My opinion about balance in the latest version



  • Hey all.
    In this thread I want to tell you my (MY, not the one of people I play with) opinion about the balancing in the game of the latest version.

    First of all: I like it!
    I see many people complaining and flaming around as hell, but if you don’t mind some exceptions, the balance is great in my opinion.
    The spear and the brandistock nerf is good. Especially the longer windup for the brandistock. But I get the impression that the brandistock’s counter-slash hits you before you are able to block. But I may be wrong about that.

    One thing I still dislike: The claymore.
    Unfortunately I see 90% of the vanguards using the claymore. And in my opinion it’s OP. And bugged, too. It gets out of sync and it’s just way too fast for it’s reach and damage. You can still twohit vanguards by poking their face. And the pokes are damn fast! Also I get the impression, that this patch fixed ghost or phantom swings (however they’re called), except for the Claymore. In fact, I seem to get MORE ghosthits of it than prepatch! I see the enemy doing a feint, but actually he DOESN’T! I get the damage…

    But if you keep the claymore out of mind I’m really satisfied with the balancing.

    If TBS would ask me for a suggestion on what they should do next, I’d suggest to fix the claymore and concentrate on fixing bugs. Especially stab hitdetection. When using the tracers I saw that it’s a bit off.

    At the end of my post I want to say: TBS, you did a great job! I love this patch!
    And before you start replying: I know that my opinion doesn’t mean any more than yours and I know that MANY of you don’t agree. But this is MY opinion and I would really appreciate it if you guys respect it.
    But of course I don’t mind reading your opinions, too.

    Best regards
    Peter



  • You should do some testing with polehammer and war hammer.



  • Balance is better than before for sure (thats true for every patch - even “the patch”). Some of the bigger issues I see so far:

    • Warbow Bodkins deal too much damage (Broadheads are fine)
    • Crossbow reload speed is too fast
    • the Pavise is incredibly bugged and unable to be used as the tactical tool it is meant to be
    • Shields are too weak in melee combat (especially true for the Buckler)

    The Claymore get those desyncs (I believe there are less after the customization update) - but thats not really a balance issue and more an obvious bug. The weapon itself is okay but having a Claymore that is faster than a Longsword just feels… wrong. Thats why many people say “its too fast” because it is too fast from a realism/common sense point of view. It also deals reduced damage and thats why its not problematic in gameplay terms. I still want a the old, real Claymore back.



  • I am currently playing a few hours of chivalry everyday. so, i love this game. but i have to agree with this quote on the steam forums:
    There are so many bullshit “tactics” in this game that are REALLY riding the line between legitimate and exploitative. When I got the game, I thought it was a lot of fun, but after playing it for quite some time and observing these mechanics in countless duels, the game just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that to keep up you’re forced to use shit tactics and animation exploits.



  • @Evil:

    Balance is better than before for sure (thats true for every patch - even “the patch”). Some of the bigger issues I see so far:

    • Warbow Bodkins deal too much damage (Broadheads are fine)
    • Crossbow reload speed is too fast
    • the Pavise is incredibly bugged and unable to be used as the tactical tool it is meant to be
    • Shields are too weak in melee combat (especially true for the Buckler)

    The Claymore get those desyncs (I believe there are less after the customization update) - but thats not really a balance issue and more an obvious bug. The weapon itself is okay but having a Claymore that is faster than a Longsword just feels… wrong. Thats why many people say “its too fast” because it is too fast from a realism/common sense point of view. It also deals reduced damage and thats why its not problematic in gameplay terms. I still want a the old, real Claymore back.

    From a realism point of view the claymore (which isn’t really a claymore but a scottish longsword) is nowhere near fast enough, but that applies to all longswords in the game, really. Otherwise, I agree with everything you’ve said. If bodkin damage was reduced a little, crossbow reload was slower and shields were better in melee then balance would be nearly perfect.



  • @Orkboy:

    @Evil:

    Balance is better than before for sure (thats true for every patch - even “the patch”). Some of the bigger issues I see so far:

    • Warbow Bodkins deal too much damage (Broadheads are fine)
    • Crossbow reload speed is too fast
    • the Pavise is incredibly bugged and unable to be used as the tactical tool it is meant to be
    • Shields are too weak in melee combat (especially true for the Buckler)

    The Claymore get those desyncs (I believe there are less after the customization update) - but thats not really a balance issue and more an obvious bug. The weapon itself is okay but having a Claymore that is faster than a Longsword just feels… wrong. Thats why many people say “its too fast” because it is too fast from a realism/common sense point of view. It also deals reduced damage and thats why its not problematic in gameplay terms. I still want a the old, real Claymore back.

    From a realism point of view the claymore (which isn’t really a claymore but a scottish longsword) is nowhere near fast enough, but that applies to all longswords in the game, really. Otherwise, I agree with everything you’ve said. If bodkin damage was reduced a little, crossbow reload was slower and shields were better in melee then balance would be nearly perfect.

    So you think in reallife you could swing them even faster? Human’s muscles aren’t even capaple of that. Twohanders are heavy!

    And the claymore has reduced damage? Well maybe… But it’s still too much for that reach and that speed. It’s reach is almost as far as the greatsword’s reach, it’s almost as fast (or as fast) as the broadsword and it still can twohit vanguards with it’s stabs.
    So if this isn’t OP, then the broadsword needs even more reach and damage. But then everyone would cry out.

    About the polehammer and warhammer… The warhammer is the knights onehanded hammer isn’t it? I don’t think it’s is OP in any way. I met many enemies wielding it. It’s damaghe is pretty good and it’s not that slow, but it’s reach is REALLY low. Most of the knights wielding it miss me all the time. I don’t even have to block. I just stay out of their reach and kill them.

    Polehammer… I don’t know what to say about it. I don’t see many players using it. Those that used it weren’t really good with it. Easy kills… The only thing I don’t like about it is the fact that it can onehit vanguards with it’s chargeattack.
    About then shields. Yes, it’s ture. The staminadrain is too high. I agree with that.

    Was good to see your guys opinions, even though I don’t agree with everything.
    It’s good to have a little discussion without rage.



  • @christobass:

    I am currently playing a few hours of chivalry everyday. so, i love this game. but i have to agree with this quote on the steam forums:
    There are so many bullshit “tactics” in this game that are REALLY riding the line between legitimate and exploitative. When I got the game, I thought it was a lot of fun, but after playing it for quite some time and observing these mechanics in countless duels, the game just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that to keep up you’re forced to use shit tactics and animation exploits.

    This comment is out of place and the “exploits” I know you’re thinking of are staying in the game because it gives more control to the player and don’t fight me on this because that has been stated by developers of the game. Heck, drags are even a loading screen tip as “real time strikes”.

    Polehammer… I don’t know what to say about it. I don’t see many players using it. Those that used it weren’t really good with it. Easy kills… The only thing I don’t like about it is the fact that it can onehit vanguards with it’s chargeattack.

    The problem I have with the polehammer is that when you stab someone, you’re stabbing them with a little spike on a hammer than 2 shots vanguards but when you stab someone with a bardiche it’s faster, longer but weak as hell, when looking at it, you’d think it had a decent stab. I, personally, think the polehammer and bardiche should trade stab damages, windups and releases. Otherwise the polehammer is perfectly balanced in being piss short or slow it’s just that it isn’t a two attack weapon that pushes it a little. Also, the charge attack is that way with all spears and polearms. I have no problem because of how hard it is to aim.



  • @Peter:

    So you think in reallife you could swing them even faster? Human’s muscles aren’t even capaple of that. Twohanders are heavy!

    If you think 2.5kg is heavy.
    Yes, I am very sure you and I could move a sword much faster in real life.



  • @Orkboy:

    @Peter:

    So you think in reallife you could swing them even faster? Human’s muscles aren’t even capaple of that. Twohanders are heavy!

    If you think 2.5kg is heavy.
    Yes, I am very sure you and I could move a sword much faster in real life.

    For quick jabs and slashes, probably, but in chiv there is none of that, just power swings.



  • Who knows what a power swing is. You can move a sword as fast as you can move your hands. The faster you move your hands the more power behind them. You can land any kind of strike with your own maximum power in the time it takes you to punch because that’s the movement your body is making. This game treats swords like super heavy baseball beats which you swing around in arcs really slowly.



  • Bodkins and crossbow reloads are fine.

    Claymore could probably get a slight speed reduction. I perfer the greatsword over the claymore and I don’t really have any particular problems dealing with it.

    In real life you would be able to swing a two handed sword almost as fast as a one handed. And you would be able to combo it better as you have more control over the weapon.

    And orlboy youdo realise that the name of a V shaped hilt Scottish longsword is called a claymore.



  • @lemonater47:

    In real life you would be able to swing a two handed sword almost as fast as a one handed. And you would be able to combo it better as you have more control over the weapon.

    You’d be able to move it faster as you have twice the amount of hands on it.

    @lemonater47:

    And orlboy youdo realise that the name of a V shaped hilt Scottish longsword is called a claymore.

    This is a misnomer. And please don’t link me to Wikipedia. This is a claymore http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/103 … DC7AB9FEA0
    From ‘claidheamh mor’, “big sword”. It’s used to differentiate between the basket hilted broad sword from the small sword, ‘claidheamh beg’. The longsword with a Scottish styled hilt represented in the game would have been called claidheamh da laidbh, “two-handed sword”, but never claymore. Bear in mind you will find many authors arguing the opposite but they usually go with the argument that “it’s in Encyclopaedia Britannica so it must be true”. Just because a misnomer has lapsed into modern usage and is thus included in modern dictionaries and encyclopaedias doesn’t mean it’s correct, but this is all very off topic isn’t it?



  • I’ll think I’ll believe Wikipedia more than an auction site.



  • @Jstorm:

    @christobass:

    I am currently playing a few hours of chivalry everyday. so, i love this game. but i have to agree with this quote on the steam forums:
    There are so many bullshit “tactics” in this game that are REALLY riding the line between legitimate and exploitative. When I got the game, I thought it was a lot of fun, but after playing it for quite some time and observing these mechanics in countless duels, the game just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that to keep up you’re forced to use shit tactics and animation exploits.

    This comment is out of place and the “exploits” I know you’re thinking of are staying in the game because it gives more control to the player and don’t fight me on this because that has been stated by developers of the game. Heck, drags are even a loading screen tip as “real time strikes”.

    Would you consider the duck/face down overhead that does insta-damage as one of those exploits that is considered okay? If so, I don’t even know what to think. Dragging is fine, it can be kind of cheap, but you can learn how to counter it. The insta-hit overhead on the other hand, that is a bit tougher to deal with.



  • @lemonater47:

    I’ll think I’ll believe Wikipedia more than an auction site.

    I simply linked the first picture I found on google images after typing “claymore basket”. I’ll believe real life historians and authorities such as Claude Blair and Mike Loades more than Wikipedia.



  • @locuststar:

    @Jstorm:

    @christobass:

    I am currently playing a few hours of chivalry everyday. so, i love this game. but i have to agree with this quote on the steam forums:
    There are so many bullshit “tactics” in this game that are REALLY riding the line between legitimate and exploitative. When I got the game, I thought it was a lot of fun, but after playing it for quite some time and observing these mechanics in countless duels, the game just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that to keep up you’re forced to use shit tactics and animation exploits.

    This comment is out of place and the “exploits” I know you’re thinking of are staying in the game because it gives more control to the player and don’t fight me on this because that has been stated by developers of the game. Heck, drags are even a loading screen tip as “real time strikes”.

    Would you consider the duck/face down overhead that does insta-damage as one of those exploits that is considered okay? If so, I don’t even know what to think. Dragging is fine, it can be kind of cheap, but you can learn how to counter it. The insta-hit overhead on the other hand, that is a bit tougher to deal with.

    An accelerated attack is a drag. When you say drag it means decelerated or accelerated, that includes reverse OHs and yes TBS has stated all forms of drags simply give more control to the player and open up more possibilities. And I honestly don’t see how accelerated attacks are cheap. They are what the name sugests… accelerated attacks, plain and simple. Arcadey or realistic it doesn’t matter. This game is not balanced after realism because if it were the game would be nearly 100% different.



  • @Orkboy:

    Who knows what a power swing is. You can move a sword as fast as you can move your hands. The faster you move your hands the more power behind them. You can land any kind of strike with your own maximum power in the time it takes you to punch because that’s the movement your body is making. This game treats swords like super heavy baseball beats which you swing around in arcs really slowly.

    That’s untrue. The claymore is fast, even the great sword is fast-ish. Great swords i’d seen at an exhibit weighed in at 7.9kg…… i thought that was light, but still its going to take some effort to swing.



  • @giantyak:

    @Orkboy:

    Who knows what a power swing is. You can move a sword as fast as you can move your hands. The faster you move your hands the more power behind them. You can land any kind of strike with your own maximum power in the time it takes you to punch because that’s the movement your body is making. This game treats swords like super heavy baseball beats which you swing around in arcs really slowly.

    That’s untrue. The claymore is fast, even the great sword is fast-ish. Great swords i’d seen at an exhibit weighed in at 7.9kg…… i thought that was light, but still its going to take some effort to swing.

    What you were looking at in those exhibitions were ceremonial swords, bearing swords or state swords, etc. Not swords designed for combat. 4kg is at the upper limit of a two handed sword’s weight, with some very rare exceptions. All swords are definitely far too slow in this game but that’s fine, it’d be impossible to simulate anything close to real life.

    Here’s a video of two guys practicing controlled longsword techniques. If that’s the speed of a longsword during a controlled drill, you can imagine what it’s like during competitive sparring, let alone actual life or death fighting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln94E9A … ata_player



  • @Orkboy:

    ….
    What you were looking at in those exhibitions were ceremonial swords, bearing swords or state swords, etc. Not swords designed for combat. 4kg is at the upper limit of a two handed sword’s weight, with some very rare exceptions. All swords are definitely far too slow in this game but that’s fine, it’d be impossible to simulate anything close to real life.

    Yes, you know what i saw….
    I was at a traveling museum for the worlds largest museum of medieval articles.

    @Orkboy:

    ….
    What you were looking at in those exhibitions were ceremonial swords…

    That’s what they told me when i was 6 at the tower of london lol. I dare say the ones at the tower of London were ceremonial, but these ones i’m talking about aren’t.

    Its ok though, i bought the book so i have a credible source for my information. I’ll dig it up when i can.



  • I know what you saw were ceremonial swords because you described them as such. 8kg is out of the average weight range for a functional combat sword but well within the range of a ceremonial sword. The fact that you said great sword makes me think you were looking at paratschwerte, not battlefield swords.

    Do you mind sharing the name of the book you’ve bought?


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