Parry Type [POLL]



  • Im writing this as a maa-player. In duel mode panic parry is not that big of a deal for me, it just stretches out the duel longer. But it kinda ruins the feeling a bit, since it encourages wild swinging.

    However, in TO it’s kind of a big problem. Maa is bad in TO right now ( sometimes I feel like a knight with less health ). One of the strongest attacks maa had pre-patch was being able to get in fast after a swing and hit the enemys. With the removal of attacking while dodging, the bigger delay between dodges, and panic parry in place, this is no longer possible. People that are unaware of panic parry still fall for the “dodge back - sprint forward attack” trick, but that only works on new players. The cftp-removal made it even worse, since you no longer can cancel your combo, which means you can’t dodge out of the danger-zone in time.

    With cftp back in and panic parry removed, I think maa would get a little buff in TO, one he really needs.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @clayton-bigsby:

    skilled vs. skilled players simply had more options before.

    Sprint lockout and increased flinch times hinders options far more than CFtP removal ever did.

    I’ve already argued how the removal of CFtP actually increased the number of viable options as far as mindgames and team combat tactics go.

    People cry over their CFtP more than the sprint lockout and flinch times for whatever reason.

    i’ve addressed and talked about flinch times and all the other lockouts added to the game too, but this particular thread is about panic parry/parry types so i’m not bringing it in here too. I’ve repeated my opinions like 50 times over. I even said in my post up there somewhere that cftp is only ONE of the MANY changes that affected control over gameplay. Many others have made excellent points about this stuff in other threads and only partial rebuttal discussion happens. People read along and find one point that they can discuss, and forget about the other 20 that the people talk about.



  • @Stuffy:

    Im writing this as a maa-player. In duel mode panic parry is not that big of a deal for me, it just stretches out the duel longer. But it kinda ruins the feeling a bit, since it encourages wild swinging.

    However, in TO it’s kind of a big problem. Maa is bad in TO right now ( sometimes I feel like a knight with less health ). One of the strongest attacks maa had pre-patch was being able to get in fast after a swing and hit the enemys. With the removal of attacking while dodging, the bigger delay between dodges, and panic parry in place, this is no longer possible. People that are unaware of panic parry still fall for the “dodge back - sprint forward attack” trick, but that only works on new players. The cftp-removal made it even worse, since you no longer can cancel your combo, which means you can’t dodge out of the danger-zone in time.

    With cftp back in and panic parry removed, I think maa would get a little buff in TO, one he really needs.

    maa is still the best duel class by far… and it’s even excellent in TO as well, i tear it up in TO with maa, group fights, 1v1’s… i can do it all. The way to play Maa in TO now is mostly back attack and using speed to get around, just like before. But in group fights, it’s so easy to target switch around and combo between people, and dodge out whenever you get in a jam. It still rapes in TO. Maa and vanguard are the god classes. Oh wait archers too. 3 classes are VERY powerful right now. The only one that ACTUALLY got nerfed is the knight for realz. Every other class got buffed, vanguards buffed, archers buffed… maa (indirectly) buffed.

    Even if you think the maa got nerfed on paper, in the game it’s actually just as powerful if not moreso now. The knight is the only one that got nerfed but no real buffs, other than the maul, but that’s a weapon buff not a class buff. So knights got screwed and everything else got nice buffs. Why do you think so many knights switched over to van or maa? myself included… sure i still play knight and it’s still a viable class but it’s the only class that truly got nothing but nerfed based on the other changes made to the game as well.



  • for the record, i did not vote, 'cause i have not played pre-patch, and i’m not too sure how i feel about Parry-in-Recovery, but if pressing the lmb means you can then choose to omit Recovery into both attack and parry, while not comboing means going into Recovery and being able to do neither, the latter would only ever be a stamina saving device, but comboing doesn’t seem to cost nearly enough stamina for this to be balanced.

    i like the idea of commit to attack or commit to parry better.

    also i would ask, how exactly is CFtP a better mechanic than Parry in Recovery, other than as free-kills on people that haven’t figured out that a combo attack makes you LESS vulnerable?
    (yes, “free kills” is an overstatements. very good)

    yes, it costs an extra mouse-click. how does that make it better, especially since it makes no sense that an extra attack leads to a quicker defence?

    again i haven’t voted, but i’m leaning towards either both or neither.

    (on the balance issue, i’ve found that the biggest balance problem is Shields are just weak. i suspect if Shields become viable again, all four of the classes will as a result become more balanced…though i’m not sure about Knights)



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    Why do you think so many knights switched over to van or maa?

    Because most of them got carried by the innate overpowered-ness of Longsword and SoW, and they were unwilling to practice their aim and get 1 headshot, or switch to a different knight weapon that might be easier to use but have clear weaknesses.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Why do you think so many knights switched over to van or maa?

    Because most of them got carried by the innate overpowered-ness of Longsword and SoW, and they were unwilling to practice their aim and get 1 headshot, or switch to a different knight weapon that might be easier to use but have clear weaknesses.

    and maa didn’t get carried by dodge attacks, dodging in general, and alternate swings? and the combination of dodge + alternate swings? hmm….

    longsword and sow were never overpowered, that’s just silly. Plz tell me more about how they were overpowered, i’d love to hear that one.



  • Still vote for removing both panic parry and CFTP. Balance MaA where needed. Both mechanics are harmful to the the flow of the game in my opinion (and they honestly do the same thing, especially if you have a script). At least test with both removed and see how powerful MaA is without being able to dodge in during windup and without front chase. I would honestly rather remove MaA from the game than to keep either of these mechanics. Also, for the love of god TB, an overhead maul to an MaA’s chest should one shot.



  • Where is the option ‘Would be down for A or D.’ ???

    Thats my vote cause I hate CFtP!



  • yet the panic parry is better somehow, it does the same thing, it’s easier… it accomplishes the same thing so with that mentality you should dislike recovery parry too/combo parry too.

    ah fuck this argument, i’m done arguing about it… not accomplishing anything anyhow. People might realize it down the road i guess when everyone ranks up to 30’s, 40’s etc… then the game will show it’s colors to the rest of everyone i suppose.



  • @Event:

    I would like to see CFTP without the ability to riposte. At least then you wouldn’t have random noobs spamming panic parries

    The problem with CFtP isnt the riposte. It isnt even the parry during recovery.
    Its that you can attack while staying safe and it makes you want to combo all the time.

    The reason I dont have an opinion on panicparry is that Im unsure if a maul knight can win against a back dodging MAA without it. (I dont use weapons that slow)

    But arguing for CFtP and against panicparry is like saying only a small part of the comunity should have the right to parry in recovery. Its just bullshit.

    EVERYONE who is for CFtP and complaining about panicparry just wants a secret trick to bash noobs imo. Both bypass recovery, the only difference is that CFtP is hidden from causal players.



  • @Towe:

    @Event:

    I would like to see CFTP without the ability to riposte. At least then you wouldn’t have random noobs spamming panic parries

    The problem with CFtP isnt the riposte. It isnt even the parry during recovery.
    Its that you can attack while staying safe and it makes you want to combo all the time.

    The reason I dont have an opinion on panicparry is that Im unsure if a maul knight can win against a back dodging MAA without it. (I dont use weapons that slow)

    But arguing for CFtP and against panicparry is like saying only a small part of the comunity should have the right to parry in recovery. Its just bullshit.

    EVERYONE who is for CFtP and complaining about panicparry just wants a secret trick to bash noobs imo. Both bypass recovery, the only difference is that CFtP is hidden from causal players.

    Let me first say that I don’t particularly care that CFTP is gone. Yeah, I think it removes options from players and overall, lowers the skill ceiling. However, I don’t really mind adapting and moving on.

    I take issue with your last statement. CFTP is by no means hidden from casual players. It was an extremely, extremely intuitive combination of mechanics. I learned it myself about rank 20 or so once I was comfortable with all of the mechanics. The players who did learn it are those who took the time to either observe it used by others or just those who realized how game mechanics could be used in conjunction. It is not as though anyone was actively keeping it a secret.



  • @Event:

    I would like to see CFTP without the ability to riposte. At least then you wouldn’t have random noobs spamming panic parries

    That’s actually a fantastic idea.



  • @Towe:

    The reason I dont have an opinion on panicparry is that Im unsure if a maul knight can win against a back dodging MAA without it. (I dont use weapons that slow)

    But arguing for CFtP and against panicparry is like saying only a small part of the comunity should have the right to parry in recovery. Its just bullshit.

    EVERYONE who is for CFtP and complaining about panicparry just wants a secret trick to bash noobs imo. Both bypass recovery, the only difference is that CFtP is hidden from causal players.

    maul knight usually doesn’t win against maa, maa is much faster and can stay away from the maul the whole time. The ‘panic parry’ was accomplished by combo feint to parry. And without the recovery parry or the panic parry, no you probably should not win against a dodging maa.

    Why does that mean only a small part of the community can parry in recovery? anyone can do it, just have to learn. Feinting an attack to a parry takes time to learn. Parrying period took time to learn. Feinting took time to learn. So somehow that 3 button combination is somehow unlearnable and unavailable to others?

    And bypassing recovery is not the only difference. Combo feint to parry took extra timing and extra moves to perform. Not only that but other things i’ve mentioned like ducking attacks and countering, hitting someone for swinging out of range and things like that were accomplished with good timing, now you can combo into a parry, so theres no time in between a missed swing. Even with cftp, there was a very short in between sequence to where you could punish someone for a missed swing, typically cftp didn’t save you from a missed swing, it saved you from a swing out of range where you still had to use footwork to back your player up when you realize you are out of range… there are more differences than just that they both parry in recovery.

    cftp was not difficult to learn how to do… lets see… can you press the right mouse button twice? you’re halfway there! can you press or scroll your wheel twice? You’re 100% there now! ok lets put them together… lmb lmb rmb rmb. Or if you’re like me… lmb lmb q rmb… and it’s not like you have to do all of that instantly either. All you had to do was know when your second swing would come to do the feint and parry… idk why it waas so hard for people and that people think it’s some big secret and impossible to pull off maneuver. If you can learn to feint… like feint an attack and then attack… then you can learn to feint to parry. Then once you MASTER the art of feinting and then parrying instead of feinting and attacking… you just do this after a combo… so your combo gets feinted… not a hard concept but to some people apparently it was. I’ll never understand why you can feint your first attack and parry, but can’t feint your second attack and parry, yet you can feint your second attack and attack again.

    How hard now is it to do an attack and then press rmb. 1, 2. 1,2. 1,2. 1 strike, one parry, one strike, one parry. And it’s not even like you have to time anything difficult. you have some weapon ok i’m going to swing now… ok i’m going to block now… boom you’re a pro



  • Why should a maul balanced towards fighting an MaA? Yes MaA should just explode into a million pieces if they get hit by one, but I don’t think weapons are supposed to be balanced for one on one fighting. The maul right now is awesome, but it still sucks at one on one against a MaA even with panic parry. If you are playing one on one against a good MaA, switch to your secondary. Also, I find that both the panic parry and CFTP make it harder for me to use the maul when everyone can just parry my slow weapon no matter how well I time their misses.



  • game is not balanced for 1v1, the game didn’t have duel mode before so it was never a part of the original game.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    game is not balanced for 1v1, the game didn’t have duel mode before so it was never a part of the original game.

    Which is what I was trying to say. It isn’t balanced that way and it shouldn’t be. All weapons and classes should have their strengths and weaknesses.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    longsword and sow were never overpowered, that’s just silly. Plz tell me more about how they were overpowered, i’d love to hear that one.

    It made sword vanguards redundant. Why would you ever bring sword vanguards when you have knights. Not to mention there were some NASTY synergies with SoW and other weapons, especially pole-axe + SoW.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @clayton-bigsby:

    longsword and sow were never overpowered, that’s just silly. Plz tell me more about how they were overpowered, i’d love to hear that one.

    It made sword vanguards redundant. Why would you ever bring sword vanguards when you have knights. Not to mention there were some NASTY synergies with SoW and other weapons, especially pole-axe + SoW.

    So because the Sword of War’s speed made it a good compliment to the Poleaxe’s damage, it AND the longsword were overpowered? This is why nobody listens to you Nova.

    By that logic we could buff the SoW back to its old ways and nerf the poleaxe to achieve the same results.



  • @SOC:

    @Event:

    I would like to see CFTP without the ability to riposte. At least then you wouldn’t have random noobs spamming panic parries

    That’s actually a fantastic idea.

    ^

    Probably a much better consolidation between new players and veterans, at worst.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @clayton-bigsby:

    longsword and sow were never overpowered, that’s just silly. Plz tell me more about how they were overpowered, i’d love to hear that one.

    It made sword vanguards redundant. Why would you ever bring sword vanguards when you have knights. Not to mention there were some NASTY synergies with SoW and other weapons, especially pole-axe + SoW.

    Did you watch the promod 6v6 tournament? There are people out there that can bring some serious hurt with vanguard swords. It wasn’t the game’s fault that a lot of people preferred knight. This kind of “evidence-based” reasoning just doesn’t work when the competitive scene is very small and there aren’t a great deal of really good players competing.


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