Panic Parries, Feints and Possible Solutions
Feremuntrus last edited by
I made a suggestion thread with this topic but since it covered many features, it was unfocused and scared readers with its length. I’ll get straight to the point.
I’m an above-average player so my opinion is not automatically right or professional by any means. I have no issue with feints and panic parries personally and use them willingly with no complaints. My judgement is an objectification of these mechanics which I see as nonconstructive to the game. Feinting in particularly is predictable but not predictable enough to prevent abuse - specifically face-hugging to panic parry abuse. Thankfully, my intention is not to denounce or complain but offer possible proposals for improvement/replacement. Jumping to the scrub conclusion or pointing out TBS already has a stand on the issue doesn’t mean much if a majority of the fandom has unilateral opposition on an issue.
At the moment, in high level play where matrixing, dragging, feinting, and alternative blows are common place, I find the feinting feature to be a useful but ultimately, non-engaging mechanic. It’s easy to use, yes, but the point of just face-hugging, feint for panic-parry and attack is ultimately an unenjoyably formality (this is where feints are commonplace – obviously it’s used in other times). It is a disincentive for defensive players who will inevitably fall for the panic-parry lure and suffer. Stamina alterations will not prevent this. I propose mechanics to replace feinting yet offer more flexibility and encourage different play styles to the game so without further ado, the suggestions:
**1. Remove feinting mechanic. See bottom suggestions for substitutes.
2. Have innate parry function for weapons. In other words, weapons can parry incoming hits without hitting the parry button so long as the weapon models touch (before you instantly reject this concept, hear me out).
I believe to replace feinting, you need both an offensive and defensive mechanism that enhances the game – this being the defensive mechanic (and no, it does not remove forced parries - that is perfectly fine as it is). First of all, this change gives further advantage to matrixing and footwork where character positioning can become crucial in time of needs. Instead of just last second feint, panic-parry saves, you are given more control to avoid blows if you have the aptitude – a very difficult skill to master.
Since 1-handed weapons hit so quickly in close range, this will not be an issue in terms of abuse. Just like you aim away from a shield, you can aim away from a weapon. This parry will drain stamina like a regular parry and will not allow the counter riposte option you get through a forced parry. The window of attack after an unforced parry should be enough to allow the attacker to defend themselves.
With regards to slow 2-handers which 1-handers can abuse, a LARGE stamina penalty should be inflicted (they’re the easiest weapons to dodge away from any who). For 2-handers vs 2-hander fights, this penalty will be like a regular parry.
The big complaint with this comes with shields that now have 2 methods of defense. Seeing the endless shieldless mma’s and non-shielded 1-handed sworded knights in duels, I realize this can translate well. There are already complaints, especially among mma’s that bucklers and the other shields are usually pointless save for archers. This suggestion will give an incentive to pick shields yet not make it superior.
To remedy this, If a shielder is holding defend, their weapon will not have this innate parry function. Otherwise, the weapon parries by default (not the shield). Since this still means attackers have it harder since they need to avoid both weapon and shield, any unintentional parries by shielders will result in a tiny attack delay so unlike non-shielders, they can’t instantly retaliate and are open for further punishment.
Lastly, for attackers, any unintentional parry DOES NOT stop the attacker from comboing like a regular parry. This prevents defensive abuse and also makes for some AMAZING looking fights!
If anyone has criticisms of this, ask away. I honestly believe this will work wonderfully.
3. As I said, to replace feinting, you need a new offensive and defensive mechanic. As of now I have a simple 2-step suggestion for an offensive mechanic and will update with better ones if they come to mind.
I believe having an alternative option for the stab wherein a more drawn back, slower, delayed stab would give players the option of tricking defenders without feinting. How is this any different… simple.
This is not a full animation cancelation like feinting thus, this will be a more predictable method of attack. Furthermore, if the 2 stab animations are slightly different, it will help good players find a method to stop those who would simply face hug you. Also note that if suggestion 2 is in place, face hugging abuse would be almost gone. Also don’t forget the usefulness of this new attack with dragging which adds an interesting dynamic.
The second part of this offensive overhaul is an increased role of jump attacks. Even a defensive mechanic like in suggestion 2 will in theory give more leverage to defensive users and promote very ‘turtleish tactics’. At the moment, jump attacks are not common and drain extra stamina and risk you getting stuck in midair for a devastating overhead by your opponent.
Using gravity as the motivator, any middair attacks (thrust, slash, stab) will be 30-50% faster when done in air. For those offensive players that meet very passive, defensive players, this gives them an option similar to feinting in close-proximity situations without the ridiculous animation freezes and endless panic parries as a result of it. Lastly, a possible incentive for those doubting that this will be enough to promote jump attacks, a lower stamina drain for attacks in midair will solve that.**
Feinting in concept is realistic, offers a way to penetrate defensive turtles and more but in execution is lackluster. It’s unrealistic to see a maul feint into a super fast leaning overhead and is near impossible to predict consistently since the parry freeze lasts too long. I considered alterations to the feint mechanic in areas other than stamina but inevitably, the same complaints would emerge as to its abuse. Lastly, consider the innate parry option which could serve as the much better replacement for panic parries.
Dr.Nick last edited by
Feinting in concept is realistic, offers a way to penetrate defensive turtles and more but in execution is lackluster.
Yes this is something that I’ve long said. Feinting is a big part of real life melee fights but it’s also something that can be reacted to. Feinting is a nice idea for Chivalry but the implementation is so horrendous in this game it should have been removed long ago.