AOCTO-Hillside_P Two Pyres instead of one



  • First post, so be kind! :)

    So what I noticed when I played Team Objective Hillside is that Agathians have a hard time completing the first objective (burning the pyre) unless they all rushed in and succeed during the first couple of spawns. However if they fail, the number of Masons guarding the pyre will build up whilst the gradual trickle of Agathians who’ve journeyed all the way from the shore are quickly surrounded by waiting Masons and slaughtered - I think that is clearly unbalanced.

    What I propose is to have TWO pyres instead of one, and either can be lit in order to complete the objective - similar to having two bombsites in Counter-Strike. I think that as long as the location for the new pyre is not too far from the original pyre, it would allow the Agathians a chance to win without giving them too much of an edge.

    I would like to hear your opinions!



  • The 1st stage is probably the hardest on the map for the Agathians and imo is made up for by the final stage, which seems to almost always go the way of the Blue and Gold.

    Overall, I myself find it actually harder to defend than attack (especially the last 2 stages). I do think your suggestion is a good one though as long as they made the last stage easier to defend.



  • Have you no heard of agatha steamrolls on that map.

    Down here people forget about the pyre.

    If I’m on agatha and we do have troubles with the pure I go and cut off their reinforcements. I also ask for some people to do the same and use the follow me voice command. You jus go up near the mason spawn in front of the cave entrance bit. The more people you have there the longer you can hold them off. Then your team can get up tree and light the pure. The difference even 10 seconds can make. If if you die somewhat less reinforcements come and those that do are often weaker. Some even walk rather than sprint to regain health.



  • Yeah, unfortunately it’s pretty hard to defend on that map at the moment.

    Having 2 pyres to extinguish would be a nightmare.



  • I guess I am not just talking about improving balance here, but also trying to address the fact that imo it currently feels like wasted effort as Agathians to charge into the pyre and potentially face an entire team of Masons, especially after having ran all the way from the beach - it’s just does not feel particularly fun.

    To make the last two objectives harder for the Agathians to attack, you can always reduce the Time Bonus they get after they complete the first and second objectives (thus shortening the overall map duration). For the final objective you can also consider giving more health to the Mason ships, or just add more ships to shoot down.

    Admittedly there would be a lot of stuff to tweak, and it would be bad if balance somehow got worse. So perhaps it’s not even worth the effort! Oh well :)



  • For a change, I played defender on that map, as an archer, and I racked up 2-25 K/D or something, with one metric f* ton of assists. And I wasn’t even ranking on the top of my team.

    My team was fairly mobile and I was very impressed with random blokes from a pub to act that way- We moved en-masse, never really staying in one spot, and just sort of steamrolled across the map. I was terribly surprised by the mentality I came to possess during this. We never even worried about anyone breaking through; we just found a little patch of blue and when we got through it wasn’t there any more. I rolled with the shortbow and the warbow, no crosshair (this is so much more fun after you get used to it). It was the most beautiful display of unspoken coordination that I’ve ever seen. We had very few freelance “hero” types, most everyone got in on the group, and everyone knew their place. I’m wondering why I haven’t seen that before in pubs. Or, actually, why I saw that at all in a pub. It was like watching a finely-tuned clock.

    That was weird. Back on topic.

    The main problem with the attackers is that it doesn’t take an incredibly coordinated team to defend that Bottleneck from Hell, especially since it’s right next to the Mason spawn. The attackers usually stand no chance against an equally skilled team, in my experience, especially on that map. You’ve got a literal uphill battle, with anyone you kill having time to respawn before you get up to the pyre, and an incredibly long way up the mountain. So you’re essentially fighting the team twice, with little to no reinforcements. It’s a really hard battle. Your best bet is often a treacherous little stinker running past like he’s carrying the Olympic Torch. And even then, you have to really take hold of that pyre and hold it.

    Rest of the map is a walk in the park, assuming you don’t take down the trebuchets in the worst order possible. For pity’s sake, take 3 first. And the ballistae section is usually an afterthought. No one seems to know that you can just destroy the damn things.



  • TO hillside is now more balanced around competitive play.

    Throw in a pub server though and the loss of Old Treb 3 and you get yourself an Agathian steamroll.



  • @lemonater47:

    Have you no heard of agatha steamrolls on that map.

    Down here people forget about the pyre.

    If I’m on agatha and we do have troubles with the pure I go and cut off their reinforcements. I also ask for some people to do the same and use the follow me voice command. You jus go up near the mason spawn in front of the cave entrance bit. The more people you have there the longer you can hold them off. Then your team can get up tree and light the pure. The difference even 10 seconds can make. If if you die somewhat less reinforcements come and those that do are often weaker. Some even walk rather than sprint to regain health.

    Yeah I do that too, in fact running through that cave is often a better way to get to the pyre anyway.



  • @Dr:

    Yeah I do that too, in fact running through that cave is often a better way to get to the pyre anyway.

    I would have thought that was the only sane way to do it. ;) I’m not fighting my way through a roadblock of Mason’s while Archers from both teams plink away at me when I can sneaky sneaky my way through the side and maybe have to fight off 1 or 2 people.

    I’m normally always on the Attacking team because I find it more fun/rewarding and I cannot for the life of me comprehend why people don’t just sit on top of the bonfire near the side cave entrance. Having one or two people there can spot and stop any attempt of flanking the pyre that way, as well as it being close to Mason spawn.



  • @DokB:

    @Dr:

    Yeah I do that too, in fact running through that cave is often a better way to get to the pyre anyway.

    I would have thought that was the only sane way to do it. ;) I’m not fighting my way through a roadblock of Mason’s while Archers from both teams plink away at me when I can sneaky sneaky my way through the side and maybe have to fight off 1 or 2 people.

    I’m normally always on the Attacking team because I find it more fun/rewarding and I cannot for the life of me comprehend why people don’t just sit on top of the bonfire near the side cave entrance. Having one or two people there can spot and stop any attempt of flanking the pyre that way, as well as it being close to Mason spawn.

    Shhhhhhhhh!



  • @lemonater47:

    Have you no heard of agatha steamrolls on that map.

    Down here people forget about the pyre.

    If I’m on agatha and we do have troubles with the pure I go and cut off their reinforcements. I also ask for some people to do the same and use the follow me voice command. You jus go up near the mason spawn in front of the cave entrance bit. The more people you have there the longer you can hold them off. Then your team can get up tree and light the pure. The difference even 10 seconds can make. If if you die somewhat less reinforcements come and those that do are often weaker. Some even walk rather than sprint to regain health.

    this, agatha cannot be stopped hardly at all on this map. The only way now is to totally stack mason and have nothing but noobs on agatha. Otherwise agatha is going to run through this map. I think just yesterday or the day before our team completed this map in about…. i’d say 7-8 minutes total for all 3 objectives. I want to say it was a record. I’m actually giving it 7-8 minutes because i don’t even think it lasted that long.



  • I’m still advocating that removing old treb 3 was a bad idea.

    Why couldn’t they keep that treb but keep that new wall that blocks archers from seeing into the objective as well as funnelling defenders fresh from spawn into the choke point?

    Now that area is just completely void of activity save for a few flanking MaA who want to go around to rear end archers who sit at the back stairs.



  • I see the general consensus is that the map is indeed imbalanced, but most would actually prefer it if the map favoured the Masons instead. Other than tweaks to the time limit or the number of trebuchets/ships (or their health), are there any specific modifications to the map that would help the Masons’ defence?

    I don’t know the map well enough to judge your suggestion DokB, but it sounds like what you said might be a good idea.



  • @DokB:

    I’m still advocating that removing old treb 3 was a bad idea.

    Why couldn’t they keep that treb but keep that new wall that blocks archers from seeing into the objective as well as funnelling defenders fresh from spawn into the choke point?

    Now that area is just completely void of activity save for a few flanking MaA who want to go around to rear end archers who sit at the back stairs.

    idk… the issue was that masons could get there faster, and then they could funnel them all to the stairs which was very easy to defend having the high ground, they could drop down, or come in from the two entrances down the stairs near mason spawn area… once all the other trebs were gone, you just had a TON of people camping out and it was almost impossible to get in there with a half decent team. you’d also not only have people camping there, you’d have people pushing forward, archers firing from both stairs, and even people up top near one shooting down and flanking around there… it was just way too easy to defend. I think maybe firepots could help the situation now a bit by burning them out of there a bit but i don’t know. All that stuff combined made for quite a powerful defense.

    The first portion of the map attacking the pyres is bad because all agatha needs is one good push to basically hold it out, and the masons can’t get back there in time if they die. So think about it, masons can make like 30 successful defenses, but if agatha gets the upper hand in kills just 1 time… that objective is over, everyone respawns and they have to run down and back up the hill to defend, and not only up, but around the wall and get up to the fire to put it out… so agatha only needs one successful push, whereas masons need to defend the whole time and hold off like… idk 50 pushes? it’s like a 15 minute objective.

    Now for the last ballista part, this one is so complicated because of all the ways you can get to the ballistas, you can go up the main stairs, go down and around to the right. you can push towards their spawn and either A.) go up the stairs and go behind them at spawn or CAMP them at spawn, you can go straight forward leading you around and down to the lower ballistas, and you can take a right turn in the tunnel and go down and access the lower ballistas that way as well. Most of the team needs to focus on the bullk going up the main stairs, flank runs can take care of any archers watching lower… and it’s pretty much just over.

    All 3 of the objectives seem in favor of agatha at this point on that map. The only way mason ever wins anymore is because they have to be stacked pretty well, agatha has to be all new players and mason has to have some experience. The best way is probably to hold the first objective, and to do so it’s best to not push too far forward and keep running cave side if you die and then push down always checking on the fire… that or if agatha is bad i guess you can spawn camp them for 15 minutes, but even then some maa or something always seems to sneak around.

    Not sure what could be done, maybe shorten the mason run back to the fire a bit or add another avenue. Idk how balanced it would be, may turn the favor back to mason. For the trebs portion… they have to somehow now make 3 more worth defending because currently… there’s not much reason to defend it since it takes so long for masons to get back there once dying it’s the same thing for the 1st objective, agatha only needs 1 good push to take it out, and they wont be able to get back in time if a 2nd defense is needed. Plus, 3 gets taken out in the beginning because they primarily need to focus on the bread and butter, 1 and 2… if those go down it’s very easy. Usually 1 will go down first, then the whole team pushes 2… but masons have a hard time defending because they usually can’t watch all the flank routes as well as attempt to fight the folks running right at two. You have a few guys run toward 1 and drop down behind them on the right, and a few guys running toward treb 3 to flank on the left, and they’re surrounded, if they try to respawn, maa’s just resupply at the ammo and firepot the stairs and spawn of mason, and there ya go.

    For the ballista (3rd section)… no idea heere… maybe take away the whole right side path entirely so that if you wanted to use the lower ballista you would have to push toward spawn and go around or go down those stairs?


Log in to reply