Knight Weaponry



  • Good day everyone, before I start on my views let me introduce myself to those who aren’t familiar with me. Currently Rank 48 with about 1k hours most of which I have mained the Knight class since the start of the game. I frequent East Coast and Central United State Servers, and anyone who also frequents such servers most likely know me by now.

    I’d like to discuss my views on the latest patch of Knight nerfs/buffs, specifically the knight’s weapons. There is no need to reiterate how much the knight was nerfed with the removal of combo feint to parry and the chase mechanic, many other threads are discussing that and it’s not what I want to shine light on.

    As I said previously I’ve mained the knight and used literally every weapon it has to offer religiously, Although I do not wish to touch on it’s secondaries and instead focus on the primaries.

    First and foremost, the Grand Mace. I used this weapon prepatch for quite a few hours, I enjoyed the added versatility when it was buffed multiple patches ago. Before this last patch, it’s horizontal attack was quite powerful at 60% or 90 damage, but the favorite feature I found it to have was it’s Pierce/Blunt damage, at a reasonable speed, lacking a strong stab. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems the weapon was slowed down .025 in windup (not the biggest of complaints, but was this really necessary compared to the other weapon buffs to the messer and the maul?) and the Piercing aspect of the weapon was removed. The pierce really did make a difference when fighting vanguards as it is their biggest weakness, it was quite versatile, it never one shot man at arms or archers in the torso but reliably two hit every class. Also they reverted the slash to doing 85 damage yet again compared to 90, so it sits at 53% LMB damage.

    Compare that to the current Buffed Messer, the Messer now has faster windups than the grand mace, a longer release and much more LMB damage, currently at 63%. I’m not saying the Messer is overpowered, but it IS quite a solid weapon when you put it on paper. The messer reliably one shots man at arms and archers in the torso, and two hits everything else in the torso+.

    The Sword of War. I mained this weapon for the majority of my hours due to its sheer versatility by being able to reliably two shot the lighter classes and 3 shot the knight. It wasn’t the easiest weapon and I never found it to be overpowered in any way, it’s range isnt the best compared to other weapons. with the damage nerfs and combo speed nerfed it seems the Sword of War is just a longer, worse version of the broadsword and norse sword. I don’t understand why it was nerfed so hard in this patch compared to the buffs of the other weapons (Messer/Maul)

    The Longsword. Once again I mained this weapon for a while for it’s overall ability to group fight. It had a solid combo’s and damage but wasn’t the best for man at arms and even other knights. Once again I fail to understand why this was nerfed compared to the buffs of the messer.

    The Warhammer. A once viable weapon is now more useless than a Double axe. Originally the warhammer and kite was a beautifully skilled setup that combined defensive and offensive fighting. This poor thing got so much hate because it had one of the best damage per second in the game when it was in it’s prime. Reliably 2 shot every class including knight at the cost of horrid range and slowish windups. The bubble, chase mechanic removal, and shield stamina changes have completely ruined this weapon. This once beautiful weapon needs work, it could use a serious range boost to approximately 40 and maybe it could see the light of day on the battlefield once more.

    The Double Axe. This weapon has always seemed to be the black sheep of the bunch. ALWAYS appeal to brand new players due to its masculine model and berserker like feel. Sadly it’s always been the worst knight weapon arguably, until now. The damage and windup buffs are actually quite outstanding, and I’ve seen some decent players do extremely well with this weapon, This weapon excels in hit trading, and can easily 1 shot man at arms and archers. Nothing special about it’s range and combo speeds unfortunately.

    The Maul. One of the most seen weapons in the battlefield today, one shots every class to the head, requires torso shot+ to one shot man at arms and archers. Not the best group fighting weapon but an absolute powerhouse in the right hands. This weapon is majorly based on footwork if not blatantly hit trading on the battlefield. The windup buff may be a bit over the top now, and it is much more difficult to flinch a maul user. I find myself going in for a stab and end up being one hit with a hit trade. I’m not sure if it needs a change or not. Every level 50+ Knight I’ve seen and fought are always using the maul or the Messer.

    This is just my two cents and would love to hear how others see things. My Main question is, why such strong buffs to weapons to make them on par with prepatch weapons only to nerf the weapons they were trying to put the weaker ones on par with?



  • I always thought that grandmace was a little too good for it’s speed. Honestly it still takes as many hits to kill any class with it even now so even if they gave it back the pierce it would make no difference.
    Sow was a little op. It was considered the best two handed weapon and everyone used it that wanted a best set up. You can still kill with it as fast just need to have one head shot, which I think is good. You do need sometimes to hit knight 4 times with gs to kill them, even now. When knight could two shot other 3 classes easily, still not so hard now.
    Warhammer and shield was never skillful. It was like one of the cheapest things in the game. Nearly everyone hated warhammer for how easy it was. The range on it never bothered me and it got around blocks easy too. It was way too strong, now it’s ok.
    Agree on Double axe, they made it good now.
    Maul is too good now.



  • @Noobstomper:

    First and foremost, the Grand Mace.

    The GM’s slight nerfs were to add a greater difference between it and the Maul. Many people were complaining there was no point using the Maul as the GM had better windups, same HTK etc.
    I also don’t know why you’re comparing the GM to the Messer, the GM is more purely an anti Knight weapon, whereas the Messer is a little more versatile. Yes I do miss the Pierce bonus but I believe the GM is alright-ish where it is now.

    @Noobstomper:

    Compare that to the current Buffed Messer, the Messer now has faster windups than the grand mace, a longer release and much more LMB damage, currently at 63%. I’m not saying the Messer is overpowered, but it IS quite a solid weapon when you put it on paper. The messer reliably one shots man at arms and archers in the torso, and two hits everything else in the torso+.

    The Messer is more versatile at fighting all classes yes, but it’s in a completely different weapon segment.
    To correct you, it does NOT 1 hit MAA or Archer in the torso, it will do 99% to the torso, enough for a kick death.
    It DOES 1 hit Archers with a slash to the head or and overhead to the head.
    It DOES 1hit MAA with a slash to the head, but not with any other attack.
    I main the Messer, it’s a beautiful weapon, super versatile and great for almost everything.

    @Noobstomper:

    The Sword of War.

    The overhead to stab combo was a tiny bit OP, especially with it constantly hitting in windup, but weirdly enough they focused so hard on fixing that, then made the Claymore 10 times worse than the SOW ever was.
    It honestly didn’t need as much nerfing as it received, just the stabs needed to be fixed a little bit. Either way, it’s still okayish to use.
    Again, Maul is a different weapon segment and purely anti Knight.
    The Messer only received a tiny combo speed buff and and change from swingblunt to swing, making it possibly less effective to Knights anyway.

    @Noobstomper:

    The Longsword.

    The Longsword didn’t really need the changes it received, I agree. With that said though, damage was barely touched and combo/windup times were only changed by .025, not that big of a difference considering release was made .05 faster, which balances it out.
    The Longsword isn’t for a specific class counter, it’s just a good all rounder for any class.

    @Noobstomper:

    The Warhammer.

    Eh Warhammer has always been a bit strange, now it’s just terrible. Feels unnaturally slow for a one hander. The damage is it’s only upside, otherwise it’s just not a good weapon anymore.
    I personally couldn’t care less what happens to this weapon, I’ve never used it more than say 5 or so hours, never enjoyed it.

    @Noobstomper:

    The Double Axe.

    It also appeals to new players as it’s the first and only axe they can choose til they unlock more :P
    I’ve been meaning to main this for a whole night of matches and see how I go, I’ve recently had a few matches with it and played pretty good, but it’s pretty inconsistent in the way it swings, very easy to get side stepped.

    @Noobstomper:

    The Maul.

    The Maul is great where it is right now, it’s finally the fear inducing weapon it was always meant to be.
    I don’t know what patch notes you’re reading, only it’s slash had a windup buff of .05 and a recovery buff of .1, the overhead is untouched. The damage on the overhead was boosted quite a bit, and with the Knights blunt resistance being reduced slightly, that’s what made it be able to 1 hit them to the head.
    It actually is a fantastic group fighting weapon if you can time your footwork correctly, and accelerate the swings at the right time, it’s VERY difficult to get it right though.
    You’re getting hit traded cause he is probably winding up before you and/or accelerating his attacks, therefore causing hit trades. I personally find it quite easy to flinch Maul users, just time your strikes better.
    In Aus, rarely anyone uses the Maul from what I see. If they do, they’re not that good with it except for a select few.

    @Noobstomper:

    This is just my two cents and would love to hear how others see things. My Main question is, why such strong buffs to weapons to make them on par with prepatch weapons only to nerf the weapons they were trying to put the weaker ones on par with?

    Valid opinions on everything Knight wise. What happened with the patch is I think TB wanted to differentiate things, make their customers use a more variety of weapons rather than clustering to one single weapon (i.e Longsword) which was silly IMO, but some of the changes have been welcomed.

    Unfortunately with all the new timer changes and lockouts etc, the Knights were nerfed pretty heavily in some situations, but it will hopefully get better gradually.



  • @Sciffer:

    I always thought that grandmace was a little too good for it’s speed. Honestly it still takes as many hits to kill any class with it even now so even if they gave it back the pierce it would make no difference.

    The Grand mace does have below average reach, although the in game stats say otherwise, many, many in game stats are off. The point is the grabd mace is a very powerful knight counter, being a blunt, is it not? No, it performs it’s role very well, however, the below average reach make it very easily countered by vanguards and MaA.

    Warhammer and shield was never skillful. It was like one of the cheapest things in the game. Nearly everyone hated warhammer for how easy it was. The range on it never bothered me and it got around blocks easy too. It was way too strong, now it’s ok.

    The warhammer is a pretty odd weapon imo. It’s very easy to pick up and use because of it’s DPS but ,similarly, to the grand mace it’s miniscule reach balances it in the sense that it’s pretty difficult to target switch and it’s countered hard by vanguards and MaA, that definately runs in the family of blunts. Also, the warhammer is very LMB friendly.

    Agree on Double axe, they made it good now.

    I do too. It’s slower and shorter than the grand mace and poleaxe, however, it makes up for it with much better damage against light classes.

    Maul is too good now.

    Again, similarly with the grand mace and warhammer, it’s incredibly slow and short makes it countered hard by vanguards and light classes, whilst being the most effective knight counter. I see very often and even, evidently, the blunts are picked on quite a lot due to shortsightedness, however, I do not expect you to admit to shortsightedness. No one does. Just bare in mind that when you determine balance you must look at it’s performance against all classes or you shan’t understand how all weapons are balanced.



  • @Noobstomper:

    The Sword of War. I mained this weapon for the majority of my hours due to its sheer versatility by being able to reliably two shot the lighter classes and 3 shot the knight. It wasn’t the easiest weapon and I never found it to be overpowered in any way, it’s range isnt the best compared to other weapons. with the damage nerfs and combo speed nerfed it seems the Sword of War is just a longer, worse version of the broadsword and norse sword. I don’t understand why it was nerfed so hard in this patch compared to the buffs of the other weapons (Messer/Maul)

    (First post on here, so hey!)
    But I have to agree with you here immeasurably. The Sword of War was not unfair, it was not too quick, too powerful and all its combos felt very fluid and balanced (Combo feint to parry was all very open to debate) But overall the weapon felt like it required a swordsman with some aptitude to actually use it well as opposed to wild LMB spamming. I really can’t fathom TB choosing to nerf THIS of all things.



  • I think Slygoat did too much in one patch. Instead of removing combo feint to parry, forward chase mechanic and adding in recovery parry, he should’ve just did the weapon balance patch. Or, alternatively, he should’ve did the weapon balance patch after changing so many game mechanics. It was too much at once and it really screwed over a lot of weapons. The maul probably wouldn’t need any buffs considering you can parry in recovery now, same with the messer. While I love the new double axe, I would’ve liked to experience this patch with the old longsword, or play the old game with the new longsword to see how it holds up.

    As far as grand mace goes, I think the grand mace is in a fine spot now (I thought it was fine before its buffs, and after its buffs it was a little OP) but it’s not the grand mace’s fault that it sucks now, it’s the game mechanic changes. Same with the war hammer. The game has fundamentally changed so that those weapons have a harder time adapting, not because the weapon stats themselves.



  • I agree with NaTe, Jstorm, and SOC.

    The only area I differ in is that I now think Messer is a tad too strong. I always liked it best of the three swords, but it seems extraordinarily strong for its range and speed. I feel like it demolishes everything while outranging 1 hands and being fast enough to beat out polearms. The numbers may disagree, but regardless playing Messer Knight now seems absurdly easy.

    Also, I hate the new mechanics.



  • I agree that the mechanics now hinder the knight and the knight needs something more than just weapon changes. I do understand the grand mace is Anti-Knight and a completely different branch compared to the messer, but the messer can also be seen as anti knight due to the fact it still two hits knights just with its LMB. I still believe the grand mace should rightfully do piercing damage as well to make it more versatile and NOT just anti-knight, on paper the grand mace is a two handed version of the morning star. the morning star still does pierce/blunt and I just never understood why they took the piercing away from the grand mace.



  • @Noobstomper:

    I agree that the mechanics now hinder the knight and the knight needs something more than just weapon changes. I do understand the grand mace is Anti-Knight and a completely different branch compared to the messer, but the messer can also be seen as anti knight due to the fact it still two hits knights just with its LMB. I still believe the grand mace should rightfully do piercing damage as well to make it more versatile and NOT just anti-knight, on paper the grand mace is a two handed version of the morning star. the morning star still does pierce/blunt and I just never understood why they took the piercing away from the grand mace.

    I’ve never been able to two hit a Knight with just LMB slashes with the Messer, two overheads though, yes.

    I do agree with you, the Grand Mace has big spikes that would pierce quite easily, not as defined as the Morning stars but still pretty menacing.

    To counter MAA, Knight should just get the Halberd :D



  • @NaTe:

    @Noobstomper:

    I agree that the mechanics now hinder the knight and the knight needs something more than just weapon changes. I do understand the grand mace is Anti-Knight and a completely different branch compared to the messer, but the messer can also be seen as anti knight due to the fact it still two hits knights just with its LMB. I still believe the grand mace should rightfully do piercing damage as well to make it more versatile and NOT just anti-knight, on paper the grand mace is a two handed version of the morning star. the morning star still does pierce/blunt and I just never understood why they took the piercing away from the grand mace.

    I’ve never been able to two hit a Knight with just LMB slashes with the Messer, two overheads though, yes.

    I do agree with you, the Grand Mace has big spikes that would pierce quite easily, not as defined as the Morning stars but still pretty menacing.

    To counter MAA, Knight should just get the Halberd :D

    I completely disagree with giving the gmace pierceblunt damage. This would make it so the ONLY wayyou can two shot a knight without head hits is a double OH. OH-slash won’t kill without a head hit and double slash will require a double headshot against knights. Only if you buff the damage or else what you get is a poleaxe with a worse stab. I think the grand mace is perfectly fine being a pure knight counter. If you want to have a better time against vanguards use a sword or poleaxe.



  • i wouldn’t want knights to be super OP or anything, but they don’t really feel much like a tank class to me.

    Vanguards - range, speed, charge ability

    Archer - Ranged class, can shoot you from afar, fast 2ndarys

    Maa - dodge ablility, speed

    Knight - Armor… (doesn’t feel like strong armor though does it?)

    vanguards almost took the knights place completely… but not quite.



  • My impression of the double axe is that it’s a joke weapon.
    It’s obviously not a practical design and it was never actually used in the medieval period, the way it used to handle illustrated that pretty damn well. It should be deliberately made underpowered again to make it a sort of humiliation kill weapon.



  • @soamd:

    My impression of the double axe is that it’s a joke weapon.
    It’s obviously not a practical design and it was never actually used in the medieval period, the way it used to handle illustrated that pretty damn well. It should be deliberately made underpowered again to make it a sort of humiliation kill weapon.

    This game has nothing to do with realism. It would be almost entirely different if we were. We’re going fira thing called weapon balance.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    i wouldn’t want knights to be super OP or anything, but they don’t really feel much like a tank class to me.

    Vanguards - range, speed, charge ability

    Archer - Ranged class, can shoot you from afar, fast 2ndarys

    Maa - dodge ablility, speed

    Knight - Armor… (doesn’t feel like strong armor though does it?)

    Knights have access to the best shields, but it’s a fairly minor point.



  • @soamd:

    My impression of the double axe is that it’s a joke weapon.
    It’s obviously not a practical design and it was never actually used in the medieval period, the way it used to handle illustrated that pretty damn well. It should be deliberately made underpowered again to make it a sort of humiliation kill weapon.

    Pretty much, It’s kind of a shock weapon, like the maul.

    It’s overhead can be very deceptive though, the wind-up time is long, but the execution can match the speed of a lot of weapons.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    i wouldn’t want knights to be super OP or anything, but they don’t really feel much like a tank class to me.

    Vanguards - range, speed, charge ability

    Archer - Ranged class, can shoot you from afar, fast 2ndarys

    Maa - dodge ablility, speed

    Knight - Armor… (doesn’t feel like strong armor though does it?)

    vanguards almost took the knights place completely… but not quite.

    You forgot to mention vanguards have power. Multiple vanguard weapons two hit the knight, and in most cases, vanguard weapons are MUCH better than knight weapons. Greatsword > Longsword, Claymore > sword of war, Zwei > Messer, The Brokenstock is one of the most annoying things to fight as a knight, due to its ridiculous power speed and range. The polehammer just completely depletes a knights health with its lightning fast overhead and amazing range.



  • They screwed up the design of knights from top to bottom. They should have been strictly a 1H+shield tank class with shields that turned them into defensive fortresses. Right now, they’re gimped vanguards with the option to further gimp themselves by using a shield.



  • The polehammer just completely depletes a knights health with its lightning fast overhead and amazing range.

    LMAO what did I just read? The polehammer is an extremely slow weapon and the polehammer’s OH is the shortest attack the vanguard has available to him. The reach is comparable, if not shorter than a LS.



  • @Noobstomper:

    You forgot to mention vanguards have power. Multiple vanguard weapons two hit the knight, and in most cases, vanguard weapons are MUCH better than knight weapons. Greatsword > Longsword, Claymore > sword of war, Zwei > Messer, The Brokenstock is one of the most annoying things to fight as a knight, due to its ridiculous power speed and range. The polehammer just completely depletes a knights health with its lightning fast overhead and amazing range.

    So you’re saying the Knight really has no advantages depending on whether or not your opponent is using a decent weapon? I can see that.

    The polehammer is an anti-knight weapon (a decent weapon in general) and should be feared, I get what you’re saying. The range on the OH isn’t that amazing though.



  • @Jstorm:

    The polehammer just completely depletes a knights health with its lightning fast overhead and amazing range.

    LMAO what did I just read? The polehammer is an extremely slow weapon and the polehammer’s OH is the shortest attack the vanguard has available to him. The reach is comparable, if not shorter than a LS.

    polehammer is amazing vs. knight dude, have you used it!? lol

    the lookdown overheads hit so instant man, it’s super fast. you just have to stare at the ground playing with it and alternate pokes and overheads and just win win


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