’s an easy to use, ridiculous sniper rifle right now. I keep doing headshots over the entire map without any difficulty.

    Over long distances, it is ridiculously overpowered - nearly no arrow drop rate (Well perhaps when you shoot from one end of the map to the other)
    The arrow speed is so unbelievably fast, that an archer with a bow can barely dodge my arrows, even over long distances. I just aim a tiny bit in front of him since the arrow flies so fast. But most of the bow users won’t hit me anyway since they have so much more arrow drop.

    Next is mid range to close range: Most people say against an archer you run zic zac or do some weird moves so that he can’t aim at you. But well when my sensitivity is high enough and my crosshair is over the enemy for a tiny bit of time, I just press lmb and hit him, since the arrow speed is so fast that it hits instantly.
    Not even Man-at-arms are able to avoid it although they have that overpowered(against other melee classes) movement speed buff. And as Knight don’t even try to evade the arrows without a shield but well - thats just fair since Crossbows should be effective against heavy armoured units.

    But the effectiveness against melee units is not the point - The point is, that there is no reason to chose a bow instead of a crossbow because it has only advantages.

    You might say that you need to take cover to reload - but well any archer should use cover from time to time - besides that, there is plenty of cover on every map so I can’t find any arguments why I should count that as a real disadvantage.

    Then there is the reloading time which is not really much slower than a bow. The first crossbow has about the same reloading time as the warbow but its more efficient because it has the same effectiveness against all targets.
    As warbow user you have to chose an arrow type first, which is another disadvantage for bows.
    Chose bodkin arrows with warbow and you do good damage against melee units, but an archer still takes two shots unless you make a headshot, which is not that easy, as long as you don’t use a crossbow. Take broadheads and you kill archers with one shot ( as long as you dont hit their feet), but your effectiveness against Knights or Vanguards suffers. With a crossbow you don’t have that problem at all.

    Besides that shortbows are still useless, I wonder if the slingshot might be more efficient now since it gained a buff.

    So what do beginners do? They pick bows, laugh hard at the arrow drop rate + speed, take crossbow instead with which they kill melee units without any trouble because it feels like a gun. Then the melee fighters start to rage since it is so easy to hit them with crossbow , pick archer with crossbow instead and the circle repeats.

    Thank you for reading through my rage post.



  • bows are still stronger.



  • Xbows most certainly need a nerf. Their projectile speeds need to be reverted to their values pre-patch. I would almost argue that the reload time increase should also be toned down, but they should just start with the speed nerf and see how that affects the meta as bows are still very powerful.

    Warbow might need some adjustments to make the other bows more attractive options.



  • I dunno but since patch I really hate how the bow shoot…just feels harder to calculate the distance and guess where the enemy will be when he’s far away! also crossbow reload is the same as reloadin an arrow of an xbow, I don’t see how the reload time of a crossbow is an handicap, especially when they got the pavisse to cover them…



  • bows are still stronger.

    I don’t want to offend you but do you have some arguments for that?



  • @Thatpeskymaa:

    bows are still stronger.

    I don’t want to offend you but do you have some arguments for that?

    They offer pretty comparable damage output, range, and far greater mobility.



  • I prefer the warbow, heavy xbow and you have to take cover, warbow you can strife left and right while reloading. Makes a big difference. Plus looking down to reload you dont see people moving up on you or an archer aiming at you.



  • Yeah, thats true. I prefer the warbow too but only because i’m used to it. But strifing left or right while reloading doesn’t really help against crossbow archers when they are a bit skilled. Due to the arrow speed it is easy to hit you anyways with it. They don’t have to guess as much as a bow archer has to. The reloading disadvantage is only a real disadvantage when you don’t have any cover or teammates around you. And there is always plenty of cover on the maps. Of course in ffa it’s a disadvantage but besides that I still see no real advantage for the bow.



  • @Thatpeskymaa:

    but besides that I still see no real advantage for the bow.

    Generally a high refire rate is what makes it a better weapon. Refire rate : Damage -> melee support.

    Generally, light crossbow is pretty freaking sweet now due to the fast reload time, but not good for counter arching, and reload can screw you over sometimes. You can go normal crossbow specifically to counter-arch due to the pavise and generally the other archer can’t do jack squat against you, but you offer less melee support slightly.

    Heavy crossbow is specifically to counter man-at-arms if they have a MAA heavy team. Simply forcing them to go shield is a win, because no firepot = lol.

    Warbow can counter-archer with broads and still offer good melee support. Pick bodkins and its especially deadly melee support, but unable to counter-arch. Longbow bodkins can also fill a good melee support role having good damage and high refire.

    In general, bows offer the best damage : refire rate and range ratio but take slightly more skill to aim the shot than a xbow. XBows are generally easier to take shots with and less predictable, so it may be a more desirable pickup for newer archers.

    I’d say the Xbows got a much needed buff. Now to see what javelins can get. Perhaps the light crossbow may have gotten too much? Can’t say for sure.



  • archers are quite possibly the worst killer of fun in the game for me, i think they deserve a nerf period. At least arrow damage… ffs it’s ridiculous. plus, it used to take skill to be a good archer, now someone like me can pick up a bow and do freaking awesome with it whereas before i was the worlds worst archer. i’m still bad, but i can do great with it, even top the boards sometimes. It’s sad.



  • I recon it’d be more fun if they made it that:
    -increase the damage (1hit kills)
    -only 1 in 3 hits actually causes damage
    -1 in three hits glance off plate mail
    -the rest of the hits cause knock back.
    This would = the same HTK ratio as current, but reveal the power of platemail, it’d add an aspect of ‘luck’ (which is good for archery), make archery more fun for everyone.



  • Warbow is pretty OP, and shortbow is useful because you can shoot a knight 5 times before hes at you and then kite him while playing hit and run.
    guess longbow is OP too for obvious reasons.

    Actually, every archer wep is OP besides Pebble Sling. Consider getting good



  • @giantyak:

    I recon it’d be more fun if they made it that:
    -increase the damage (1hit kills)
    -only 1 in 3 hits actually causes damage
    -1 in three hits glance off plate mail
    -the rest of the hits cause knock back.
    This would = the same HTK ratio as current, but reveal the power of platemail, it’d add an aspect of ‘luck’ (which is good for archery), make archery more fun for everyone.

    1. Does that also count for Shortbows vs Knights? Horribly inchoate.
    2. Uhm, okay.
    3. This also only counts for Knights which would buff them but what about Vanguards? MAA would be pretty f*cked then. But these little bastards have shield so well.
    4. Oh god I can imagine how I’m being pissed off because I get knocked back 5 times in a row by spammy Archers just to get instakilled. Horrible scenario.

    Meh, as much as I agree that bows shouldn’t do that much damage to Knights I have to say that it’s not always about realism. I mean would a thrusting dagger do any significant damage to a plate armour (not talking about face or throat, plate armour)? NO! Does it do damage in Chiv? YES!

    Also that would nerf normal bows quite harashly whereas the crossbows…the crossbows…yeah what about them? Do they 1 hit Knights then?

    I don’t really know what to do about Archers except reducing damage (imo even the ability to interrupt any attack at any time even after windup is quite strong. And the 50% backstab bonus is a little overkill. I don’t want to get 2 hit by an Archer stabbing me in the arse). But atm it’s pisseasy and rewarding at the same time.
    And bows are more powerful than xbows, for more than obvious reasons that have been stated here way too often now. :P



  • @TheUndying:

    I mean would a thrusting dagger do any significant damage to a plate armour (not talking about face or throat, plate armour)? NO! Does it do damage in Chiv? YES!

    Actually, daggers were used often to get through plate and to attack their weak points quickly and efficiently, mostly after a heavily armored unit was grounded.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @TheUndying:

    I mean would a thrusting dagger do any significant damage to a plate armour (not talking about face or throat, plate armour)? NO! Does it do damage in Chiv? YES!

    Actually, daggers were used often to get through plate and to attack their weak points quickly and efficiently, mostly after a heavily armored unit was grounded.

    I know, the “dagger of mercy”. Stupid example on my side but I hope I got the point across. :P



  • An archer with broadheads and a warbow will beat many archers with HCBs.

    The warbow fires faster and slows down the enemy mores as they have to keep dodging. You can fire 3 shots with a warbow compared to one shot with a heavy crossbow. And the warbow also 2 hits knights and vanguards.



  • @TheUndying:

    @giantyak:

    I recon it’d be more fun if they made it that:
    -increase the damage (1hit kills)
    -only 1 in 3 hits actually causes damage
    -1 in three hits glance off plate mail
    -the rest of the hits cause knock back.
    This would = the same HTK ratio as current, but reveal the power of platemail, it’d add an aspect of ‘luck’ (which is good for archery), make archery more fun for everyone.

    ….

    But if its the same HTK then it can only be better then what it is now in the sense that:
    -bodkin arrows actually couldn’t penetrate steel plate mail (this has been scientifically proven). So you’re relying on the arrow, by chance, hitting a soft spot in the armour (if there is one).
    -Being hit by an arrow from a long bow/‘war bow’ is going to take you clean off your feet.

    My initial suggestion was just an idea not the outline for “How it will be in the next live patch”.



  • @lemonater47:

    An archer with broadheads and a warbow will beat many archers with HCBs.

    The warbow fires faster and slows down the enemy mores as they have to keep dodging. You can fire 3 shots with a warbow compared to one shot with a heavy crossbow. And the warbow also 2 hits knights and vanguards.

    Pavise is an effective option to force the archer to shoot melee only.



  • Just another horrible change since last patch, wonder if Torn Banners will realise their huuuge failure of a patch it was



  • THE ARMOR IS A LIE!


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