Daggars, bearded axe, HWS, and polearms are awful.



  • I had a great time playing tonight, much fun games.

    I just want to say that the weapons i mentioned above, are completely broken.

    Daggars, they hit an opponent from a recieving end much further than anyone would expect, the range was increased to deal with the bubble that shouldn’t be there in the first place because it causes more issues than is resolved, wihch is no issues. The point of the bubble was to alleviate some of the instant lookdown overheads, but it has not accomplished that, and has actually made combat worse, without doing what it set out to do. SO, daggars got increased range and basically hit at a shortsword range, BUT… they have way more speed, faster combo time, etc… so what does that do? Well… it makes a daggar that hits easily once, and then you can’t even parry in time for combo’d attacks. It’s worse than maa lookdown alt swings parry time, on a combo attack.

    Bearded axe, in conjunction with the lookdown overheads not being fixed, this becomes a nightmare weapon. There are literally attacks that hit so fast with lookdown overheads, that i went into duel servers and even when the guy KNEW the attack was coming to test, still missed the parry. Totally parryable yes, but only really if you know exactly when it’s coming. You can get within facehug range, aim correctly and lookdown crouch overhead for a VERY high percentage unblockable hit… no reaction speed can even touch it. It also seems to go through more parries than any other weapon, it’s totally broken and not balanced at all.

    HWS. Holy water sprinkler with men at arms is a nightmare. Even if you use the fastest secondary for most classes… you are going to get flinched for every attack with HWS. Even if you start windup first, the hws can start an attack afterward and still flinch and do damage with their attack. This is other classes, the knight has it the worst. If you go against HWS maa as knight, you’re pretty much fucked and they can have your lunch money… because it flinches any attack you try to throw, even after dodging. It’s too damn fast.

    Polearms… basic issue with these is lookdown instant overheads. Please just rid the damn collisino bubble, it’s awful and not even fixing the issue it set out to fix… so why keep it in the game? Instead remove hit tracers from the handle of weapons which tons of people have been suggesting.

    All of this mixed with swings that go though people, through parries, desyncs, all the other bugs existing… there is a LOT wrong with the game right now.

    I know TB is going to start working on their new expansion/ new game/ w/e… but PLEASE for the love of chivalry, fix chivalry. It’s broken in SO MANY WAYS… check the bug reports.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    I had a great time playing tonight, much fun games.

    I just want to say that the weapons i mentioned above, are completely broken.

    Daggars, they hit an opponent from a recieving end much further than anyone would expect, the range was increased to deal with the bubble that shouldn’t be there in the first place because it causes more issues than is resolved, wihch is no issues. The point of the bubble was to alleviate some of the instant lookdown overheads, but it has not accomplished that, and has actually made combat worse, without doing what it set out to do. SO, daggars got increased range and basically hit at a shortsword range, BUT… they have way more speed, faster combo time, etc… so what does that do? Well… it makes a daggar that hits easily once, and then you can’t even parry in time for combo’d attacks. It’s worse than maa lookdown alt swings parry time, on a combo attack.

    Bearded axe, in conjunction with the lookdown overheads not being fixed, this becomes a nightmare weapon. There are literally attacks that hit so fast with lookdown overheads, that i went into duel servers and even when the guy KNEW the attack was coming to test, still missed the parry. Totally parryable yes, but only really if you know exactly when it’s coming. You can get within facehug range, aim correctly and lookdown crouch overhead for a VERY high percentage unblockable hit… no reaction speed can even touch it. It also seems to go through more parries than any other weapon, it’s totally broken and not balanced at all.

    HWS. Holy water sprinkler with men at arms is a nightmare. Even if you use the fastest secondary for most classes… you are going to get flinched for every attack with HWS. Even if you start windup first, the hws can start an attack afterward and still flinch and do damage with their attack. This is other classes, the knight has it the worst. If you go against HWS maa as knight, you’re pretty much fucked and they can have your lunch money… because it flinches any attack you try to throw, even after dodging. It’s too damn fast.

    Polearms… basic issue with these is lookdown instant overheads. Please just rid the damn collisino bubble, it’s awful and not even fixing the issue it set out to fix… so why keep it in the game? Instead remove hit tracers from the handle of weapons which tons of people have been suggesting.

    All of this mixed with swings that go though people, through parries, desyncs, all the other bugs existing… there is a LOT wrong with the game right now.

    I know TB is going to start working on their new expansion/ new game/ w/e… but PLEASE for the love of chivalry, fix chivalry. It’s broken in SO MANY WAYS… check the bug reports.

    +1

    Pole hammer is also a brutal weapon with look down overheads, sigh.



  • On the bearded axe part, just to let you know:

    Greatsword overhead windup = 0.5

    Bearded axe overhead windup = 0.475

    Just saying.

    Oh and the Greatsword’s range shits all over bearded’s



  • Look down overhead was has been talked about alot months and months ago.

    The best agreed solution was to remove the “back swing” or “wind up” damage part of it.

    If you removed the hit from the handle then what will happen is the first part that connect will connect with the defending person’s back, causing the hit to be unblockable unless you spin 180.

    Or they can be like every other action fighting game and lock attack animations to the movement that when you started it… ever seen one of those spinning jumping zweihanders? lol



  • The point of the bubble was to alleviate some of the instant lookdown overheads, but it has not accomplished that, and has actually made combat worse, without doing what it set out to do.

    The purpose of the bubble was to make face-hugging combat less silly as the closer your enemy was, the more to the sides you had to turn in order to block. It wasn’t done just for instant lookdown overheads. I think that if it helped it was so minor help that goes unnoticed most of the time.

    Other points I agree, more or less.



  • The only real solution for this issues is to rid the bubble, shorten the daggers back and take a level in realism by adding a handle hitbox that deals less damage and letting hits deal less damage at the very beginning and the very end of windup.

    This was suggested countless times but there is no sign it will ever be implemented. In fact the addition of the bubble some patches ago might indicate that Torn Banner doesn’t want strikes to work this way for some reason.

    As for the Bearded Axe: There is a lot of psychology involved. It is fast short and damaging. Most onehanded weapons are faster but nobody complains. But people are afraid of the Bearded Axe because it also deals a lot of damage (and being twohanded means little as long as shields are painfully weak in melee). So they panic making more mistakes than they would otherwise.

    Also there is a stupid tendency to get as close as possible regardless of weapons used. Polearm users facehug in order to get those lookdown overheads in and when they get cut up by some faster weapon that is really build for this distance (Daggers, Bearded Axe, Shortsword, HWS) they cry and call it “op”. People tend to forget about reach, get punished for it and blame attack speed and/or feints.

    Not to mention that sometimes someone is just more skilled. In this case its always convenient to blame it on the “cheap” weapon instead of admitting that the fighter behind it is just stronger than you.



  • Claymore deserves an honorable mention. Even though 2h flinch was slightly reduced, the claymore is still broken. Also, I don’t care if it takes 4 hits to kill a knight, that is broadsword HTK territory (and I haven’t heard a complaint about broadsword damage), and the claymore is longer and I believe faster in most respects. I haven’t checked the spreadsheet for exact values in a while, but it is pretty comparable.

    The biggest problem really is just desync and animation problems, which exist for other weapons, but are exacerbated by the ridiculous speed.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    Sum Up : Daggars, Bearded Axe, HWS and PoleArms are cheat/OP/dull.

    Not totally true but the fact look down overheads are even game-breaking with those weapons is a fact.

    @Linniz:

    Look down overhead was has been talked about alot months and months ago.
    The best agreed solution was to remove the “back swing” or “wind up” damage part of it.

    Finally, a good idea. Since those TBS devs can’t (or don’t want to) fix look down overshit, this would be a great thing !



  • please stop taking this as a… “i don’t know how to deal with the bearded axe” post… it’s not

    just calling it as i sees it



  • AMAZING! After all my posts about the bubble being the most retarded attempt at a fix, people are starting to convert to my way of thinking.

    But I will slightly correct you in that the bubble was not designed to prevent look down overheads, it was increased to prevent the up close face hugging that MMA and others were using to kill while the victims had no idea which direction the attacks were coming from because they were too close.

    You are right in some of the negative effects of an enlarged collusion bubble. Allow me to add to the list.
    1. Fist attacks miss so much, what is the point? The bubble is so large that only a few hits will actually register.
    2. Clearly there are more swing through without hit detection than prior to the patch.
    3. More parrys are also failing
    4. Bubble getting you stuck on more places in the map than before like the roofs of small houses
    5. Freeze bubble. This is where you are pressed against some thing, an object, a wall, what ever by one or more opponents where you cannot move. Yet, visually there is enough room for your player model to escape but the bubble keeps you in place and you cannot move.
    6. Jump bubble, Now if you jump over someone from an elevated position like from the top of a hill on Moore, many times you will now get stuck in the air and they overhead you and kill you because you cannot move.

    The bubble needs to go away, PERIOD. It by no means has helped the game in anyway. Face Hugging was never a problem once you learned to keep your distance. Look down overheads are not really all that big of a problem either once you gain the experience to know how to deal with them. This is where skills in a supposedly skill based game comes from. While I will admit that some weapons look down overhead is too fast, the simple fix is to slow down the animations to the appropriate speeds and not some stupid collusion bubble increase.

    Skills, tactics and experience will over come most of these issues, not radical game mechanic changes that do more to lower the skill level and dumb down the game. Please stop doing this.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    Bearded axe, in conjunction with the lookdown overheads not being fixed, this becomes a nightmare weapon. There are literally attacks that hit so fast with lookdown overheads, that i went into duel servers and even when the guy KNEW the attack was coming to test, still missed the parry. Totally parryable yes, but only really if you know exactly when it’s coming. You can get within facehug range, aim correctly and lookdown crouch overhead for a VERY high percentage unblockable hit… no reaction speed can even touch it. It also seems to go through more parries than any other weapon, it’s totally broken and not balanced at all.

    Lookdown with bearded axes, never knew, I just tried this last night for a few hours and I had 4 people call me a cheater and got kicked twice… 8-) Only played two hours…



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    Daggars

    Daggers are a a lot more dodgy now post patches, I agree. With that said though, they are extremely easy to sidestep and/or backpeddle out of their range. A sneaky drag will also catch the archer out and decimate him.
    If you cannot sidestep the Archer you have to be on your A game to parry them, the Thrusting dagger’s overhead now is really hard to block, it looks like it wraps over your weapon, even if you have a parry up.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Bearded axe

    Bearded Axe is also another weapon that’s extremely easy to evade. As long as you don’t get too close to allow for lookdowns, you should be fine.
    If you do get too close, try to strafe as much as possible, the weapon is so fast that most people can’t aim it correctly.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    HWS.

    This weapon depends on a few things. If you have a bad connection and/or the server is laggy, it’ll be VERY hard to effectively fight against it. Otherwise you just have to be very sharp with your parrying.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Polearms… basic issue with these is lookdown instant overheads. Please just rid the damn collisino bubble, it’s awful and not even fixing the issue it set out to fix… so why keep it in the game? Instead remove hit tracers from the handle of weapons which tons of people have been suggesting.

    All of this mixed with swings that go though people, through parries, desyncs, all the other bugs existing… there is a LOT wrong with the game right now.

    I know TB is going to start working on their new expansion/ new game/ w/e… but PLEASE for the love of chivalry, fix chivalry. It’s broken in SO MANY WAYS… check the bug reports.

    It’s been there since day one and it probably will always remain unfortunately. Though surely it couldn’t be too difficult to remove the tracers from the handle but I am not trained in game design so I have no idea.

    Desyncs have returned with a vengeance for me this latest patch. I’m unsure if servers are still settling in to the new update (shouldn’t be but who knows.)
    I really do hope TB can still churn out some more patches in a reasonable time frame, I will still always prefer it when it was pre super “balance” patch, but I still can have fun now.



  • @NaTe:

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Daggars

    Daggers are a a lot more dodgy now post patches, I agree. With that said though, they are extremely easy to sidestep and/or backpeddle out of their range. A sneaky drag will also catch the archer out and decimate him.
    If you cannot sidestep the Archer you have to be on your A game to parry them, the Thrusting dagger’s overhead now is really hard to block, it looks like it wraps over your weapon, even if you have a parry up.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Bearded axe

    Bearded Axe is also another weapon that’s extremely easy to evade. As long as you don’t get too close to allow for lookdowns, you should be fine.
    If you do get too close, try to strafe as much as possible, the weapon is so fast that most people can’t aim it correctly.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    HWS.

    This weapon depends on a few things. If you have a bad connection and/or the server is laggy, it’ll be VERY hard to effectively fight against it. Otherwise you just have to be very sharp with your parrying.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    Polearms… basic issue with these is lookdown instant overheads. Please just rid the damn collisino bubble, it’s awful and not even fixing the issue it set out to fix… so why keep it in the game? Instead remove hit tracers from the handle of weapons which tons of people have been suggesting.

    All of this mixed with swings that go though people, through parries, desyncs, all the other bugs existing… there is a LOT wrong with the game right now.

    I know TB is going to start working on their new expansion/ new game/ w/e… but PLEASE for the love of chivalry, fix chivalry. It’s broken in SO MANY WAYS… check the bug reports.

    It’s been there since day one and it probably will always remain unfortunately. Though surely it couldn’t be too difficult to remove the tracers from the handle but I am not trained in game design so I have no idea.

    Desyncs have returned with a vengeance for me this latest patch. I’m unsure if servers are still settling in to the new update (shouldn’t be but who knows.)
    I really do hope TB can still churn out some more patches in a reasonable time frame, I will still always prefer it when it was pre super “balance” patch, but I still can have fun now.

    All of this. And lookdown overheads, while kind of retarded, are easy enough to block once you’ve dealt with them a few times. Sounds like you just need to practice more.

    Daggers, especially, are much harder to hit with now. I think they are fine; I haven’t been killed by one since the patch, and I’m having a tougher time killing with them now.



  • I told them the bubble was going to cause more problems than it would solve when they first put up the projected patch notes up for the beta. It has caused all the problems I said it would, and really hasn’t solved any of the problems it was supposed to fix. I don’t know why it is still in the game at this point.



  • The thing I don’t like about daggers is, sometimes a lookdown overhead needs to be parried by looking up, other times by looking down.



  • Also notice that the Bearded Axe swings faster than a 2H sword, and stabs at about the same speed too.



  • @SushiJaguar:

    Also notice that the Bearded Axe swings faster than a 2H sword, and stabs at about the same speed too.

    How is this a problem? It’s a shorter weapon and, being an axe, gives you much more leverage. It’s just too fast.



  • @Tankcommander:

    All of this. And lookdown overheads, while kind of retarded, are easy enough to block once you’ve dealt with them a few times. Sounds like you just need to practice more.

    This is absolutely not true for all weapons. The bearded axe and the bardiche are my least favorite, thought the halberds intense range (even when looking down) brings it pretty close- though it isn’t as fast I find the speed at which you can do it couples with the vanguard’s knockback to make you nearly impossible to approach. The bardiche is still INSTA hit (and I mean INSTA), and it’s a total and complete guess as to whether or not someone is going to do it or not.

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but the only way you’ll convince me that you can learn and practice this is if you and I physically meet in the same server and you are able to parry it multiple times in a row against a bardiche. I know for a fact I personally cannot.



  • @quigleyer:

    @Tankcommander:

    All of this. And lookdown overheads, while kind of retarded, are easy enough to block once you’ve dealt with them a few times. Sounds like you just need to practice more.

    This is absolutely not true for all weapons. The bearded axe and the bardiche are my least favorite, thought the halberds intense range (even when looking down) brings it pretty close- though it isn’t as fast I find the speed at which you can do it couples with the vanguard’s knockback to make you nearly impossible to approach. The bardiche is still INSTA hit (and I mean INSTA), and it’s a total and complete guess as to whether or not someone is going to do it or not.

    I’m not trying to be a jerk, but the only way you’ll convince me that you can learn and practice this is if you and I physically meet in the same server and you are able to parry it multiple times in a row against a bardiche. I know for a fact I personally cannot.

    Quite so, the Bardouche really pisses me off sometimes. Even without people looking down, I can still get insta hit by it sometimes, it’s a strange weapon and always will be as TB refuse to fix it.



  • @NaTe:

    Quite so, the Bardouche really pisses me off sometimes. Even without people looking down, I can still get insta hit by it sometimes, it’s a strange weapon and always will be as TB refuse to fix it.

    You are obviously new here.

    TBS has a VERY hard time making anything else than money.

    ! inb4 this is not correct


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