Javelins. I feel they are a bit too strong.



  • I have 65 hours on chivalry, not much compared to lot of people, but I think its long enough to let me judge fairly how… well… overpowered Javelins are. I believe the archer should stay range and not useful up close and personal. With a Javelin, you can use it close range and to great effect, essentially removing one of archers downsides. You can one hit MAA or other archers with it and simply walk backwards and throw when under attack. If you are a knight without a longsword, there’s not much you can do unless he walks into something. The damage is outrageous, one throw to the head at close range then a jab will instantly kill a knight. The tanks killed instantly by the “Weakest” class.

    Does anyone else have this opinion? I don’t mean to see like I am whining, its just something I have observed.

    Simply slowing them down, removing the close range attacks, or making archers stand still to throw them would help to fix it.



  • Javelins are pretty strong, but if you have ever seen a really good bowman, they are much more terrifying in my opinion. With a javelineer, take a shield and get in their face. Most of the time, they will be forced to use the buckler in melee, so practice striking around shields. Also it is helpful to remember that javelineers only have two attacks, so once you learn their patterns, they get easier to block since they come from largely predictable angles.

    Make a javelineer miss a throw at very close range, and they are dead essentially. Focus on your running patterns and dodging.



  • @SHH_:

    Javelins are pretty strong, but if you have ever seen a really good bowman, they are much more terrifying in my opinion. With a javelineer, take a shield and get in their face. Most of the time, they will be forced to use the buckler in melee, so practice striking around shields. Also it is helpful to remember that javelineers only have two attacks, so once you learn their patterns, they get easier to block since they come from largely predictable angles.

    Make a javelineer miss a throw at very close range, and they are dead essentially. Focus on your running patterns and dodging.

    Having seen both a good Javelin user and good bowmen, the Javelin user is quite a bit stronger. While a shield does help, its easy to get past any MAA shields with a Javelin and Vangaurd just does not have one. Smoke hardly helps, since its easy to get around and see through. Plus, they are more then likely able to hit you with a wild throw thanks to the smoke area being so narrow. Even with the buckler, you hit and they block, they have a free throw to the head, or a jab to the gut. Getting around a buckler is easy enough when its a badish player, but some people who have used one for awhile can learn to block those attacks.



  • Javelineers are - if played correctly - Vanguard killers. Not so much in melee as the Buckler really gimps them right now. But their damage output at mid distance is unrivaled (~100 DPS when thrown, the Maul got ~75 and the other weapons even less). The downside is their shortness on ammuntion and their relatively short reach and low projectile speed. In terms of burst a Javelin is the best weapon to get. But you only got 4-6 of them while a Bowman has 20+ and can shoot and hit from further away.

    Like every other Archer weapon they benefit from the weak shields as people decide to abandon them is exchange for better protection in melee (yes - shields make you more vulnerable in close combat…) but they are also weakened by it. The Buckler makes you run out of stamina faster than you can say “I will get stunned”.

    You cannot oneshot a undamaged Knight using a Javelin as even a headshot with the Heavy Javelin will leave him with some hitpoints. You are also much more predictable in close combat and still possess the poor Archer armor. Which means: Javelineers are very strong when the fight starts but burn out very quickly.



  • Hi,
    I thought I should come join this discussion, as I’m one of the annoyingly good spearmen running about the servers causing mayhem :D

    I feel qualified to give my opinion, especially having two years experience in QA testing. I play Chivalry on a daily basis and have done since release, racking up over 250 hours and playing throughout the beta as well. The game is pure genius, it just keeps me coming back for more, even after so long. Its given me endless hours of enjoyment and laughter!

    I have used all the kits, and personally think the game is more balanced now than it has ever been, and if there is a kit which is over powered, it most certainly is not the javelin.
    As previously stated, the javelin kit has two melee moves and a shield bash, the jab is the only one which causes a decent amount of damage, the other two are just to keep your opponent at a distance. We can’t even string a single combo together either, and run out of stamina quicker than a man at arms. I really don’t understand the people saying a spear should not be effective in melee, have you not heard of the Romans or the Spartans?

    There’s way too much hate for archers and spearmen in this game, all we get is abuse and people teaming up to destroy us 24/7. All I ever hear is “Kill the archers, kill the archers, the archers are cutting us down, kill them!”
    Sure we’re annoying but its all part of the game :D

    I urge all of you archer haters to try it yourselves, because its not easy, you don’t see archers top of the server very often.

    I think the Javelin kit is perfect as it is now, and if it were any less powerful, it wouldn’t be worth using at all. Travelling Merchant is entitled to his opinion, and that is mine :)

    Also, a tip for Travelling Merchant, utilize the duck more often, wait until your opponent throws his spear, then duck, not just normal duck, the full on “face in the dirt duck” that we all know and love, works for me most of the time as people aim for the head/chest area ;)

    Peace 8-)



  • @The_Blackfish:

    Hi,
    I thought I should come join this discussion, as I’m one of the annoyingly good spearmen running about the servers causing mayhem :D

    I feel qualified to give my opinion, especially having two years experience in QA testing. I play Chivalry on a daily basis and have done since release, racking up over 250 hours and playing throughout the beta as well. The game is pure genius, it just keeps me coming back for more, even after so long. Its given me endless hours of enjoyment and laughter!

    I have used all the kits, and personally think the game is more balanced now than it has ever been, and if there is a kit which is over powered, it most certainly is not the javelin.
    As previously stated, the javelin kit has two melee moves and a shield bash, the jab is the only one which causes a decent amount of damage, the other two are just to keep your opponent at a distance. We can’t even string a single combo together either, and run out of stamina quicker than a man at arms. I really don’t understand the people saying a spear should not be effective in melee, have you not heard of the Romans or the Spartans?

    There’s way too much hate for archers and spearmen in this game, all we get is abuse and people teaming up to destroy us 24/7. All I ever hear is “Kill the archers, kill the archers, the archers are cutting us down, kill them!”
    Sure we’re annoying but its all part of the game :D

    I urge all of you archer haters to try it yourselves, because its not easy, you don’t see archers top of the server very often.

    I think the Javelin kit is perfect as it is now, and if it were any less powerful, it wouldn’t be worth using at all. Travelling Merchant is entitled to his opinion, and that is mine :)

    Peace 8-)

    Having played him earlier, I can agree with the annoyingly good part!



  • Having played him earlier, I can agree with the annoyingly good part!

    Thanks for the compliment Travelling Merchant, and what may have made it worse for you earlier, Is I was specifically targeting you for about an hour because you were moaning, lmao, sorry :D

    I’m just expressing my opinion dude, someones gotta stick up for us filthy archers :D



  • I have 65 hours on chivalry, not much compared to lot of people, but I think its long enough to let me judge fairly

    No offense but it really isn’t.

    essentially removing one of archers downsides.

    Don’t let the fact that it is an archer make you think they have bad melee. Archer secondaries are borderline OP.

    The tanks killed instantly by the “Weakest” class.

    Archers are actually quite OP. Javs, though, fall short to xbows and bows in effectiveness due to range, amo count, and similar damage output. Again, don’t think that way about archers.

    Having seen both a good Javelin user and good bowmen, the Javelin user is quite a bit stronger

    What’s your definition of good? There is only one competitive javelineer and only one for a reason.



  • The only thing I don’t like about fighting against javelins is that they can switch from defensive to offensive so easily and quickly without much counter play other than hoping they miss while you throw up your shield/serpentine/jump/whatever. With removal of forward chase mechanic, archer backpedaling after you hit their shield and they get a free throw.



  • Yes javelins are a bit strong but you can get short on ammo (sometimes) and you are forced to two types of attack (Stab and shield stab) which makes you easier to defend. You are an archer that most of the time might get killed in one hit. You are also using a buckler that isn’t the best kind of a shield that drains your stamina pretty fast. Nerfing javelins in my opinion isn’t the best thing to do as it would encourage people to use xbows/bows more often.



  • Nerfing javelins in my opinion isn’t the best thing to do as it would encourage people to use xbows/bows more often.

    Vice versa. I think nerf xbows and bows to encourage some more javelineers.



  • @Jstorm:

    Nerfing javelins in my opinion isn’t the best thing to do as it would encourage people to use xbows/bows more often.

    Vice versa. I think nerf xbows and bows to encourage some more javelineers.

    Yeah!



  • this again.

    hmm, i sometimes see (or play) dominating Javeliners, but only in games with a lot of noobs. with higher skilled play (still “pubs”) they don’t seem to keep up very well.

    Javeliner outside of his throw has only 1 good and 1 inferior attack, can’t combo, can’t riposte, and has few dragging options. that compared to all the options (5 different attacks, comboing, riposte, and a huge range of different drag-attacks and reverse attacks) there is really very little a Javeliner can do against skilled players. (throwing is FAR less doable against skilled players, they move too fast)

    i’m not sure if it’s UP or OP, but it is kinda Imba, and it really should get an alt-overhead.



  • In pub games its easy. As most people who fight you have the wrong mentality. They all think “hah, an archer that’s an easy kill”. A javelin in melee is a very powerful weapon. They are easy to kill if your not stupid and you actually treat them like a threat.

    Against good players well your pretty much fucked as a javelin player. As they treat you like a threat.



  • Here are some tips against Javelin users. I find the only people who play Javelin archer are players who already have plenty of experience in Chivalry so they know most of the tricks that come with it.

    1. Don’t try to charge a Javelin archer head on, try to approach from an unseen angle.

    2. Carry a shield if you can, it’s the best possible defence and much more reliable than serpentine.

    3. If he spots you, don’t stop moving or sprinting, you’ll make yourself an easy target.

    4. The hardest part to overcome is surviving that one throw a Javelin user does right before you reach him. IF you survive this, then the hardest part is over and you’re now probably fighting him in melee. Always be mindful of the Javelin users jab as it can be difficult to read at times.

    5. Be mindful of what Javelin type they are using. Heavy javelin will most likely kill you or leave you with no health if it touches you. The light javelin has a quick throw time but not as much damage, so you have to expect the archer to throw another javelin quickly after his first throw. Normal javelin has the best of both worlds with being quick while having respectable damage.

    6. Your last line of defence against a Javelineer throw is jumping. Javelins have a low trajectory and they arc down extremely quickly. Good javelin users know to aim for the head for those huge damage headshots, so if you can jump and make the javelin hit you in the chest or even the legs then you might just survive.

    7. For the love of god don’t let a Heavy Javelin user prod you in the back.

    8. Don’t be afraid to retreat. If you are trying to sneak up on the Javelin user and he spots you and you don’t think you can make it to him before he throws, don’t be afraid to turn around immediately and run away from him. The best thing you can do at times is not engage the Javelin archer and put yourself at range to him as the javelins have crappy range and are much easier to avoid with some distance between you. Just make sure not to get a Javelin between your shoulder blades if you run away from them.



  • @Jstorm:

    Nerfing javelins in my opinion isn’t the best thing to do as it would encourage people to use xbows/bows more often.

    Vice versa. I think nerf xbows and bows to encourage some more javelineers.

    This. Bows and Xbows are way too powerful. There exists very little reason to take javelins over bows in pretty much any situation. I have posted about this many times, so I won’t go back into detail.



  • defending battlegrounds, i was tearing it up with javelins. Run down as far as you can chucking a spear in anyone that dares to challenge your might, resupply. I kept pushing them all the way back to spawn getting support from my allies. Very powerful weapon indeed. Plus you can pick them up out of everyone you skewered and let the good times roll.



  • In TO the railguns terrify me more than the javs. Crossbow users can take me out from far further away. With a zwei and some good dodging I can kill a skilled jav user most of the time.



  • I played a lot of javelin recently, and something must have changed in the last patch or two because I had an absolute ball. I think the difference was javelins sticking in the environment/players, and being able to get them back. If I could get behind the main fight then charging at bowmen and crossbows, taking their arrow in the buckler and skewering them with a chest shot feels pretty godly. Running up to their corpse and using that same spear to get the next one was absolute bliss. Knowing enough about combat to backstab cocky vanguards and knights who mistake you for an easy kill felt tantamount to cheating.

    Worth noting though, this was directly after the summer sale. There were a lot of new players around, a lot of archers standing still and people running in straight predictable lines. In the time since, when servers are filled with more experienced players it’s been notably harder to get any good traction with the javelin, if anything he can be the most frustratingly ineffective class in the game as it stands now.

    Three things that harm him (that aren’t his advertised weaknesses, like low health):

    1. You can’t always get your javelins back: Basically on any level that isn’t using the ‘ground floor’ of the map construction (say the last stages of stoneshill or hillside) you’ll find javelins disappear into the things they hit. Any props or artifacts also do this. Seems to be fixed in the beta though, so javelins are about to get stronger again.

    2. Reload bug while throwing: get hit mid throw and you’re a dead man. The ‘reload’ restarts (as it does with all ranged/thrown weapons) and you can’t block until it’s over AND will restart if you get hit again. Combo a raised or throwing javelin and you’ve got a free kill with any weapon, even a dagger if you can keep the string going. TB have confirmed the bug. (And now you know it I bet you won’t find them a threat, but a free meal).

    3. Wonky hitboxes/tracers: There’s something about the throw. The noise and animation don’t really fit what is happening. A real throw would start very fast and slow down almost immediately, be at first almost level and then drop off. The chivalry throw seems a fixed speed from start to finish and flies in an even arc that drops immediately, with a weird delay in launch that I can only describe as ‘off’. This makes the odd proposition of it actually being harder to hit things in the close-mid range than further away. It also has to be unnervingly precise. All ranged weapons require pinpoint precision, which can get frustrating when you see a spear as thick as your wrist whistle past someone’s shoulder an atom away from making contact. The melee tracers are also crazy off. The jab will hit people on your right, and miss things in the center (also confirmed by TB) and the buckler attack and bash simply miss most things they look like they’d hit, despite looking like easy attacks to make contact with (not unique to the javelin, that, but all shield attacks).

    Things that make him ridiculous:

    1. Backstab. Two shot a knight from the front by turning into him from the right as he swings (similar to how you’d get around a shield). That’s kind of OP, but also is more down to the knight’s lack of skill for letting you do it. A boot in the face would see you without stamina and dead shortly after.

    Whoever said they’re strong against inexperience and weak otherwise had it more or less right. There are things to fix though.



  • javs are super powerful, but it has limitations. In melee fights where both have full health, you usually lose out. You have a lot of power in your hands with the javs, i prefer short spear so i’ll talk about that. With the short spear you have 6 VERY quick throws, you recover pretty fast so you can throw them very quickly. My strategy is to usually attack any vanguard as my main bread and butter, i try to get all of the vanguards out of the way as they are my easieast target, i can 1 shot them to the head, and even a body shot has them 1 hit away from death, so they will slow down after being hit or become very frazzled/frustrated. Then i turn my attack toward anything without a shield, focusing on knights mainly. Once you can damage their knights and vanguards or take them out, you’ve eliminated their pushing force almost single handedly, you hitting them even once makes it an easy clean up kill for any of your teammates to pick up on, or if you see an already bloody or weakened you can take them out with a throw or a poke. Always claim your ammo off hit targets and move along. The key to playing jav is just like archer, you want to stay with your group, and not try to lone wolf TOO much. Whenever our team has an advantage i always push forward, always resupply ammo and even try to stay in front of my team. I try to do damage to anyone i can before my team gets there so i’ll run out ahead and do what i can, if i fail or get a few hits in and am running low, i’ll let them pass me and clean up. Always claim ammo and resupply whenever you can.

    This weapon is devastating… most of the time if you get a hit on a vanguard or a knight, if its a headshot they are either dead or very hurt, you can easily finish them off with a poke or shield bash. Men at arms and archers are very weak after being hit or dead… so if you can get a grasp of throwing them and be patient with your throws holding them up until you get a good shot… they are VERY powerful. The only downside i see to them really is the buckler shield is a true hinderance. It’s also very risky to throw those last second throws when someone is charging you because if you miss, you’re dead, you get hit in recovery once and you’re done, plain and simple. Playing a good javelin is always moving, and always choosing the most optimal target, in my case, this is vanguards, and knights that aren’t carrying shields, you do your team no help by wasting your highly damaging javs by throwing them directly into shields… just find another target.

    in conclusion, javs are amazing and a ton of fun, you just have to play smart, and not be too wreckless. I don’t believe it’s mainly a melee class and shouldn’t be treated as one, it’s still a ranged class, your range is just different from bows, medium to short range is where you shine.


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