PLEASE fix archery!



  • After spending much more time with the game, it really has grown on me, and I’m finding it to better than AoC. But one thing is still bad about it: the archery. Make it more like AoC. Archery in Chiv feels weird. The crosshair, I think, ruins it somewhat. Maybe if the crosshair was a dot like it is for melee it would feel better, but right now it doesn’t even feel like where you aim it hits. In AoC, you could time the arrow perfectly to hit a running target. Now, I’ve tried it multiple time but the arrow never hits. The arrow goes too fast and basically teleports to where you are aiming at. Could you guys make it more like AoC, where you aim with the arrow, or the little thing sticking up out of the crossbow? Or just make the crosshair better? The crosshair now is bad, I think it should revert back to the dot like it use to be in earlier builds.



  • Im assuming the crosshair is to show how accurate your shot will be, when you crouch it goes really small compared to standing. If it was a dot it would make archery easier than it already is.

    I have no idea what your on about with the accuracy, i have no trouble at all hitting moving targets. archer is by far my best class, making it any easier would just make it so overpowered it would be gamebreaking.



  • That’s one thing I miss from AoC, the physical “crosshairs” like the arrow tip. :(



  • @Viper:

    That’s one thing I miss from AoC, the physical “crosshairs” like the arrow tip. :(

    Yeah, this is my point, and many others have said this as well. I think it should be like this again. AoC has the best archery in any game I’ve played. It felt right, and it felt much smoother in transition from drawing back to shooting. I think that’s another problem. The firing animations are too glitchy-feeling.



  • Maybe use the finger of left hand as “crosshead”?



  • Owww i’m really dissapointed that archery has a crosshair now! :(



  • You can turn it off if you want :P



  • @b3h47pte:

    You can turn it off if you want :P

    oh well that’s good but it’s not going to stop people mowing me down with super accurate shots.

    I understand that you guys have done it so that there’s a smaller learning curve.

    Will it be an option to turn off on certain servers? Could you not code it so that it goes away after say 30 hours of playing an archery class?



  • I don’t think the crosshairs are the reason people are more accurate. Projectiles are faster and straighter than in AoC. I think on a base level that’s fine - but IMO, projectile weapons should function differently from melee if they’re going to be as easy to pick up and use as they are now. Lower base damage, higher headshot multiplier - make precise shots count more and the ability to defend yourself from good archers better even with a small shield, since you can at least cover your head and chest and make them go for foot shots for considerably lower damage. I like that a good archer can hit your feet if you’re using anything smaller than a tower shield, but eventually there’ll be archers good enough to always hit your feet through your shield, and they will essentially be “uncounterable” by melee classes at that point.



  • @SlyGoat:

    I don’t think the crosshairs are the reason people are more accurate. Projectiles are faster and straighter than in AoC. I think on a base level that’s fine - but IMO, projectile weapons should function differently from melee if they’re going to be as easy to pick up and use as they are now. Lower base damage, higher headshot multiplier - make precise shots count more and the ability to defend yourself from good archers better even with a small shield, since you can at least cover your head and chest and make them go for foot shots for considerably lower damage. I like that a good archer can hit your feet if you’re using anything smaller than a tower shield, but eventually there’ll be archers good enough to always hit your feet through your shield, and they will essentially be “uncounterable” by melee classes at that point.

    You’re painting an image of ranged characters being quite overpowered, or at least with a large advantage over less experienced melee players. Is it time for me to put my longsword away and pick up a longbow?



  • Archery still isn’t hitscan or anything, and shields are still a very significant barrier, even the smallest of them, for an inexperienced archer. I just am already seeing archers who are accurate enough to hit someone’s legs through a kite shield. Seems like having a good archer or two on your team will be pretty much necessary in clan wars, unlike AoC where they were more often than not a detriment. So basically I’m just thinking from a competitive balance standpoint, making hitboxes matter more for projectiles will increase the skill ceiling of ranged combat without really effecting the general population in a negative way - people who want to one shot you with body hits will just have to move on to the heavy crossbow.

    Basically my feeling right now is that a good archer on a team that plays like a team (which is rare in the current beta environment, but I’ve played a huge amount of Chivalry already and have experienced it a couple times) is very much a force multiplier. The more melee fighters in a single clash, the less each additional melee fighter matters and the more each additional archer matters - with a bunch of people facing off in a melee, you can’t attack as frequently or as freely because you risk hitting your teammates, and you have less freedom of mobility as well. But these factors directly benefit archers, because you have more targets to choose from on the enemy side, and they have less room to avoid being in your line of fire.

    This is how I think it should be, mind you - archers are support and so they should work best in heavy engagements like this where they’re well protected and can do their worst - I’m just concerned that with the current damage you get on body hits with most ranged weapons, archers will be too necessary. Basically you would have archers on your team just because you have to, not because it’s part of your strategy or your team has particularly good archer players.

    I could be totally off base here, though. Just my initial impressions from the few times I’ve seen it in action. Will take a while of seeing how the competitive scene develops to know anything for certain.



  • I’m not sure why some people seem to think Crosshairs automatically mean people will generally be more accurate. I’ve heard quite a few people say that, but to me, it makes no sense. Archery in AoC was a lot easier than what it is in CMW - you put that tip of the arrow on an opponents head, and you’re guaranteed to hit it, and even at a fair distance, you only needed to be 1 or 2mm above the player’s head. In CMW, projectiles have spread, so two consecutive shots will never land in the exact same place (in theory, and the Crosshairs in CMW don’t accurately portray the correct spread - its much tigher than the Crosshairs would have you believe). As well as that, projectile paths are a lot more ‘realistic’ and I hesitate using that word, because the projectile paths in AOC were very ‘gamey’ - you’d think an arrow in AOC would be as light as a feather, and a Crossbow bolt made out of lead. Aside from that, I will always say the aiming system in AoC is far more unique, immersive and generally better than Crosshairs (I guess it’s a personal preference too, so I’m biased). My ideal way of doing it is by tips of arrows/bolts and fingers for the Javelin/thrown with a slight spread on them (just to curb ‘sniping’), which is increased when moving in any direction. The visual representation of the spread in the form of Crosshairs is unnecessary, the concept is simple enough - you move, you suffer a slightly accuracy loss.

    I don’t see ranged weapons on the whole as underpowered or overpowered though, but I still worry about their viability in competitive play. A good Knight will be more valuable than a good archer (1h balance issues aside) - at least, that’s the opinion I currently hold. I’m also not entirely sure why the Heavy Crossbow is having troubles 1 hit killing MAA/Vans, in fact, I even shot an archer with the Heavy Crossbow and surprisingly, he lived. I also never anticipated the Heavy Crossbow having the most range, it was supposed to be a medium ranged powerhouse in my mind. As is stands, some ranged weapons are treading on other ranged weapon’s toes and they’re having a bit of an identity crisis and without going deeper into specifics I also think the Light Crossbow is a better choice over the standard Crossbow in almost all cases.

    With shields, I believe the Tower shield should be the ultimate counter to any ranged weapon, if you stand in front of user holding their Tower shield up, you shouldn’t be able to find any gaps. Similarly with the Kite shield, except the lower legs being exposed (a small area to hit). Whilst MAA shields are still relatively good at defending against ranged weapons, they do have access to the ability to dodge, as well as being faster. They can also jump, and crouch and move forward, covering yourself better. Got a good archer aiming for your feet? Dodge, jump it or crouch and move forward - the only thing you should then worry about is dealing with the archer in melee. From what I was saying earlier, it could seem like hitting the legs deals very low damage already, especially if the Heavy Crossbow failed to kill that archer because of a leg shot.

    Another thing - moving whilst crouched with a ranged weapon grants the same accuracy as standing still with a ranged weapon, despite only moving 33% slower. I actually think you shouldn’t be forced to crouch to gain the most accuracy, just standing still should suffice. Afterall, you’re a bigger target when standing, and a smaller one when crouching and you have more accuracy because of it.

    The final point I want to make is switching weapons needs to be more reliable. I’m trying to gather a list of states which make it impossible to switch weapons during, but the one most bugging me is ‘empty crossbow whilst aiming’ state - you can switch during aim, but only if your Crossbow has a bolt in it. The funny thing is, you can switch instantly the moment you fire a Crossbow, but not if you wait a second or so.



  • Honestly, I think you should be able to switch weapons in any situation but three: While attacking, while recovering from a parry, and while recovering from a kick. Have your bow drawn and an arrow nocked and suddenly see an enemy emerge from behind a wall to your left? You should be able to immediately switch to your melee without having to press Q and wait for the bow to drop back down. Crossbow in aim mode? Same deal. Flinched by an attack? Shouldn’t matter.



  • ohhhhhhh, arrows were fixed, ganna be killin some archers.



  • I know you can disable the crosshair, but you’ll be even worse, as you don’t use the tip of the arrow like in AoC. I was suggesting reverting the crosshair back to the dot melee have, like it use to be in earlier builds. Maybe give crosshair options ala CS:S?



  • The melee has a dot? Oh boy.


  • Developer

    @Blackbird:

    @b3h47pte:

    You can turn it off if you want :P

    oh well that’s good but it’s not going to stop people mowing me down with super accurate shots.

    http://www.gearhack.com/Forums/DisplayC … oters.html


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