Casual vs competitive



  • I see this distinction come up a lot on the forums so i think it’s high time to define what everyone means by these terms.

    Traditionally, a casual player [1] is someone who does not have enough time or interest to delve deeply into the mechanics of a game.
    Contrarily, a competitive (or hardcore) player [2] invests more time and has the interest to dig deep into the game mechanics, takes part in competitions and strives to become to best.

    From what i can tell, in Chivalry these terms are used differently by most people. They are not used to describe interest or time investment, rather how far a player is willing to go to beat their opponent.
    Chivalry is, by nature, competitive. You fight other players to beat them. What really makes the difference is what kind of experience each player is looking for while doing so.

    Players described as “competitive” in Chivalry make use of whatever mechanics the game offers, regardless of how fun, fair, or intended they actually are. The more effective the mechanic is at dominating the opponent, the better.

    However, players referred to as “casuals” here do not neccessarily know these mechanics less or have less game time logged. They are just looking for a different experience. A more realistic, authentic, and most of all, fun fighting experience. Most of them simply refuse to use certain mechanics that they do not find realistic or fair enough. Not because they do not know them, but because they find that using these mechanics make the game less fun for both themselves and the opponent.

    So please stop making this distinction between players. Not only are you using the terms wrongly, but you are getting in the way of improving the game together.

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer#Casual_gamer
    [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer#Hardcore_gamer



  • I don’t think you can put the competitive and the hardcore gamer in the same boat. I consider myself a hardcore Chivalry player, I play almost every day, am invested in the community, and enjoy knowing more about the deeper mechanics and tactics of the combat system. But I don’t actually play competitively, am in a clan, or strive to be the best player in every match. I just wanna have fun, that’s the most important thing for me.



  • Honestly I think the only clear-cut distinction between casual and competitive would be one’s ability to find enjoyment in the game regardless of change in mechanics. Casuals will find a way to have fun no matter what while competitive players will lose enjoyment if certain criteria isn’t met that they deem important.



  • Casual players care about deep mechanics just like competitive players do. Casual players just want that depth to be accessible to them without having to spend 300 hours playing the game first.



  • @RushSecond:

    Casual players care about deep mechanics just like competitive players do. Casual players just want that depth to be accessible to them without having to spend 300 hours playing the game first.

    Wise man hath spoken.



  • @RushSecond:

    Casual players care about deep mechanics just like competitive players do. Casual players just want that depth to be accessible to them without having to spend 300 hours playing the game first.

    That’s a very reasonable explanation.



  • @RushSecond:

    Casual players care about deep mechanics just like competitive players do. Casual players just want that depth to be accessible to them without having to spend 300 hours playing the game first.

    It didn’t take 300 hours for anyone to learn how to combo feint to parry. We spent 1000+ hours discovering all the stuff that you can learn to do in 5 minutes.

    Just saying.

    On topic: I think rather than time spent, it’s more about how much effort you’re willing to put in to become better. I’ve seen 400 hours play just as well as 1000+ in the past many many times, so if you’re willing to put forth the amount of effort, you can pick up the advanced mechanics quite quickly.



  • @SOC:

    We spent 1000+ hours discovering all the stuff that you can learn to do in 5 minutes.

    Good point.

    Not sure why the definitions matter, lots of grey areas of which I fit into one.

    My basic definition would be:

    Casuals play for fun.

    Competitive players play to win.



  • Winning can be fun.



  • @Sidewinder:

    Winning can be fun.

    And hence I have nothing against clannies, I like their dedication to a good game.



  • @SOC:

    @RushSecond:

    Casual players care about deep mechanics just like competitive players do. Casual players just want that depth to be accessible to them without having to spend 300 hours playing the game first.

    It didn’t take 300 hours for anyone to learn how to combo feint to parry. We spent 1000+ hours discovering all the stuff that you can learn to do in 5 minutes.

    Just saying.

    Prepatch with CFTP, facehugging, fast alt swings, short stun times, and no sprint lockout, there was all this extra stuff new players to learn to deal with on top of needing the necessary reactions when fighting. Getting rid of the fluff helps.



  • Games that require new players to spend hours watching youtube video’s to learn to play, before they can start to have fun, often do not survive very long.

    Competitive players are the heart of a game, but new/casual players are the life blood. A game made up of many players who come and go, but find it easy to resume and pick up the game, will always have an audience. A game made up of a core few players, may last a long time, but its a slippery slope, as the developer has to please this small group, and one screw up can easily cost them their playerbase.

    In bygone days a developer could make mistakes and the community would accept and stick with it. But we live in a time where customers increasingly expect a lot, and are much more quickly angered. Its easy to find something else to pick up if you feel you’re not being treated right, because the games market is rather saturated compared to years past. So playerbases are not nearly as predictable or as accepting.



  • ^^ I don’t agree with that, there’s a difference between learning to play… and learning to play WELL. Anyone can go into counterstrike and play the game, you’ll know how to move around if you’ve played any FPS or computer game, and you move your mouse and click to shoot. Learning to play WELL at that game takes time and practice.

    Take any RPG game, you can play the game, run around pick up items and have a good time. Go into PvP, and you’ll have to do a shit ton of research on items and class builds and what attack chains work the best and how to use your build effectively… what skills to upgrade or abilities to get or what have you.

    Take a strategy game like starcraft… anyone can jump into a game and play and have fun building a huge army and then running in and either destroying their enemy or gettting destroyed. In order to play WELL you need to learn what units do well against others, learn the maps, learn hotkeys and get VERY fast with them, etc, etc.

    My point is… chivalry doesn’t take watching hundreds of youtube videos to learn how to play. Anyone can hop in and swing a sword around or shoot some arrows at people and generally have a good time doing so, not everyone else in the game is great. But in order to do WELL, yeah you’ll need to learn some more things about the game. WHY IS IT SO DIFFERENT? i will never get this argument. NEVER.

    This game is only different because it feels so personal (which is what the devs were going for originally) you feel mighty and the awesomeness of striking down your opponent and they said in a video that if you accomplished victory you know you did so with skill and such. And if you are defeated, you feel the agony of defeat and it has a VERY personal touch. This is why people that are competitive or veterans or seroious players want to maintain that SKILL portion of it, so that they can always improve and get better and deal with situtations differently. They don’t want some watered down version of a game they love because some people don’t want to learn to play it WELL…

    THATS the difference.



  • Prepatch i would have agreed with ravendice, but now the game is much better then it was in terms of fewer WTF moments.
    I see far fewer new players saying WTF in TO or duels.

    Casuals are the life blood of the game and i think they are looked after well enough now



  • the best thing that’s coming that will keep the new players won’t necessarily be all gameplay, people will love customization and i’ve already seen some of the custom maps people have made and they look awesome. Things like this will keep the new players i think… throw competitive a frickin bone here! lol



  • So please stop making this distinction between players. Not only are you using the terms wrongly, but you are getting in the way of improving the game together.

    But these two groups of players have different approach, their interests obviously collide and splitting the community (via pro-mod) is very good for both as each will be able to play their own way without getting into the way of people who aren’t sharing their vision.

    The most important is how game mechanic looks, how it’s presented - being able to hit through shield (from defender’s point of view, especially a newcomer), being able to do instant (crouch) lookdowns, etc. It all made combat against more experienced players annyoing. This not only looked like cheating, but also made combat look silly. The developers are already aware of this and that’s a good thing for the future.



  • Casual players can be “hardcore players” as well. Competitive players play in competitions (aka leagues, scrims etc), casual players don’t, that’s all. I have no clue why someone would need to write a wall of text about this.



  • Nice point, Failstorm. You’re being clashed hard but you’re true. For example, I refuse to drag my attacks or use lookdown overhea. But some Pro use those slutty moves without shame ! =)



  • @Holy.Death:

    The most important is how game mechanic looks, how it’s presented - being able to hit through shield (from defender’s point of view, especially a newcomer), being able to do instant (crouch) lookdowns, etc. It all made combat against more experienced players annyoing. This not only looked like cheating, but also made combat look silly. The developers are already aware of this and that’s a good thing for the future.

    Thank you Holy for summing this thought up nicely. I came in to post something similar.



  • @RushSecond:

    Prepatch with CFTP, facehugging, fast alt swings, short stun times, and no sprint lockout, there was all this extra stuff new players to learn to deal with on top of needing the necessary reactions when fighting. Getting rid of the fluff helps.

    CFTP made the game better, you can still facehug np, alt swings were a bad idea in general, we haven’t had short stun times since infinite parries and no kick shield daze, no sprint lockout was a great thing especially when they didn’t ruin chase mechanic.

    Why are we balancing the game around noobs who will only play 3 hours once a week and then go back to Skyrim and never touch Chivalry ever again until the next content update instead of the 1000+ hour players who actually keep the game alive? herpaderp lets turn longsword and SoW into messer, make all vanguards use only claymore or spears and buff MaAs and archers because they’re harder to play even if they’re extremely OP in skilled players’ hands. Bye, you can’t chase me as a knight when I’m playing MaA anymore lololumad? Seriously, this game just went downhill massively with the last patch.

    @RavenDice:

    Games that require new players to spend hours watching youtube video’s to learn to play, before they can start to have fun, often do not survive very long.

    New players never had to spend hours watching youtube videos to learn to play, my self and many others started with the in game tutorial, got owned going 3-35 our first few matches, and loved every second of it. We all started to learn more and more over time, with or without watching videos, and that learning experience was one of the most fun times any of us has ever had in a multiplayer game. The vast majority of new players said they loved this game because it was simple to pick up but very deep and hard to master. It was the very reason this game has survived so long.


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