[POLL] Remove 3rd person from TB/Official servers.



  • I don’t see what the problem is here….it’s a game, I think ya’ll are over reacting or something. let people have fun, that’s a good reason to play a game, because it’s fun. Taking away available options just makes the game strict, and less fun. I mean, do you have any idea how hard it is to parry in third person? cuz I don’t think ya do. I play in third, try to parry certain blows, in third and somehow end up dead because my “aim” while trying to parry in third was way off. First and third person have strengths and weaknesses, now stop crying.

    Third person

    Strengths

    • Awareness

    • Stronger offensive fighting

    • A decent view for shield use (Because a shield blocks most of your screen in first person)

    • view how hurt your character is (Besides HP bar)

    Weaknesses

    • Harder to parry

    • Aiming is not centered (Applies to bows, throwing spears, throwing knives, throwing axes, ETC) (Is a little off to the left)

    • No precise melee attacks (Will not always get hit, Especially not from overhead strikes, or stabs)

    • Not a very good view for smaller weapons like a knife, or shortsword.

    First person

    Strengths

    • Easier to parry attacks

    • Precision aiming (Applies to bows, throwing spears, throwing knives, throwing axes, ETC) (Aiming is centered)

    • Precision melee attacks (Able to see where your actually slicing and dicing, hacking and slashing, chopping and mincing, heh heh) ;)

    • Better view for smaller weapons (Can be good for bigger weapons, just depends on how experienced a player is using giant weapons, you KNOW how large it is, you KNOW how to time your attacks because of how slow they can be)

    • Better concentration on the enemy in front of the player (can pay well enough attention to his attacks, either it be a vertical or horizontal swings, and stabs)

    Weaknesses

    • Less awareness

    • less effective with shield (Because it blocks alot of your screen)

    • can be harder to move around sometimes

    If anyone wants to add to this if I missed anything, be my guest.

    some of these strengths and weaknesses, may or may not apply to all players, it depends on the level of experience one has had with one of the two views.

    if you play nothing but first person, I’m sure you’re a deadly killer of third person users, same applies to third person.



  • I think this game would be more fun and more fair if third person was removed. As a competitive player I will never play in third person which makes public play sometimes kinda annoying (people seeing you from behind, waiting behind corners etc). On the other hand this game was advertised as a first- and thirdperson game so it would be unfair for those who bought this game for thirdperson-play.



  • @NabsterHax:

    @scy22:

    @NabsterHax:

    Except the best players don’t use third person because IT’S ALREADY BANNED for competitive play and on many of the servers where you would find better players. It would be silly to play and practice in 3rd when it’s no good for a competition. Your reasoning that good players don’t play in 3rd because it doesn’t give an advantage is flawed.

    A red herring. You’re calling my logic flawed, yet you aren’t even talking about the premise at hand. If you’re going to try to discredit someone’s logic, try to address the premise.

    Please remember that the whole topic of discussion is why it shouldn’t be banned, not why players shouldn’t partake because it’s sometimes banned.

    The premise is incorrect. It should read “The best players always try to use the best tactics within the rules of common competition (i.e. no third person).”

    You are creating false parameters. The discussion is about why the perspective shouldn’t be banned in competitive play.

    You clearly don’t know the first thing about debate. If you are going to change someone’s premise on a whim, you could have just as easily changed it to, “the premise is now about why chocolate milkshakes are better than vanilla”. You are missing the point entirely, and upon trying to explain it to you several times, you simply can’t grasp it, and it’s clear you probably never will, so I’ll stop repeating myself. Before you hit the submit button, all you need to do is go back and read what was written prior, and you’ll notice you aren’t even addressing the topic. Either way, it’s clear you don’t have the capacity to contribute.



  • scy, you’ve hijacked the thread, insulted people’s knowledge of logic while simultaneously claiming your own arguments are sound when they aren’t even valid, now you go on to insult an individual based on their ability to debate.

    You’ve shown everyone here that you’re quick to insult [multiple]individuals. Lack knowledge of basic principles of deductive logic, have poor debating skills, and that people shouldn’t have any mod support for disabling third-person perspective on private servers.

    We get it, you don’t think third-person should be removed from official servers. Tally 1 to, for third-person guys.



  • @dpunk:

    scy, you’ve hijacked the thread, insulted people’s knowledge of logic while simultaneously claiming your own arguments are sound when they aren’t even valid, now you go on to insult an individual based on their ability to debate.

    You’ve shown everyone here that you’re quick to insult [multiple]individuals. Lack knowledge of basic principles of deductive logic, have poor debating skills, and that people shouldn’t have any mod support for disabling third-person perspective on private servers.

    We get it, you don’t think third-person should be removed from official servers. Tally 1 to, for third-person guys.

    With all that concrete reasoning how could you possibly be wrong. Aside from the fact you cant prove anything you just said, your empty, angry outburst is a typical response when you’ve exhausted all intelligent discourse. That would make your tally correct.



  • @MetalDevil19:

    I don’t see what the problem is here….it’s a game, I think ya’ll are over reacting or something. let people have fun, that’s a good reason to play a game, because it’s fun. Taking away available options just makes the game strict, and less fun. I mean, do you have any idea how hard it is to parry in third person? cuz I don’t think ya do. I play in third, try to parry certain blows, in third and somehow end up dead because my “aim” while trying to parry in third was way off. First and third person have strengths and weaknesses, now stop crying.

    Third person

    Strengths

    • Awareness

    • Stronger offensive fighting

    • A decent view for shield use (Because a shield blocks most of your screen in first person)

    • view how hurt your character is (Besides HP bar)

    Weaknesses

    • Harder to parry

    • Aiming is not centered (Applies to bows, throwing spears, throwing knives, throwing axes, ETC) (Is a little off to the left)

    • No precise melee attacks (Will not always get hit, Especially not from overhead strikes, or stabs)

    • Not a very good view for smaller weapons like a knife, or shortsword.

    First person

    Strengths

    • Easier to parry attacks

    • Precision aiming (Applies to bows, throwing spears, throwing knives, throwing axes, ETC) (Aiming is centered)

    • Precision melee attacks (Able to see where your actually slicing and dicing, hacking and slashing, chopping and mincing, heh heh) ;)

    • Better view for smaller weapons (Can be good for bigger weapons, just depends on how experienced a player is using giant weapons, you KNOW how large it is, you KNOW how to time your attacks because of how slow they can be)

    • Better concentration on the enemy in front of the player (can pay well enough attention to his attacks, either it be a vertical or horizontal swings, and stabs)

    Weaknesses

    • Less awareness

    • less effective with shield (Because it blocks alot of your screen)

    • can be harder to move around sometimes

    If anyone wants to add to this if I missed anything, be my guest.

    some of these strengths and weaknesses, may or may not apply to all players, it depends on the level of experience one has had with one of the two views.

    if you play nothing but first person, I’m sure you’re a deadly killer of third person users, same applies to third person.

    Well said, and well written. Especially this part, “Taking away available options just makes the game strict, and less fun.”



  • @scy22:

    You clearly don’t know the first thing about debate. If you are going to change someone’s premise on a whim, you could have just as easily changed it to, “the premise is now about why chocolate milkshakes are better than vanilla”. You are missing the point entirely, and upon trying to explain it to you several times, you simply can’t grasp it, and it’s clear you probably never will, so I’ll stop repeating myself. Before you hit the submit button, all you need to do is go back and read what was written prior, and you’ll notice you aren’t even addressing the topic. Either way, it’s clear you don’t have the capacity to contribute.

    Ok, correct me if I’m wrong. This is YOUR argument:

    If there is one universal truth in gaming. (and Ive been gaming for a long ass time). It is this:

    The best players as a whole will always use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. Barring cheats of course.

    So you can see the flaw in logic when you say, “Most skilled players use first”. One of two things makes the argument against using third person, or banning third person false.

    1. Most good players do not prefer first over third. Or
    2. Third person does not give a significant enough advantage to warrant using it, and certainly warrant ever banning it.

    You are concluding that because most good players play in first, third person does not give a significant enough advantage to warrant using/banning it.

    You reach this conclusion using these simple steps:
    1. The best players as a whole will always use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage.
    2. Most good players don’t use third.
    3. You then conclude that, based on these premises, third person does not give a significant advantage.

    Here is the problem: Premise 1 is not applicable to Chivalry players. The best players cannot use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage because in some cases these things are BANNED. You are relying on a premise that doesn’t hold in reality.

    Your argument is “correct” based on your given premises, but those premises do not reflect the current situation in Chivalry, and therefore your conclusion is useless.

    Why don’t you try grasping this? Maybe look up a book on applied logic or critical thinking.



  • Third person has its advantages, it’s great for facing hordes of enemies, or when using the maul. Or going vanguard with the zwei, I find ducking also easier in third person. It’s harder when facing good maa’s for instance or using a shield, because it literally blocks your view of the enemy and you can’t really see what they’re doing, at least not nearly as good as in first person. So third person has it’s advantages and disadvantages , same counts for first. And they’re ALL fine imo, I love playing in third and first. And saying that only noobs and unskilled players use third is just plain bullocks, I know very good players and they play third person. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. And so blocking third person is stupid, why should we dictate how people “should” play? Let them play however they want to, isn’t the game suppose to be about having fun? You’re taking fun away, that’s not good.



  • it’s a little weird though to impliment this vision impairing drawback from shields (a nice idea), but allow third person view to simply circumvent this penalty entirely.

    i say it’s meant to be played in fpv and that’s what i bought it for, and if i’ll ever feel disadvantaged in fpv i’ll complain about it.
    meanwhile i like the option to switch when backpedalling, because of the lack of an option to turn your head without turning your shield.



  • I’d love for one dedicated server to be locked to 1st person. I’d know we’re playing the same game for sure.



  • @NabsterHax:

    @scy22:

    You clearly don’t know the first thing about debate. If you are going to change someone’s premise on a whim, you could have just as easily changed it to, “the premise is now about why chocolate milkshakes are better than vanilla”. You are missing the point entirely, and upon trying to explain it to you several times, you simply can’t grasp it, and it’s clear you probably never will, so I’ll stop repeating myself. Before you hit the submit button, all you need to do is go back and read what was written prior, and you’ll notice you aren’t even addressing the topic. Either way, it’s clear you don’t have the capacity to contribute.

    Ok, correct me if I’m wrong. This is YOUR argument:

    If there is one universal truth in gaming. (and Ive been gaming for a long ass time). It is this:

    The best players as a whole will always use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. Barring cheats of course.

    So you can see the flaw in logic when you say, “Most skilled players use first”. One of two things makes the argument against using third person, or banning third person false.

    1. Most good players do not prefer first over third. Or
    2. Third person does not give a significant enough advantage to warrant using it, and certainly warrant ever banning it.

    You are concluding that because most good players play in first, third person does not give a significant enough advantage to warrant using/banning it.

    You reach this conclusion using these simple steps:
    1. The best players as a whole will always use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage.
    2. Most good players don’t use third.
    3. You then conclude that, based on these premises, third person does not give a significant advantage.

    Here is the problem: Premise 1 is not applicable to Chivalry players. The best players cannot use whatever they can to give them the biggest advantage because in some cases these things are BANNED. You are relying on a premise that doesn’t hold in reality.

    Your argument is “correct” based on your given premises, but those premises do not reflect the current situation in Chivalry, and therefore your conclusion is useless.

    Why don’t you try grasping this? Maybe look up a book on applied logic or critical thinking.

    It is applicable to chivalry players. Just because it currently exists this way, doesn’t mean it should. And that’s the point. You’re trying to disprove the validity of my premise with an argument that doesn’t even address it. It’s not about how the game is, it’s how the game should be. Go look up the definition of a red herring.



  • @Flamingcurtain:

    I’d love for one dedicated server to be locked to 1st person. I’d know we’re playing the same game for sure.

    Nearly all of the game.on.net servers in australia are locked to first person only. So there’s a lot to choose from here :D (i think there is 1 new game.on.net 3rd person enabled server now).

    It becomes obvious when comparing 1st person locked to 3rd person enabled servers that people are able to abuse 3rd person view and turning rate.



  • Food For Thought: Wouldn’t the acceptance of third person view ultimately be more competitive and challenging due to it’s strategical differences? It adds situations to the game that a 1st person locked server cannot.

    It is quite ironic how people complain that third person is making things too easy for “competitive” play so it becomes banned; when in actuality it adds more challenge and raises the skill ceiling for overall game play. So I ask myself, is the anti-third person community really looking for challenge, strategy, and competition or a primitive game play feeling without the situations they can’t handle?



  • If ALL 1st person turning rates = 3rd person rates this would go along way to bridging the gap. I would not really care if the turning rates were equal between 1st and 3rd person, but it very clearly isn’t the same and this can be observed pretty easily when you compare what happens on a 1st person only server vs a 3rd person enabled server.



  • @scy22:

    @NabsterHax:

    Ok, correct me if I’m wrong. This is YOUR argument:

    You’re trying to disprove the validity of my premise with an argument that doesn’t even address it.

    Premises don’t have the property of validness, arguments do.

    Scy, nobody here is going to argue with you if you make arguments that don’t follow correct logical syntax. But if your going to keep using such technical terms incorrectly, your arguments are going to keep getting ate up and spat back out.



  • I just want third person in the official servers so I can admire my customization.



  • @scy22:

    It is applicable to chivalry players. Just because it currently exists this way, doesn’t mean it should. And that’s the point. You’re trying to disprove the validity of my premise with an argument that doesn’t even address it. It’s not about how the game is, it’s how the game should be. Go look up the definition of a red herring.

    How is it applicable to current chivalry players?! To be clear: My argument does not prove or disprove 3rd person giving an advantage, it is simply showing that your argument is invalid.

    Please explain how my argument doesn’t display a clear incompatibility with your argument and the current state of Chivalry. You say “Competitive Chivalry players will use the best tactics to win,” but that’s not true to current Chivalry (or really, anything at all tbh - you just pulled that one out your arse).

    Are you claiming that if 3rd person were NOT banned that competitive players would still not use 3rd person (in which case your argument WOULD hold)? If so, what evidence do you have to back up this claim?

    Maybe if you think I’m still too stupid to understand your argument you should look into communicating your thoughts better to us plebeians. After all, the goal of debate is to convince, and it seems like I’m having more success at that than you at the moment.



  • @NabsterHax:

    @scy22:

    It is applicable to chivalry players. Just because it currently exists this way, doesn’t mean it should. And that’s the point. You’re trying to disprove the validity of my premise with an argument that doesn’t even address it. It’s not about how the game is, it’s how the game should be. Go look up the definition of a red herring.

    How is it applicable to current chivalry players?! To be clear: My argument does not prove or disprove 3rd person giving an advantage, it is simply showing that your argument is invalid.

    Please explain how my argument doesn’t display a clear incompatibility with your argument and the current state of Chivalry. You say “Competitive Chivalry players will use the best tactics to win,” but that’s not true to current Chivalry (or really, anything at all tbh - you just pulled that one out your arse).

    Are you claiming that if 3rd person were NOT banned that competitive players would still not use 3rd person (in which case your argument WOULD hold)? If so, what evidence do you have to back up this claim?

    Maybe if you think I’m still too stupid to understand your argument you should look into communicating your thoughts better to us plebeians. After all, the goal of debate is to convince, and it seems like I’m having more success at that than you at the moment.

    Tiresome. Sometimes people simply don’t have the capacity to understand. That’s okay. In the interest of avoiding redundancy, I’ll let it end.



  • @scy22:

    Tiresome. Sometimes people simply don’t have the capacity to understand. That’s okay. In the interest of avoiding redundancy, I’ll let it end.

    I’m basically a dumb little monkey sitting at a keyboard: “tap tap tap.”



  • I just got a new idea for the try hards! :o

    Since third person is banned due to it’s unrealistic advantages. I was thinking maybe voice communication and text chat should be removed too, or at least become proximity based. I mean, isn’t it unrealistic and advantageous to communicate with each other from across the map in a time period like this?


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