Dear, Dearest Devs - Please remove panic parry



  • Remove panic parry and encourage more footwork, timing and fluidity of combat. The non-stop parrying until stamina is gone is really repetitive and doesn’t capture the dynamism of combat. It was fine before. New players adapted and you had a REAL fighting game. Now the combat seems abrupt and jerky. So far I’ve gotten 5 of my friends to buy this game, so I love you guys and will continue to support your efforts so long as you put out a good product. But listen to your common sense and remove panic parry. Thank you.



  • Learn to attack people’s sides better, or feint.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Learn to attack people’s sides better, or feint.

    I’m already adapting… but in the meantime, the game should be improved.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Learn to attack people’s sides better, or feint.

    That is completely fine, but OP does have a valid point. Combat is really clunky and there is no reward for good footwork, both offensively and defensively with this mechanic.

    I loved this game when people could just dance around multiple opponents to find an opening, now it’s just lost. :|



  • @jrmftw:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Combat is really clunky and there is no reward for good footwork,

    Blame sprint lockout for that, not panic parry.



  • What the fuck is with the spambots lately?!

    I’m all for removal of panic parry only because I always accidentally do one when trying to feint and stuff.



  • I personaly think it’s better now. The new blocking mechanic forces you to use a more varied tactics and attacks. Not the old hack and slash of old. If you bash until you’re out of stamina, you’re doing it wrong.

    That beeing said, I hope they keep evolving the combat.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Learn to attack people’s sides better, or feint.

    feints are better, attacking sides still work but if you’ve noticed parries block from behind now lol, also the side… also everywhere



  • @erucolindo:

    I personaly think it’s better now. The new blocking mechanic forces you to use a more varied tactics and attacks. Not the old hack and slash of old. If you bash until you’re out of stamina, you’re doing it wrong.

    That beeing said, I hope they keep evolving the combat.

    did you own the game pre-patch? if not what are you comparing “better now” to? I’m always curious with new users, so just out of curiosity.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @jrmftw:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Combat is really clunky and there is no reward for good footwork,

    Blame sprint lockout for that, not panic parry.

    There’s a difference between the stupid ‘dancing’ tactic and good footwork. Pre-patch, I was able to fool an opponent into attacking while I was just outside their range, then run in and hit them during recovery. It took awhile to learn timing, weapon ranges and footwork, but eventually I could win duels using only that strategy, even beating some much higher levels.

    Now, if I try it, even if my timing is 100% perfect, even level 0s will just be like ‘LOLOLO PANIC PARRY’.



  • yeah but they can’t riposte off the panic parry and it costs them a bucket of stamina….



  • @giantyak:

    yeah but they can’t riposte off the panic parry and it costs them a bucket of stamina….

    you don’t NEED a riposte off panic parry, it’s better not to directly riposte because it’s SOOO easy to parry again. You can wait a split second then attack, and even after the parry, the delay isn’t long at all, in some cases it might already throw someones parry off by being not instantaneous.

    People don’t understand that theres a combo parry, which has NO window to punish mistakes. Why are we rewarding life to players that make mistakes over and over, and give them a band-aid to cover their mistakes?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMucYwEl5xs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUMnp3NA5Xfysq2LWY9jtgpA&t=6m57s

    This video, at 6m57 seconds will show you an archer that parries, gets dodged, it looks to you like their attack isn’t even finished yet, yet a parry comes magically out of nowhere… no punishment for missed swings. Even the maa dodge sprint tactic can no longer be used in most cases against such an IMPENETRABLE skillful defense. There is 0 window to punish a mistake. It happens 2 times in this little mixup here.

    Recovery parry isn’t really the problem perhaps, its the COMBO parry, which people fail to realize. You can combo into a prry now from an attack. 2 attacks have a windup for each attack… attack then parry has windup for the attack, but the parry has 0 windup, no delay or anything. I don’t want a delay mind you, god no i don’t want any more limiting timers making you lose control, but combo parry is an absolute joke.

    If new players are still getting owned in masses and quitting servers because better players are still crushing their skulls in… why does all this shit have to exist to ruin gameplay? It’s not helping noobs which it set out to do… it makes no sense to dumb the game down to cater to new players… they are going to be new regardless and still get wiped out by more experience… so why make both sides still unhappy? eventually, more noob things will be added to the game to make it even easier for noobs since they STILL will get owned. It makes zero sense after it has proven to not work for intended purpose. Why not put skilll ceiling back up high, and let players learn to be good. Do you expect somoene from counterstrike to be beating clans and pro players after 20 hours of play?? did valve nerf counterstrike to make it easier to aim guns and reduce spread to cater to new players because they couldn’t beat competitive pros? NO THEY DIDN’T… why chivalry?



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    This video, at 6m57 seconds will show you an archer that parries, gets dodged, it looks to you like their attack isn’t even finished yet, yet a parry comes magically out of nowhere… no punishment for missed swings.

    Funny, this looks to be exactly what CFtP accomplished; the difference is that CFtP had far less weaknesses.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    If new players are still getting owned in masses and quitting servers because better players are still crushing their skulls in… why does all this shit have to exist to ruin gameplay? It’s not helping noobs which it set out to do…

    This is where you may be wrong. Allow me to explain how it might look from a noob’s point of view. You see, most of us here, on the forums, started playing this game close to release, back when everybody, with the possible exception of the devs and testers, was a noob. It was a friendly enviroment to grow in. Now, imagine yourself, with the skillset you had in your first day of playing, getting tossed into a game today. For reference, being a rank 39 exclusively pub player, I get some serious competition in official servers, as at least half of it is fulled with rank 30+ players, with a few 40+ veterans, and the absolute majority being in the 20+ ranges. With the rare unfortunate 0-10 tossed in there.

    Now, those people did get owned before, and they still do. But the difference is HOW it looks on the receiving end. I don’t really think any player on his first day/week goes into a new game expecting to kick ass straight away. But the recovery parry made losing look somewhat more satisfying. At least parrying a couple of times from the missed swing prolongs the fight in their favor and makes it look like THEY actually put up a fight. It makes the “I got owned in a fight” somewhat better now, when before all these noob friendly changes too place, it was more of “I got buttraped with no lube” kind of owned. I think it encourages them to be patient and ragequit less, now that the fights no longer look SO one sided.

    As for how it affects us veterans- what about it? Sure, it adds a few seconds to every fight, and I encourage it. But I am actually happy to see someone use the recovery parry- it means their stamina is way closer to the end than mine is, and I’ll finish them off by exhaustion, if they make no mistakes otherwise (of which they make plenty).



  • @Velociraptor:

    This is where you may be wrong. Allow me to explain how it might look from a noob’s point of view. You see, most of us here, on the forums, started playing this game close to release, back when everybody, with the possible exception of the devs and testers, was a noob. It was a friendly enviroment to grow in. Now, imagine yourself, with the skillset you had in your first day of playing, getting tossed into a game today. For reference, being a rank 39 exclusively pub player, I get some serious competition in official servers, as at least half of it is fulled with rank 30+ players, with a few 40+ veterans, and the absolute majority being in the 20+ ranges. With the rare unfortunate 0-10 tossed in there.

    Now, those people did get owned before, and they still do. But the difference is HOW it looks on the receiving end. I don’t really think any player on his first day/week goes into a new game expecting to kick ass straight away. But the recovery parry made losing look somewhat more satisfying. At least parrying a couple of times from the missed swing prolongs the fight in their favor and makes it look like THEY actually put up a fight. It makes the “I got owned in a fight” somewhat better now, when before all these noob friendly changes too place, it was more of “I got buttraped with no lube” kind of owned. I think it encourages them to be patient and ragequit less, now that the fights no longer look SO one sided.

    As for how it affects us veterans- what about it? Sure, it adds a few seconds to every fight, and I encourage it. But I am actually happy to see someone use the recovery parry- it means their stamina is way closer to the end than mine is, and I’ll finish them off by exhaustion, if they make no mistakes otherwise (of which they make plenty).

    You’re not thinking anything new, we’ve already put a lot of thought into that. And I still argue otherwise: everyone who was a noob at any time will do poorly in this game most of the time and will learn from it and strive to become better. Those are the players who should be staying, and trying to balance the game around those that would quit instead of trying to become better shouldn’t stay and should not be balanced around. The stuff we spent 1000+ hours discovering is something you can learn to do in 5 minutes of research. It’s the exact same scenario. When a noob dies, he can still ask him self “Okay, so why did I die? What killed me?” and combo feint to parry was the same deal. “How did he go for an attack but still block mine? I WANT TO LEARN HOW TO DO THAT” is how the game should be. If someone would quit and say “LOLNO JUST AN EXPLOIT BUG” at that then they should quit and don’t deserve to play this game. They shouldn’t be allowed to make this game worse. Combo feint to parry was never an exploit or a bug, it was the beautiful interaction of many game mechanics that didn’t break the game. You know what was an example of an exploit bug? The perma feint Norse sword. There was a huge difference between perma feint Norse and combo feint to parry, and if you can’t see or understand that, you shouldn’t be playing this game and ruining it for those of us who do.

    Recovery parry only makes fighting noobs take longer and thus give their team more chances to catch up with you and make you lose a 1vsx situation you used to be able to win and even avoid before. The noob is going to lose regardless of combo feint to parry or recovery parry or simply punishing them in their recovery. This just makes fighting them take way longer and it’s a terribly boring thing having to spend so long on them, and has many adverse effects. You need to kill them quickly and move on fast, and the game was great like that.



  • @SOC:

    Recovery parry only makes fighting noobs take longer and thus give their team more chances to catch up with you and make you lose a 1vsx situation you used to be able to win and even avoid before. The noob is going to lose regardless of combo feint to parry or recovery parry or simply punishing them in their recovery. This just makes fighting them take way longer and it’s a terribly boring thing having to spend so long on them, and has many adverse effects. You need to kill them quickly and move on fast, and the game was great like that.

    Exactly, the additions of recovery parries (combo, panic etc) removed the possibility of successfully taking on multiple opponents by judging weapon reach and speed and using good footwork against it ,which took a hell of a lot of skill to master. Now, no matter how hard you try, they can constantly just parry out of their mistake, which takes far far less skill to master.



  • at least remove combo parry, see what would happen if only actual recovery parries exist, and not combo parry. Combo parry eliminates any punishment. If attacks ACTUALLY had to wait until recovery period, there might be SOME SMALL WINDOW to attack in, currently there’s no time between attack and parry because of combo parry. Remove COMBO parry, leave the recovery parry, lets see how that goes.



  • Combo-Parry has a gigantic deadzone. It’s easy to catch a combo-parry and punish it if done stupidly. The biggest use for it is for 1v2s or attempting to prevent a hittrade.

    Using it to bait someone to attack isn’t always the best idea, because you don’t know if your opponent is going to attempt an early punishment or not (most people don’t).



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Combo-Parry has a gigantic deadzone. It’s easy to catch a combo-parry and punish it if done stupidly. The biggest use for it is for 1v2s or attempting to prevent a hittrade.

    Using it to bait someone to attack isn’t always the best idea, because you don’t know if your opponent is going to attempt an early punishment or not (most people don’t).

    the combo parry is why as maa if you dodge back and try to attack in an opening you cannot. It’s the reason you cannot duck under an attack and capitalize on a miss with a queued strike. It’s why you can’t use matrixing as well for the same reason ducking doesn’t work. It’s the same reason a lot of even sidestepped attaacks go unpunished. Its the reason why any footworked attack goes unpunished using range or a missed attempt by your opponent.

    I see that as a problem nova. I’m glad you like not being able to punish people for mistakes but i’d like to be able to punish for mistakes. If i make a mistake i expect to be punished for it… and i expect to punish others for their mistakes.

    “you should delay your swing and wait for the actual panic parries” “you should feint” blah blah blah. I know i know… no need to point that out.

    also, the matrix mayhem server is far from competitive. Cool mods? yes… but far from competitive. Bot farming. Noobs running around in low gravity throwing 50+ javs out, speeding all over the map… that’s not competitive. Can be fun? yes, but that’s not what i call competitive gameplay, thats fucking around having fun kind of shit.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    the combo parry is why as maa if you dodge back and try to attack in an opening you cannot. It’s the reason you cannot duck under an attack and capitalize on a miss with a queued strike. It’s why you can’t use matrixing as well for the same reason ducking doesn’t work. It’s the same reason a lot of even sidestepped attaacks go unpunished. Its the reason why any footworked attack goes unpunished using range or a missed attempt by your opponent.

    I see that as a problem nova. I’m glad you like not being able to punish people for mistakes but i’d like to be able to punish for mistakes. If i make a mistake i expect to be punished for it… and i expect to punish others for their mistakes.

    “you should delay your swing and wait for the actual panic parries” “you should feint” blah blah blah. I know i know… no need to point that out.

    also, the matrix mayhem server is far from competitive. Cool mods? yes… but far from competitive. Bot farming. Noobs running around in low gravity throwing 50+ javs out, speeding all over the map… that’s not competitive. Can be fun? yes, but that’s not what i call competitive gameplay, thats fucking around having fun kind of shit.

    Well said.


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