[Suggestion] Survival Gamemode



  • Hello

    I’ve been following both the mod and game for some time now, and one thing that I believe would benefit the survival of the game itself in terms of maintaining interest would be some form of a survival gamemode. The basic concept would be a certain amount of players, i.e. 8, defending a position against waves of enemy A.i. As each wave progresses, the number of enemies in a wave increases; however I think all this should be dependant on the number of players, so if there’s 5 players, there would be less enemies in a wave opposed to having 8 players. Expanding on that the higher the wave, the more enemies and the more dangerous enemy types that the player is faced against; so in the first 5 waves for example, only peasents may attack or some other form of weak unit, and then after wave 5 a slightly more powerful enemy is introduced into the waves and it continues to progress like that, gradually getting harder. Also just to ensure you fully understand what I mean, not all enemies would spawn at once, but only a limit of 26 at a time for example, but 300 allowed to spawn, to simulate 300 attackers, with a checker to ensure that when the 300 have spawned, no more spawning and when the last A.I on the map dies, next wave. Although this mode would become repetative due to being never ending aswell as iminent defeat, it would provide challenge, competitivity and teamwork amongst the player base.

    Now ive suggested the basic concept, i’ll go into detail. As waves become harder, the player inventory should improve, so for the first few waves they may have basic weapons to defend there position, but as the waves progress, gain access to more advanced weaponary. To do this, an Honour system could be implimented, and each time an enemy is killed they gain honour points (the number depending on the enemy type). These honour points could simulate the Kings outlook on your effort, when recieving points he is pleased with your war effort, and these can be spent on better weapons. Also it would be good if there was a main gate, which was destructable, and repairable; so when the enemy damage the gate during a wave, players would be able to use there honour to repair the damage done.

    Concluding I think such a mode would bring players together, such as small clans to use teamwork surviving as long as possible, and it gives players a break from the regular modes. Such modes also allow individuals to stand out more, if there’s only 6 players fighting together, each players skill will be identified better opposed to 16 vs 16, where only people at the top of the score board stand out.



  • Hey man, this is a good idea. We actually talked about “possibly” doing something like this, will have to see what happens! Thanks for the input.



  • Thanks for the positive feedback, and i’m very glad to see you’ve already considered it in the past. I understand this isn’t a gamemode that could be implimented in a day, it would take longer to develop etc, and I know your all busy as it is with the core features, but I think it’s something that perhaps you could release in a content pack or something in the future.



  • @Circle:

    Defened-your-base-survival-mode.
    It would be a co-op defending mode.

    One team (agathians, for discussion purposes) is inside a smallish base, with some modest defenses, such as a ballista or two and some destructible barriers. The other team (masons [NPC], for discussion purposes) tries to break in and raise a flag or destroy some object in the middle of the base. The defenders must merely hold out for as long as possible. The game would go continuously until the defenders fell, thus the survival mode aspect.

    Attackers (NPC’s) would be infinite, defenders may be limited on lives. (three per defender, maybe). Maybe not, depending on balance.

    Would be additionally epic because the record for longest survival on a given survival map would be uploaded to the CBfA website/mentioned in-game, so it would encourage global competition.

    Lurk moar :) (Although I will say you did suggest some other things that I didn’t.) This is from the Objective Ideas thread. Slightly miscategorized on my part, I guess.



  • Hey guys we are considering including this as a game mode. Does anyone else have suggestions about how it could be implemented, single player or co-op?



  • Glad to here your putting this gamemode into consideration, responding to your post ill provide some personal input.

    First, I think both Singleplayer and Co-op should be made avaliable for this mode. This widens the audience for who can play the mode, if it’s restricted to co-op, people without an internet connection can’t take advantage of the gamemode; and if its singleplayer, people do not have the option to play together. Yet Co-op would be the main feature for this gamemode because as shown in other games such as L4D, and COD WaW, the teamwork appeals to people greatly, and doing so will attract more players.

    Also just to make my concept on the gamemode clear, I believe this gamemode should restrict the players to a confined space, whether it’s inside a castle, village, or cave. This will influence teamwork to protect that position with organised skill, such as strategically organising the team to specific locations, i.e. one player on a wall, etc.

    Moving on from this, I think it’s important that when coding the gamemode the number of enemy A.I attacking the players is dependant on the number of players. So if there’s 1 person, the player will have less enemies compared to if there was 4 players in Co-op. Without doing this the gamemode will not be fair, and when competing against other teams, if one team has a player short then there’s instantly a disadvantage.

    Camping:

    Camping could be one potential issue, whether it’s remaining in a room with no way for ranged AI to shoot the players, and only a small gap for AI melee enemies to attack the players. To deal with this issue, I think forcing the player to move, by keeping player support objects (i.e. arrow ammunition for player archers) in the open where A.I. archers can hit the players could resolve this issue to a certain extent. Another method to deal with camping, could be by adding a sub objective, used to keep the players on there feet by reacting to this sub-objective. An example of this could be at the back of the position being defended, a gate which stores projectiles (arrows), and if the A.I destroy this gate, they lose the ability to regain projectiles.

    Maintaining Player Interest over a period of time:

    Although the overal gamemode will be addicting and appealing to players, using teamwork; to enhance the competitive aspect of the gamemode there definately needs to be a clear, simple wave system starting from wave 1 and above, which is also implemented into the HUD, clearly showing what wave the players are currently on. This allows them to save the score etc and put it on the internet to show off, at the same time influencing the use of the forums. Aswell as this, somewhere in the actual game main menu, the player could be able to open a menu to have a glance at his best performance in the gamemode to date, showing more advanced statistics, i.e. kills, deaths etc.

    Here is a couple of idea’s which could be implemented to maintain the interest as the levels increase. Primarily some form of unlock system could be added specifically for this gamemode over a long term scale, so when the player gains so much xp/kills (dependant on how the current RPG system works) they unlock an ability, such as an arrow strike, allowing the player to some how call in an arrow attack on a certain position; this may seem unrealistic, and therefore even unlocking the ability to raise the moral, improving allied statistics over a set period of time. Such abilities, dependant on the ability would have cooldown timers or restriction to usage in the gamemode. However such features may be drifting off the original game concept, yet i’m laying idea’s down on the table.

    Number of players:

    With the number of classes, perhaps the number of players should be restricted to 6 by default, as im aware the game currently has 5 classes, and so having 6 players allows all classes to be used strategically in the gamemode. Also in a gamemode like this, players will want to start from wave 1 rather than jumping in a game and so a shortage of dedicated servers would be avaliable, making local servers a very common occurance; if there’s a large number of players on a local server the gameplay may be effected due to latency depending on the players computer/network.

    I may update this if I see fit.



  • I just thought of some ideas to add to this, just note, i didn’t completely read all of these texts (but i did read most of them).

    To keep the defending team on their feet, they could have a limited supply of equipment(arrows, bombs, lamp oil, rope etc) available at any one time. Once this runs out, a player or two can go and get another supply crate(as in a full on supply crate with 1000 arrows or so) from further in the castle walls. This would prevent griefing(people shooting all the arrows), and a thing that adds to the score would be to get a higher team kill/shot ratio with arrows.

    Another thing that might improve the game mode is the use of enemy siege weapons.

    And to increase immersion(Also because the unreal engine can do this), you might consider client side(to keep bandwidth usage limitation) crowds of enemies moving around outside the beseiged base(this doesnt need to be server side as the players cannot jump down to the enemies, or if they do, they die).

    Also I thought of a game mode name for this: Beseiged, so it’s kind of like living out the battle parts of a seige.

    If the players somehow win, they can probably see either a cutscene, or just watch the enemy force retreat… ooh ooh, perhaps the opjective is to hold out against the waves until reinforcements arrive. And the mode can start with a cutscene of a carrier pidgeon being sent away, perhaps even the king/lord giving an overdramatic speech about how they must hold out until sunrise for example.



  • I would love to see what the op said.



  • Hell yeah, this is an awesome idea
    I really hope you’ll add this gamemode. I know it will take a long time to make, but i’d love to see it in a future DLC :D



  • I think the host should be able to choose a difficulty setting,i.e. easy (enemies have 50% of their normal hp), normal (75% hp) and hard (100% hp) and maybe insane (100% hp and 50% more spawns?) or something like that. So you are not stuck with a difficulty setting which is not too hard/easy depending on your skill/mates.


  • Developer

    Glad this thread was revived, kick some more thoughts around, we’re on the fence about including this and we need some good reasons/methods to do it and make it stand out from this mode in other games.



  • If it’s against the A.I. it could serve as practice for teammates to work together in real PvP battles:

    You could make the bots parry perfectly so that players will have to work together and time their blows in such a way that they arrive at different times, making it impossible for the bot to block everything.
    You could also just give the players increased damage for landing blows separately or from behind.

    A way to make it stand out from other games? Guns are for kittens, real men use broadswords! Make it not another zombie-slaughter where you execute a perfected-over-time tactic like a drone, the sound of your gun blazing becoming repetitive. Make it hectic, make it fast, make it fun! :P [/speech]



  • @Falc:

    I think the host should be able to choose a difficulty setting,i.e. easy (enemies have 50% of their normal hp), normal (75% hp) and hard (100% hp) and maybe insane (100% hp and 50% more spawns?) or something like that. So you are not stuck with a difficulty setting which is not too hard/easy depending on your skill/mates.

    Yes, a difficulty setting should be possible. Then theres challenge for both beginners and experienced players
    Also, this reminds me of killing floor. God, i love survival teamplay games :)



  • @Tibberius:

    Glad this thread was revived, kick some more thoughts around, we’re on the fence about including this and we need some good reasons/methods to do it and make it stand out from this mode in other games.

    Reason to implement: Can serve as both a casual and hardcore time waster, is a game mode that can be played alone or with just a few players and still provide excitement for those times when there are just no good servers populated/running maps you want to play/etc. And of course, people just want it. I think this category is pretty easy to fulfill.

    Method of implementation: First of all, I think the amount of AI units at any one time would have to be pretty low. Not even 26-low, I’m talking like 12, maybe 16 - simply because AI scripts tend to generate a LOT of traffic, so much so that most normal servers wouldn’t be able to handle that many bots without lagging everyone. That is, unless server/AI technology has improved a shitload in recent times. I know TF2 bots, for example, can really lag up a server.

    I think Dawn of War 2 did a “survival” mode relatively well with Last Stand - you can play just to see how long you can survive, but if you’re adept at the game you’ll end up playing for points. There were two capture points on the small Last Stand map, and when you held one of them you got a score multiplier - when you held both, you got an even more significant multiplier. Something like that in Chivalry Survival would definitely be a good system to go by. It keeps you on the move rather than just camping. You could split up to hold all of the points, or gather as a group and move from point to point re-capturing them individually; the former would get you the most points, but you might eventually be overwhelmed if the AI coordinate an attack on one group at a time. The latter would be safer but wouldn’t net you as many points, and constantly moving around leaves you open to archer fire as well (and we all know how ridiculous accurate those AI archers can be).

    Having multiple maps with different kinds of objectives in keeping with the Chivalry gameplay spirit would be a good option as well. For example, you could have defense objectives where the AI will act normally as they move towards objectives, but when in range they’ll ignore the players and go all-out trying to destroy the objectives. Maybe even have some special spawning AI who ignore players from the start and sprint faster (simulate objective whores in real games :p) towards the objectives to be destroyed/captured/etc. - objective based gameplay takes the survival aspect further from just “you have to survive” to “you have to defend this even if it costs you your single, non-respawning life”

    For how it would stand out: well, in other survival games like Left 4 Dead and other survival game modes on other games, the vast majority of them are firearms based. I think that Chivalry’s medieval combat aspect alone makes this kind of game type stand out compared to similar games. Defending yourself from hordes of enemies with a gun is an entirely different dynamic from defending with a sword, knowing that you could cleave your teammate’s face off if you make a wrong move.



  • I like these ideas :D

    anyways the dow2 last stand game was realy very good and ive probably played more time on that than all of the other modes combined, I liked the way that the new wargear earned was ONLY different to some other wargeer option (much like how many ppl have said bfbc2s system worked) and did not instantly make you better. Presuming this and normal multiplayer have some sort of class/character customization like this then i think that it would help the system



  • BFBC2? Excuse me, but you start without perks, and magnum ammo/body armor/explosive damage upgrade give you a whopping 25% upgrade.

    Trolololol



  • ugh i forgot about them uber-perks, but if you HAVEN’T spent umptity-long getting to whatever level they are unlocked the system worked quite well e.g. the pistols had different +/-'s like dmg, ammo, fire rate etc but were all suitably “balanced” compared CoD’s “get-a-FAMAS-win-the-game” style approach…

    moving along i’m getting the biggest, badass ranged halberd pos and slashing for hell-leather amongst some NPC meat :berz: :evil: :big:



  • This sounds fun!

    I like the idea of a small group being holed up in some abandoned castle, firing off ballista bolts until the portcullis is wrecked, falling back deeper into the castle away from ammo resupply crates, fighting to the last, barely repelling attacks, backed into a wall, no way out, doom inevitable! That kind of thing is always exciting.

    Other than the setting, a way you could make this gametype stand out from others would be the AI. I’ve yet to see something really neat in regards to how the waves of enemies go about killing you and your friends. It’s always a sort of shambling rush. As for what something “really neat” might entail, I leave that to be expanded upon.
    EDIT: I guess I was thinking things like heavy shield users protecting reloading crossbowmen, enemies using tactics, that sort of thing.



  • Well, for this mode there are 2 possible approaches:

    -The DoW 2 approach stated above: very simple map, bots try to cap a couple of objectives then go after the players. They would spawn in waves, each more challenging than the previous one,that could either be infinite like in CoD Zombies, or have a set number of waves with some kind of boss or great challenge at the end. I dont know, a war elephant or something.

    The most feasible in my opinion, the AI required is much simpler, and devs can focus on developing combat AI instead of making the bots good at navigating through a complex map, using stuff and interacting with the environment. The 2 objectives could be held for points, or because they provide any kind of benefit to the players. Also, some of all of the objectives could be “destroyed” when capped by the AI, and players cant take them back and lose the bonus for the rest of the game. Possible bonuses? Well, you could have: a destroyable objective that allows you to change your class between waves, and a re-cappable objective with an ammo box, that provides limited healing between waves (If the AI caps it, you cant heal or get ammo of course). Players should be able to revive fallen comrades, provided there aren´t enemies around. Also, there could be a hardcore mode with no revivals and no healing, AT ALL.

    The biggest challenge for the dev team (apart from the AI) would be to find a way to make each wave more challenging. Stats increases? Being onehit by the bots sounds challenging, but having to hit one 6 or 7 times in order to bring him down doesnt sound that great, specially with the stamina bar. More numerous waves? although capping the number of bots at the same time in the map is logic, each wave doesnt have to spawn at the same time. For example, 12 bots spawn, thats wave one. Wave two, 12 bots spawn, when they are down another 12 bots spawn, end of wave 2. As healing is limited to the end of each round, it would be more challenging. Also, the composition of the bot force would vary, from lighter classes, to including heavier and heavier classes.

    -The complex approach: All of the above, but in more complex maps. The bots go around actually doing stuff, pushing a ram to your gates, breaking it, climbing ladders, taking the walls, assaulting the last tower… really cool mode, this mod wouldn´t have “waves” but it could have milestones, like each X time a very tough group of hardened foes spawns, or a boss (a very strong heavy knight, for example. Onehits everyone but the heaviest classes, takes a lot of punishment). Players would have to survive for as long as possible (with and end that grants you victory, or just endless waves), would have boiling oil, ballistas and all kind of stuff at their disposal to delay the bots, while their situation becomes more and more desperate. All this defensive stuff would be very limited in order to avoid exploits, so they can be used right away, or in moments of great trouble.

    Well, thats all for today, let me know what you think.



  • @Campin:

    ugh i forgot about them uber-perks, but if you HAVEN’T spent umptity-long getting to whatever level they are unlocked the system worked quite well e.g. the pistols had different +/-'s like dmg, ammo, fire rate etc but were all suitably “balanced” compared CoD’s “get-a-FAMAS-win-the-game” style approach…

    moving along i’m getting the biggest, badass ranged halberd pos and slashing for hell-leather amongst some NPC meat :berz: :evil: :big:

    to be fair, in cod4 (only cod game i’ve played with unlockables, no interest in the newer ones) you pretty much started with or unlocked the best guns in the game very early. M4, AK47, MP5, M40 sniper, what more do you need really?

    discounting the fact that auto sniperrifles were terribly balanced because they did the exact same damage as bolt action and just had weaker hitbox multipliers so you killed anyone with 2 bodyshots instead of 1 headshot while shooting 300x faster


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