Its that time of year again - TBS kick in the ass



  • So we have been through this before, and survived.

    But it is that time of year again.

    Online steam stats have dropped to 2,500 on a Thursday night, getting very close to our all time lows.

    TBS is off at some event with all their employees, drinking the coolaid, hopefully some shots and mixed drinks too.

    Meanwhile the community is getting restless. I like to think I have a pulse on the community and I do feel restlessness.

    6 months ago it was because of the studio change.

    Now its because of a side project called Deadliest Warrior.

    Now sure a good proportion of people will buy DW just out of desperation to get some new content. But I suspect many will be disappointed due to lack of new TO maps (plenty of threads on that).

    What I think TBS needs to do is pretend to get community feedback on either a new expansion, new version of the game, tell us when the SDK will be production ready, when will get new maps (if at all).

    Otherwise I feel the forum is going to get a little pissy. Already received PMs from prominent players who said they were done.

    I have a lot of patience, and have always been a firm supporter, but hell give us something more than just you are working on new classes (well one new class per faction), we need a bigger picture (if you have a strategy) and obviously timelines.

    Best I can do is ask (maybe my post will be deleted by the new overzealous moderator additions).



  • I’m bored, I wanna see new balance updates. When the hell was the last time we actually received a decent balance update. issues regarding the bubble?(unanswered) balance issues with the Knight, I could go on about all the issues with the weapons in the knights arsenal but I won’t, Anyone who has played the game can see there is something wrong with most of the knights weapons.

    Further balancing

    -Flail
    -Double Axe
    -Quarter Staff
    -Longsword
    -Sword of War

    Etc.

    Bugs in the game, Like getting stuck in areas of the map, Desyncs, Weapons going through shields. Speaking of shields where is the heater shield for the Knight that everyone was keen for I know I saw a developer say they’ll get around to it eventually but when!? It’s pretty darn obvious that the only reason Flail is so bad is because it requires the use of a buckler. Yet there has been nothing done to balance shields either.



  • Keep in mind a lot of us were told that everything would be all smooth and peachy once TBS got into their new in-house site. Since then I believe the bugs have gotten worse, the game has had some questionable balance changes and just overall mechanic changes, and now the studio has announced that they’ve begun work on new content that not all of us find appealing or true to CMW, all the while the game remains in what a lot of us see as a decline.

    The list of bugs alone and their living time, combined with the understanding that now they probably won’t be worked on or addressed any time soon, is really what’s causing my Chivalry-related woes.

    I believe once the SDK comes out we’re going to see some more content from some very dedicated modders. I’m REALLY hoping so…

    I’m thinking this is a really difficult position for TB to be in. I personally understand they have to make money. They can’t do anything more manpower-wise unless they create and sell new content (even with 1.2 million in sales a video game studio leaks money), and they can’t do anything bug-wise unless they have more people to put on the project. While we might not agree with it the partnership (or whatever is happening) with SpikeTV affords them more resources to put out more content to get more people to continue the longevity of Chivalry. If TB runs out of money Chivalry will forever be in the state it is now and most servers will be offline. Honestly I have to keep thinking about this the whole time I get angry about the situation, and I find myself flip-flopping between mild rage and complete understanding.

    Realistically what can they do?



  • All we need is the SDK. When we have that, the community can fix the bugs and provide more maps. As far as I’m aware, there’s more than one new TO map ready to go and already being played on the beta. Whether they’ll be available for vanilla as well as Chivalry+ I have no idea, though.



  • Realistically, they have a good product that people liked, but became turned off to. They need to analyze this in layers. You lose your biggest share, I think, when people cannot access your game. After that, we have the pubs and these forums full of people bragging about what d**s they can be and how they enjoy being giant knobs here and in-game. While this isn’t easy to fix, they have to do something. Imagine buying this for 25 bucks, it doesn’t work for a month, they patch it, you go on to an official server, get called a fg or some other hatespeech, and VK’d off you go…rinse and repeat for an hour (common post on Steam, not sure about here).

    Then of course add the general reputation this game has apparently gained for being generally buggy, and that pretty much explains everything. They got a lot of sales from deep discount sales. When the game won’t start and you bought it for 80% off, instead of understanding most players will simply assume and move on. Further, when researching the game and players read “no support provided go to the community” and the general response is either “get a new PC you d**k” or some other form of trolling, people put together a picture of a budget piece of software going down.

    Look at what people in this forum joke about doing to other players. That is why we bleed players from the community and that is why the game is less interesting to play. The mechanics are buggy but there, but there are only so many people to play with.

    To tie it up, I may not be the uber-programmer or mega-don modder, but as a modder/programmer, it worries me to invest time into UDK creations if the community is dying, which it always appears to be on the verge of. I am sure guys that are more dedicated are going to weigh this out as well before moving on. It is a shame, because it is Unreal based, you can do SO MUCH STUFF to this awesome template, but they have to keep a decent sized audience.

    What happened to the 24k they posted on that 1.2 million flag a few weeks ago? That was a good number, it was going in the right direction. I know I sound ridiculous, but I really believe the community that is left ought to give a damn a little bit and maybe try to make this game and these forums a bit more inviting, at least until there is a nice, solid number of returning players.



  • I’ve made this comparsion in some other thread way before but this forum feels almost exactly like TWI forum for killingfloor. It was a really compareable project except for a lot of funds coming from mini DLCs which made TWI able to develop several fully blown games afterwards. Now, the point is that the chivarly playerbase is likely about to match the level of a compareable project which is already 4 years old even before it’s first anniversary:
    -The steamplayercount is sometimes even higher for KF, not to mention the spikes caused by free content which is still regularly added, but mostly the same.
    -The small core is mostly defined by prehistorical hardliners who feel offended by noobish behaviour.
    -The big issues are actually solved by modders, which in KF feed TWI most of the new content (because they can frankly care less about it after 4 years and several real games developed as an actual company).
    -While KF has some game engine issues and ofc some bugs on it’s own, it was never considered to be broken or abandoned by a noticeable part of the community.

    Do we really want to reach this level already? Even surpass it?



  • TBS has shown time and time again that they can’t handle balancing, bugfixing and community feedback.
    It’ll be shown again with their cashgrab Deadliest Warrior.
    I hope some competent studio makes a game akin to Chivalry’s combat because it is enjoyable, but it’s sloppy.
    Maybe I’ve had too high of expectations for TBS in the past but now I’ve learned not to expect anything but mediocrity at best.
    I really want them to prove me wrong but I don’t think they will.



  • Balance is fine for now and can be left alone. This is pretty much he first time there isn’t an armada of people all saying that particular weapons are under or overpowered.

    Its the bugs that need focus.



  • @lemonater47:

    Balance is fine for now and can be left alone. This is pretty much he first time there isn’t an armada of people all saying that particular weapons are under or overpowered.

    Its the bugs that need focus.

    I tend to agree. The only possible exceptions are the Claymore which I think is fairly widely felt to be a bit too fast and shield stamina drain which most agree needs to be reduced. They could be fixed with a hotfix patch without too many problems.

    However putting them to one side and fixing bugs is the way to go. The one thing I would separate are bugs that are clearly unintended and fixable without changing anything else and other “bugs” which people constantly talk about which aren’t necessarily bugs in TB’s eyes such as the “bubble”.



  • @lemonater47:

    This is pretty much he first time there isn’t an armada of people all saying that particular weapons are under or overpowered.

    Thats because Shields are not considered weapons. We also got:

    • Warhammer (might be due to the shield issue and bubble)
    • Flails
    • Broad Dagger
    • Twohanded Messer slash (its stronger than the overhead)
    • Warbow Bodkin Arrows (over the top damage)
      and numerous other small examples.
      Balance should not be left alone but any further changes should be relatively small. Mechanics are okay right now - aside from the bubble which is too big (there is a lot the could be done but it does not need to be done).

    Its the bugs that need focus.

    I agree. Especially the dodge bug should have been fixed already.

    With the SDK the map/gamemode issue might be solved but the game still needs more polish and ongoing support.



  • I see no major balance issue right now

    I think what we really need right now is a few more maps



  • Yeah, I just uninstalled this morning. Just fired it up again after a five day break, thinking I’d drink a few beers and just try to enjoy myself like I used to. It seems to me I’ve been too close to this game for far too long and have overlooked quite a bit. There are SOOOOO many little bugs and inconsistencies in this game it’s absurd.

    Quite frankly, I think this is the worst state the game has ever been in. I’d honestly take any previous build over what’s currently available. Between commands being unintentionally queue’d, not executing at all, ghost swings, the overall clunky feel of combat and the numerous bugs, shoddy mechanics and the inconsistent feeling to gameplay… it’s just not worth it anymore.

    It was a fun run, don’t get me wrong. I’ve gotten more than enough entertainment value for the price I paid, but I think it’s at an end.

    To Torn Banner and all of you here (even those of you I’ve disagreed with), I wish you the best of luck. Truly. I hope it all turns around and something drastic happens to reinvigorate this game and make it shine. I hope my contributions to the community were worth something at least, and I hope someone better comes along to fulfill or continue what I leave behind.

    Ave atque vale! :cheers:



  • @Alyx:

    TBS has shown time and time again that they can’t handle balancing, bugfixing and community feedback.

    Indeed. They were non-professional one year ago and having a new office and 1,2 millions sales won’t change anything (except getting an unjustified big head). No support InGame/Forum, no listening, no bug/balance fix, condescension, … Irritating and sad.



  • I recall that we were told there would NOT be any new maps. I can’t come up with a single reason to play this game anymore - it’s been a month since I’ve played anyway, think I’ll join HEXEN in the land of the ex-Chiv’rs.
    PS - @HEXEN - you added great value to the game for me. You’ll be missed.



  • @Junanagou:

    @Alyx:

    TBS has shown time and time again that they can’t handle balancing, bugfixing and community feedback.

    Indeed. They were non-professional one year ago and having a new office and 1,2 millions sales won’t change anything (except getting an unjustified big head). No support InGame/Forum, no listening, no bug/balance fix, condescension, … Irritating and sad.

    Haha I remember how they said that getting new studio would speed up patch process but we had to wait so much time for content provided by customization patch.



  • They sold a ton of copies at an extremely discounted low price (then brag about it) Furthermore the majority of people who bought this game probably barely played it or haven’t even installed it. Which is how most steam sales work.

    The game has a player retention problem or just plain sucks compared to Warband. Deadliest Warrior cannot and will not compete against M&B 2 or War of the Vikings.



  • @MUSASHI:

    They sold a ton of copies at an extremely discounted low price (then brag about it) Furthermore the majority of people who bought this game probably barely played it or haven’t even installed it. Which is how most steam sales work.

    The game has a player retention problem or just plain sucks compared to Warband. Deadliest Warrior cannot and will not compete against M&B 2 or War of the Vikings.

    M&B 2 could be a year away from an actual playable state and War of the Vikings is the same god damn thing as War of the Roses just vikings. War of the Roses I played for 40 minutes and it still sits in my steam libary to this day 3 months on. Chivalry is just one of those games you can get on play with your friends for a few hours get off and play it every other day or everyday and still enjoy it.

    That’s not to say It’s perfect as it once was, For me at least. I do find myself getting bored a lot more recently of this game, I’m playing it every other day now probably for a few hours, I roll a bunch of fools and get off.

    If there was a choice between expansions like this and DLC with new maps or weapons I think I’d of rathered the DLC.



  • @SirBlade:

    @MUSASHI:

    They sold a ton of copies at an extremely discounted low price (then brag about it) Furthermore the majority of people who bought this game probably barely played it or haven’t even installed it. Which is how most steam sales work.

    The game has a player retention problem or just plain sucks compared to Warband. Deadliest Warrior cannot and will not compete against M&B 2 or War of the Vikings.

    M&B 2 could be a year away from an actual playable state and War of the Vikings is the same god damn thing as War of the Roses just vikings. War of the Roses I played for 40 minutes and it still sits in my steam libary to this day 3 months on.

    If FatShark isn’t completely incompetent and actually use player feedback (winkwink, nudgenudge) then they won’t reuse the combat system of War of the Roses. The combat, which was the focus of that game, simply sucked. If they’re smart and actually cared about their games, and they show signs that they do since WotR is still getting support, they’d scrap WotR’s combat and go with something new and … I dunno, not dumb.

    As for Chiv, this game always had a player retention problem. It isn’t anything new. To be fair, this game saw a 1,000 player increase in the past couple months. But having over a million copies sold only to have maybe 3,000 players at any given time is really strange to me. Which begs the question of how the hell can they expect Deadliest Warrior to do well when so many people are turned off at THIS game once they get to play it?



  • I’m not entirely sure that player retention is their plan at this point, or else we’d be seeing a lot more support for this game than we currently are. Right now Chivalry is in a sweet spot where it’s the only game of it’s kind- and I imagine they’re trying to push out new content while that’s still the case.

    A developer posted today in a thread about the super/long jump that MaAs can perform. He honestly said something along the lines of “thanks for letting us know about this.”

    How could you possibly not know about this and be a developer in this game? This is one of the most widespread and easily identifiable bugs I’ve seen. Play the game two hours and you’ll see it at least once. If you look at someone do it you can pretty much tell how to do it. It’s also got a few posts dedicated to it in the bug section, which they’re at least starting to post two to three word answers in on every eighth post. But still, today is the day TB was made aware of this.

    Oh but it gets better.

    Two or three posts above the dev’s comment a player had posted a specific document he had created about the different states that long jump could be performed in and also claimed to he had an unlisted video describing how to do it. He said he sent the information to TBS months ago and never heard back. Goodness, HOW IS THIS NOT FIXED YET?

    And NOW they’re thanking the community, which has been talking about this for months on the forums and probably longer in-game, for letting them know. I mean- are they looking at the forums? Do they play the game? Do they check their e-mail? How exactly are they determining what needs to be fixed in this game and what doesn’t?

    No transparency, no confirmed bug list, no basic game plan outlined to the community that is turning their backs on it at an alarming rate. It’s true what they say, Chivalry is dead. Well, dying :( . New people come in and see the bugs, can’t join games that are nearly empty, can’t join in with their friends on steam (STILLLLLL?), see random crashes, etc. and just decide to quit. Veterans (like HEXEN) see this kind of behavior from the developers and jump ship. The time for “holding out for something better” is nearing an end. Faith in the developer’s is dwindling. But hey, Spartans.

    New and gimmicky content won’t fix this game’s longevity, I’m agreeing with those who are saying so.



  • @Dr:

    …I tend to agree. The only possible exceptions are the Claymore which I think is fairly widely felt to be a bit too fast and shield stamina drain which most agree needs to be reduced. They could be fixed with a hotfix patch without too many problems.

    However putting them to one side and fixing bugs is the way to go. The one thing I would separate are bugs that are clearly unintended and fixable without changing anything else and other “bugs” which people constantly talk about which aren’t necessarily bugs in TB’s eyes such as the “bubble”.

    :? …Back on to constructive talk;
    i highly suspect the claymore speed isn’t really too fast but its ‘dragbility’ is too good and these factors combined work as a multiplier.
    If a weapon is very fast it does not require as much dragging over time compared to a slower weapon.
    So the balancing solution could be to reduce the dragability of the claymores attacks on an attack basis - eg i think the stab would need the largest dragability nurf compared to the other attacks.
    If both speed of weapon and it’s ‘dragaibilty’ are balanced properly then the weapon will be fine. And the claymore being what it is i’d prefer to see its dragability nurfed then its speed be nurfed.

    On to the broadsword:
    -Its super crazy stab reach - a bit over the top aye? (be consistent TB every player could do super epic rubber-band-man reaches with all the weapons but then the difference between them would just be the same…Just stop with the special treatment with the way players reeeeach with certain weapons thanks)
    -damn its fast, but its not so much that its fast, more that its animation is confusing. The windup looks to be a bit slow and WTF, and then sudden flash the release exceeds the speed that the average ping can keep up with eg less then 70ms…


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