[KNIGHT] How to counter a MAA w/ shield?



  • I’m like level 25 in game, slowly getting better, but one scenario that kept tripping me up in TO matches earlier today were the MAAs, specifically the ones with the shields. I like to play as a knight so I can tank damage and work better to push/defend objectives, but the shield MAAs really mess me up. On top of being fast, I can’t really force them to block “early” so to speak. I just can’t seem to get hits in.

    What’s the best thing to do? Switch to a secondary and shield? Try to kick and hope I can get a stab in before they interrupt my windup? I can’t take too much time on them because their teammates often come to help…the same couldn’t always be said for me :p

    Thanks!



  • Aim at them, hold down F, push W, jump. Then just overhead/swing combo and you’re golden about 70-80% of the time. For the last 20%, that’s what your other fighting skills are for.

    Oh and if they see the kick coming and drop their guard, just take advantage of the very brief stun to sprint around one of their sides and use a nice big 2h weapon swing to get around the shield. Alternatively, just wail on them until they run out of stamina, if they like to hide behind their little planks.



  • Practice stabbing around shields



  • Some people don’t expect jump stabs, you could try that. Or facehug them and slash, sometimes you can get around the shield. Or face hug them, attack, but feint the attack, then hold F to stun them and kill them. There’s a bug right now so they can dodge in stun but not all maas know that.



  • The knights choices vs MAA are these.

    Take out your shield, force them to attack. Push toward them and hope they think youre attacking.
    They will dodge.

    Repeat this until you hear gasping.
    –------------

    Take out a draggable weapon, 2h swords work great here.

    if theyre the dodge+attack type, you can drag your swing into them as they dodge to either hit trade or just hit.

    z3 x3. MAA vs Knight in 1v1 is completely up to the MAA’s greediness.



  • As some have pointed out you have 3 choices.

    1. Rush the MAA and never let go, just facehug and make it a stamina battle. Giving MAA´s time to dance around you will make it a sure loss.

    2. Drag and hope the MAA fails a risky sidestep so you can hit him. This works especially well with spears since you can trace it a lot, for knights a messer is both fast and can 1 shot MAA for one mistake.

    3. Give up and run away. If the MAA is just as good as you are, or better. Then this is probably your only option.



  • #1 rule when fighting MAA’s as a knight:

    Never, ever, ever riposte.
    Bad MAA’s are too far into the habit of attack>backdodge>attack to prepare for it, and you can easily trade a broadsword overhead. Watch your stam as well- shield MAA’s tend to dodge more than they should, and will run out very quickly; just be patient and know that they are basically commiting suicide by dodge spamming. Expect every MAA to be stupid (because they usually are). ;)



  • @Stinker:

    #1 rule when fighting MAA’s as a knight:

    Never, ever, ever riposte.

    That seems a bit extreme…



  • Press F10.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Stinker:

    #1 rule when fighting MAA’s as a knight:

    Never, ever, ever riposte.

    That seems a bit extreme…

    The way I worded that may be a bit exreme, but that’s generally how I deal with those kinds of MAAs; newer MAAs or highly skilled ones are different, but I’m addressing the ones who do that annoying stuff because most people fall for it. Not like I’m the authority on anything, but in my experience, that is an okay tactic to pass on. Identifying these special cases is another skill entirely than what I’m trying to get across, and though it might have been a good thing to add to my post, I’m trying to stay on the most concrete and tangible path in dealing with the majority of cases. So until then, “Do not riposte unless you know it will catch them off guard.”



  • @Stinker:

    #1 rule when fighting MAA’s as a knight:

    Never, ever, ever riposte.

    There’s nothing wrong with Riposte -> Feint -> attack while dashing to the MaA. From what I’ve noticed, veterans will just riposte into your face if you dash up to them and do a vanilla attack. I understand where you’re coming from, though. MaA initiates with a thrust, you block and riposte, he dodges then immediately attacks, hitting you and starting a chain of combos.



  • You cannot feint ripostes. Also Men at Arms should not use dodge to get close - it blocks attacking and chances are that you bounce off the bubble and end up in a bad spot. For the same reason dashing past enemies will fail sometimes. So usually you want to use your dodge to get some distance between you and your enemy.

    When using a longer weapon (Poleaxe, Longsword) you might be able to force a block after dodge - a major setback for any Man at Arms if you keep up the aggression. However, to do so you have to be precise and know your weapon length. If he dodges and you miss your strike its usually a net (stamina) win for the MaA.



  • You’re right, I don’t know why I said riposte, brain snagged on that…what I meant was close the distance with an attack/feint/attack.



  • I think most of shield-using MaA’s are lower ranks because maa-veterans usually dont use shields…
    So if you see a shield-using MaA you can expect he’s someone that find it hard to parry with their weapon.
    Best strategy is to constantly keep him defensive by spamming attacks. He will get out of stamina and you’ll brutally slaughter him. Just make sure you are the one who is spamming attacks and it’ll be allright.
    I usually play MaA and used heater shield at first. Getting owned by overhead-spamming vanguards was the only reason for me to get rid of shields.



  • I’m lvl 53 at the moment.

    I tend to take a shield as a MAA as I like to feint, a lot. The shield is easily the best defense against feints and drags. If you feel you need to riposte you can always put your shield away.

    One of the easiest attacks to block with a shield are horizontal attacks. The hardest are well placed jump stabs.
    You really have three main strategies you can take:

    1. If you don’t have a good stabbing weapon, then swap out to your secondary, preferably faster weapon.
    2. Use a heavy weapon, big two hander or something, and keep smashing their shield to make them run out of/low on stamina.
    3. Don’t fight them.

    Learn to hit trade. The probable easiest time you will have hitting an MAA is with a hit trade.

    You also need to be aware of and have a good estimate of his/her’s stamina. If they have dodged and missed/feinted an attack or two, start pressing them hard, make them use their shield to defend your hits, they will run out or low of stamina. If you hear that puffing sound, press them harder again be ready for your free stamina drained hit. Try not to let them regen their stamina.
    Don’t chase them.

    It will be hard landing a kick shield stun on them, only use jump kicks really. Do use them though, as it keeps the MAA on their toes. You WANT the MAA dodging around using stamina.



  • If you can’t get around his shield by feinting into alt swings or stabbing around the shield, run up to him, feint a swing to provoke him into raising his shield then boot him the face and enjoy your free hit.

    On the other hand, if you want to just cheese him out, pull out a shield and a norse sword, wait for him to attack and then immediately hit-trade with the norse overhead.



  • @Crysack:

    If you can’t get around his shield by feinting into alt swings or stabbing around the shield, run up to him, feint a swing to provoke him into raising his shield then boot him the face and enjoy your free hit.

    On the other hand, if you want to just cheese him out, pull out a shield and a norse sword, wait for him to attack and then immediately hit-trade with the norse overhead.

    Most higher level shield users will drop their shield on the start of a kick animation, so it can be quite difficult to land that kick at all. Although I still find it makes it harder for me when people try to land it, it keeps me guessing a little more, maybe just enough to hesitate and not raising my shield in time for an attack.

    Use your riposte whenever possible to land a hit on their shield and hurt their stamina. DO NOT LET THEM REGEN STAMINA. The biggest drawback of the shield is the stamina drain, use that against a shield user.



  • Fighting MAA as shield knight… Simple.
    Fighting vanguard as Shield Knight… Even simpler.
    Fighting grand mace or maul knight as Shield Knight… Much more difficult due to long standing stamina difficulties that have been unsolved since TBS decided to abandon trying to balance their main game in favour of an 1980’s arcade game.



  • @trooper:

    Fighting MAA as shield knight… Simple.
    Fighting vanguard as Shield Knight… Even simpler.
    Fighting grand mace or maul knight as Shield Knight… Much more difficult due to long standing stamina difficulties that have been unsolved since TBS decided to abandon trying to balance their main game in favour of an 1980’s arcade game.

    Congratulations on your useless post, the guy asked for tips. You just spam.

    How about you qaulify your ramblings. Exp:
    “Fighting MAA as shield knight… Simple.” HOW, tell him how.



  • Wait, is this [TPL]Toll or another Toll?



  • I have recently been working on countering shield MAA using knight. So far I have had pretty good success as a knight with a broadsword and no shield. I find it very effective because it’s overhead is extremely fast and has enough damage that landing an overhead and any other attack will kill MAA.

    My basic strategy when fighting a MAA is pull out my broadsword and wait for them to attack. Eventually, if they are intent on killing you, they will come in for a strike. You have to know when they are actually going to attack, rather than just back away or dodge past you, because many MAA like to bait you into swinging at air before they start attacking. But when they actually attack your best best is to hit trade an overhead with them. At this point they are one hit from any attack and you still have 3 hits before you die(assuming they are using broadsword. Norse is generally 5HTK). From here you can press the attack and try to hit trade again or force them to use up their stamina dodging you. They will generally play very cautiously knowing they are one hit from death.

    A problem arises if you miss your initial hit trade, or they come at you and you pre-emptively swing.

    If you miss your hit trade(and they hit you) prepare for a spam of different combos, your lucky to only take 2 before u can catch a block, but you will likely die here. If you do catch a block don’t necessarily combo an attack into it, most MAAs will dodge back and then do a stab when you miss your swing. Just start over and hope your not one hit from death. If you are one hit from death you are already dead.

    If you pre-emptively swing back up immediately, hopefully you wont have to panic parry because thats gonna cost you a lot of stam, so keep back peddling and try to get your stam up. The MAA will most likely come in for attack right after your swing. Sometimes, especially if you notice them trying to do this to you a lot, you can combo another attack into your swing, preferably an overhead, and the maa may walk right into it and hit trade you. If your lucky you wont even get hit. You may then press the attack. I would say comboing a second attack can be a very effective move in this case, because it will cost you less stam than a panic parry and you may get a hit out of it. I suppose it depends on how good the MAAs timing is and both of your footwork. Be careful with this move though because it burns up stam quick.

    You can try to kick at them when their shield is up but it is risky because if they decided to attack at the same time you will get hit and likely wont even get your kick out in time.

    I know it sucks that you have to take a hit to kill a MAA, but really its only a quarter of your health and I would trade a quarter of my health to show some uppitty ass hole lvl 20 MAA whose boss any day.

    I haven’t had the chance to use this strat against high level MAAs, but I have been dueling with a lvl 33 recently (I am level 42) and I have been having a lot of success. I know that may be partly due to the fact that in general I am better, but before I tried to find a way to beat them I would get slaughtered by MAA, even as low as level 20.

    I would never suggest using a 2 hander as some one said above me. There is virtually no way to land a hit on a decent MAA with a shield unless you stam drain him. But that is not so easy to do without getting hit. Not for me any way.

    Sorry for the text wall.

    PS: this is for 1v1 scenarios against MAA. If you are fighting them in TO just hold off until someone can help you(if thats an option). If someone on the MAAs team is coming and you need to kill him quick… good luck :/


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