Magic arrows.



  • Despawning arrows and arrows passing through people should really be fixed.



  • yeah happens sometimes… (more often when shooting at close range)



  • Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.



  • May we know what these other priorities were?



  • I would like to see a fix to arrows coming out of the bow and hitting you when an archer is not even facing you. I cannot tell you how many times I am approaching an archer on his right flank only to see an arrow make a right turn out of the bow and hit me….



  • @fvonb:

    May we know what these other priorities were?

    ! Flinch not applying during weapon swap (will apply AFTER you swap weapons).
    ! Counterattacks made off of feinted alt-swings transitioning into alt-swings.
    ! Kick stun applying during shield drop rather than only active block.
    ! Release flinch desyncing near the end of release.
    ! Shields being able to exploit tap block to bypass deflected/parried state.
    ! Projectile stickies not showing.
    ! Pole Hammer sprint attack not moving you forward.
    ! Several ballistae bugs.
    ! Assists not being awarded properly.
    ! Alt slash tracers for fist firing upwards.
    ! Projectile speed being influenced by framerate.
    ! Alt swing infinite combo.
    ! King instantly respawning after death.
    ! Random class assigning players to classes over the max amout on class-limited servers.
    ! Vertical turn rate being uncapped in a windup or combo.
    ! Tapping shield block when out of stamina not applying special daze properly.
    ! Sling sometimes firing at minimum windup when the attack button is being held down.
    ! Javelin and flail shield punch attacks using weird tracers.
    ! Sprint causing you to slide forward during dodge and reload animations.
    ! Light crossbow becoming unable to fire.
    ! Rank limits not working for rank 0.
    ! Removed some potentially abusive console commands.
    ! Third person flinch animations playing on friendly fire despite friendly fire not causing flinch.
    ! Respawn timer forcing you to the next wave if your spawn timer expires while you’re in class or weapon select.
    ! Special daze when an out of stamina player blocks a projectile.
    ! Server request allowing hackers to spawn as a king.
    ! Dodging while dazed or special dazed.
    ! Release flinch working on allies.
    ! Players being able to bypass forced respawns by entering a siege weapon.
    ! “Hiding spot” in the lake on Moor.
    ! Infinite objective points from burning a certain house repeatedly on Stoneshill.
    ! Players floating into the air if they’re kicked while jumping.
    ! Possible desync when trying to combo with insufficient stamina.
    ! Possible desync with counterattacks (“fake counterattacks”).
    ! Shield hitbox for inactive shields counting as headshot damage for melee weapons.
    ! Sprint speed not resetting when flinched with toggle sprint active.
    ! Server filters sometimes requiring a reset to change.
    ! HTML tags in player names.
    ! Vanguards being unable to throw torches with sprint attack readied.
    ! Lead balls not being able to fire after refilling ammo.
    ! Crouch-jumping getting you stuck in crouch.
    ! Queued shield blocks not having a capped turn rate.

    etc.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.

    Yea I remember all those times I played other games where projectiles didn’t work 10% of the time.

    Wait no I don’t, your answer is bad and you should feel bad.



  • @?B:

    @SlyGoat:

    Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.

    Yea I remember all those times I played other games where projectiles didn’t work 10% of the time.

    Wait no I don’t, your answer is bad and you should feel bad.

    I’ve also never experienced this in any other online game, either.

    Also I’m not sure if it’s the same issue or a separate one, but it sounds similar. The passthrough swings- is that a common client/server sync issue that can’t be fixed? Because I actually remember when it was introduced into this game (the patch with fixed ghost/phantom swings and the player bubble) and it was not there before-hand.



  • @?B:

    @SlyGoat:

    Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.

    Yea I remember all those times I played other games where projectiles didn’t work 10% of the time.

    Wait no I don’t, your answer is bad and you should feel bad.

    I take it you haven’t played many games, then.

    This happens even with hitscan weapons, where client side decals/hit confirmations will often show when the server didn’t register a hit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92URs70527I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXssPP_Zgbo

    There are also much rarer cases where hit detection outright fails, such as this footage taken from a server-captured replay.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZoKQYT0MA

    Melee weapons in Chivalry are hitscan: they essentially shoot a whole lot of “bullets” that only travel a short distance before disappearing - but UE does not use lag compensation, it uses very sophisticated prediction, so this isn’t much of a problem for melee weapons as far as seeing attacks register a hit without dealing damage. This is one of the reasons UE was chosen as Chivalry’s engine, because it just works much better for melee than the previous Source engine - if you want to see bad melee hit detection in action feel free to download Age of Chivalry and give it a shot. Generally speaking, lag compensation for hitscan weapons is designed with the assumption that hitscan weapons have infinite range, so they handle short reaching melee weapons terribly.

    Projectiles on the other hand, are almost never lag compensated even in games that don’t rely on prediction like UE, because the projectiles generally exist server side - which is why you’ll often see a slight delay between firing a shot and your projectile appearing. Games generally have much wider hitboxes for non-hitscan projectiles to make up for this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-YFFnruDs

    So the hitboxes are server side, the projectiles are server side, but the model you see is client side. Despite the larger hitbox, it can still fail for cases of high combined ping, subpar servers, packet loss, any little thing that goes wrong and causes the target’s model to appear in a different position client side than the target’s hitbox exists server side.

    This is the reason you will sometimes, very rarely, see projectiles fly through people without registering a hit. You can also hit people your projectile didn’t actually touch (because the model was not synced to the hitbox), but that’s something people choose to forget; we tend to remember negative experiences far more clearly.

    In short, this is not a Chivalry specific bug. This is not an engine specific bug. This isn’t even a bug. This is just an imperfection in client/server synchronization that has yet to be solved.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @fvonb:

    May we know what these other priorities were?

    ! Flinch not applying during weapon swap (will apply AFTER you swap weapons).
    ! Counterattacks made off of feinted alt-swings transitioning into alt-swings.
    ! Kick stun applying during shield drop rather than only active block.
    ! Release flinch desyncing near the end of release.
    ! Shields being able to exploit tap block to bypass deflected/parried state.
    ! Projectile stickies not showing.
    ! Pole Hammer sprint attack not moving you forward.
    ! Several ballistae bugs.
    ! Assists not being awarded properly.
    ! Alt slash tracers for fist firing upwards.
    ! Projectile speed being influenced by framerate.
    ! Alt swing infinite combo.
    ! King instantly respawning after death.
    ! Random class assigning players to classes over the max amout on class-limited servers.
    ! Vertical turn rate being uncapped in a windup or combo.
    ! Tapping shield block when out of stamina not applying special daze properly.
    ! Sling sometimes firing at minimum windup when the attack button is being held down.
    ! Javelin and flail shield punch attacks using weird tracers.
    ! Sprint causing you to slide forward during dodge and reload animations.
    ! Light crossbow becoming unable to fire.
    ! Rank limits not working for rank 0.
    ! Removed some potentially abusive console commands.
    ! Third person flinch animations playing on friendly fire despite friendly fire not causing flinch.
    ! Respawn timer forcing you to the next wave if your spawn timer expires while you’re in class or weapon select.
    ! Special daze when an out of stamina player blocks a projectile.
    ! Server request allowing hackers to spawn as a king.
    ! Dodging while dazed or special dazed.
    ! Release flinch working on allies.
    ! Players being able to bypass forced respawns by entering a siege weapon.
    ! “Hiding spot” in the lake on Moor.
    ! Infinite objective points from burning a certain house repeatedly on Stoneshill.
    ! Players floating into the air if they’re kicked while jumping.
    ! Possible desync when trying to combo with insufficient stamina.
    ! Possible desync with counterattacks (“fake counterattacks”).
    ! Shield hitbox for inactive shields counting as headshot damage for melee weapons.
    ! Sprint speed not resetting when flinched with toggle sprint active.
    ! Server filters sometimes requiring a reset to change.
    ! HTML tags in player names.
    ! Vanguards being unable to throw torches with sprint attack readied.
    ! Lead balls not being able to fire after refilling ammo.
    ! Crouch-jumping getting you stuck in crouch.
    ! Queued shield blocks not having a capped turn rate.

    etc.

    Oh god O_O
    Good thing stuff is getting fixed! Thank you Mr.Goat, and all the programmers etc!



  • @SlyGoat:

    @?B:

    @SlyGoat:

    Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.

    Yea I remember all those times I played other games where projectiles didn’t work 10% of the time.

    Wait no I don’t, your answer is bad and you should feel bad.

    I take it you haven’t played many games, then.

    This happens even with hitscan weapons, where client side decals/hit confirmations will often show when the server didn’t register a hit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92URs70527I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXssPP_Zgbo

    There are also much rarer cases where hit detection outright fails, such as this footage taken from a server-captured replay.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZoKQYT0MA

    Melee weapons in Chivalry are hitscan: they essentially shoot a whole lot of “bullets” that only travel a short distance before disappearing - but UE does not use lag compensation, it uses very sophisticated prediction, so this isn’t much of a problem for melee weapons as far as seeing attacks register a hit without dealing damage. This is one of the reasons UE was chosen as Chivalry’s engine, because it just works much better for melee than the previous Source engine - if you want to see bad melee hit detection in action feel free to download Age of Chivalry and give it a shot. Generally speaking, lag compensation for hitscan weapons is designed with the assumption that hitscan weapons have infinite range, so they handle short reaching melee weapons terribly.

    Projectiles on the other hand, are almost never lag compensated even in games that don’t rely on prediction like UE, because the projectiles generally exist server side - which is why you’ll often see a slight delay between firing a shot and your projectile appearing. Games generally have much wider hitboxes for non-hitscan projectiles to make up for this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-YFFnruDs

    So the hitboxes are server side, the projectiles are server side, but the model you see is client side. Despite the larger hitbox, it can still fail for cases of high combined ping, subpar servers, packet loss, any little thing that goes wrong and causes the target’s model to appear in a different position client side than the target’s hitbox exists server side.

    This is the reason you will sometimes, very rarely, see projectiles fly through people without registering a hit. You can also hit people your projectile didn’t actually touch (because the model was not synced to the hitbox), but that’s something people choose to forget; we tend to remember negative experiences far more clearly.

    In short, this is not a Chivalry specific bug. This is not an engine specific bug. This isn’t even a bug. This is just an imperfection in client/server synchronization that has yet to be solved.

    'Goat-

    So that’s what the pass-through swings are about too, right? Honestly I don’t recall seeing them earlier than the specific point I mentioned, but it might just be that it got worse.

    Thanks for letting us know, nice to have an understanding. I guess I don’t play many Source games, now that you mention it.



  • @quigleyer:

    'Goat-

    So that’s what the pass-through swings are about too, right? Honestly I don’t recall seeing them earlier than the specific point I mentioned, but it might just be that it got worse.

    Thanks for letting us know, nice to have an understanding. I guess I don’t play many Source games, now that you mention it.

    Of my example videos only TF2 uses the Source engine. The other two games use different versions of the Frostbite engine, and Chivalry uses the Unreal engine. It’s a problem that spans every game engine currently available. I would actually say the Unreal engine has less weirdness than most due to its lack of lag compensation.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @?B:

    @SlyGoat:

    This is the reason you will sometimes, very rarely, see projectiles fly through people without registering a hit. You can also hit people your projectile didn’t actually touch (because the model was not synced to the hitbox), but that’s something people choose to forget; we tend to remember negative experiences far more clearly.

    In short, this is not a Chivalry specific bug. This is not an engine specific bug. This isn’t even a bug. This is just an imperfection in client/server synchronization that has yet to be solved.

    rarely
    rarely
    rarely

    Haha, yea losing projectiles ~10% of the time is super rare, also headshots not registering maybe ~5% is super rare, and having arrows with more chance to ghost the closer a player is, and often on lunging vanguards is ultra super rare.

    It’s reasons like this that people are leaving this cesspit of bubble, projectile, super jump lameness.



  • @?B:

    Haha, yea losing projectiles ~10% of the time is super rare, also headshots not registering maybe ~5% is super rare, and having arrows with more chance to ghost the closer a player is, and often on lunging vanguards is ultra super rare.

    It’s reasons like this that people are leaving this cesspit of bubble, projectile, super jump lameness.

    It’s far from 10%.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @?B:

    Haha, yea losing projectiles ~10% of the time is super rare, also headshots not registering maybe ~5% is super rare, and having arrows with more chance to ghost the closer a player is, and often on lunging vanguards is ultra super rare.

    It’s reasons like this that people are leaving this cesspit of bubble, projectile, super jump lameness.

    It’s far from 10%.

    Maybe my numbers are stretching the truth, but when you play archer for many hours it starts to feel like this.



  • Play on servers that aren’t shit.



  • @lemonater47:

    Play on servers that aren’t shit.

    Calling official servers shit isn’t very nice!



  • @SlyGoat:

    @?B:

    @SlyGoat:

    Arrows disappearing on death is something we’re finally getting around to fixing now that other priorities have been dealt with. Arrows passing through people is a client/server sync issue; every game experiences it and it’s not really something we can do anything about.

    Yea I remember all those times I played other games where projectiles didn’t work 10% of the time.

    Wait no I don’t, your answer is bad and you should feel bad.

    I take it you haven’t played many games, then.

    This happens even with hitscan weapons, where client side decals/hit confirmations will often show when the server didn’t register a hit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92URs70527I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXssPP_Zgbo

    There are also much rarer cases where hit detection outright fails, such as this footage taken from a server-captured replay.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXZoKQYT0MA

    Melee weapons in Chivalry are hitscan: they essentially shoot a whole lot of “bullets” that only travel a short distance before disappearing - but UE does not use lag compensation, it uses very sophisticated prediction, so this isn’t much of a problem for melee weapons as far as seeing attacks register a hit without dealing damage. This is one of the reasons UE was chosen as Chivalry’s engine, because it just works much better for melee than the previous Source engine - if you want to see bad melee hit detection in action feel free to download Age of Chivalry and give it a shot. Generally speaking, lag compensation for hitscan weapons is designed with the assumption that hitscan weapons have infinite range, so they handle short reaching melee weapons terribly.

    Projectiles on the other hand, are almost never lag compensated even in games that don’t rely on prediction like UE, because the projectiles generally exist server side - which is why you’ll often see a slight delay between firing a shot and your projectile appearing. Games generally have much wider hitboxes for non-hitscan projectiles to make up for this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-YFFnruDs

    So the hitboxes are server side, the projectiles are server side, but the model you see is client side. Despite the larger hitbox, it can still fail for cases of high combined ping, subpar servers, packet loss, any little thing that goes wrong and causes the target’s model to appear in a different position client side than the target’s hitbox exists server side.

    This is the reason you will sometimes, very rarely, see projectiles fly through people without registering a hit. You can also hit people your projectile didn’t actually touch (because the model was not synced to the hitbox), but that’s something people choose to forget; we tend to remember negative experiences far more clearly.

    In short, this is not a Chivalry specific bug. This is not an engine specific bug. This isn’t even a bug. This is just an imperfection in client/server synchronization that has yet to be solved.

    “but UE does not use lag compensation, it uses very sophisticated prediction”

    This simply isn’t true, UE uses clientside hitreg with very basic prediction to make what clients see match up better. As far as I know it’s nothing more than pos = vt + 1/2at^2. UE3’s poor prediction is very clear in the game Tribes Ascend since it has people going 300+ kph with jetpacks. Whenever someone activates their jetpacks while falling they’ll teleport due to prediction error since there’s no form of smoothing.

    “Weirdness” also isn’t attributable to lag compensation alone, it causes weirdness if there are bad networking conditions that cause the server to be unable to guess what the client sees.


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