Parrying



  • [youtubehd:f6e0v3ov]V3SeX-kyxlg[/youtubehd:f6e0v3ov]

    Footage of 2 rounds.
    The screenshots in this album are exactly one frame (~62 fps) before I got hit.



  • All of those parries seemed off to me. A lot of them went around your left hand side. Others clearly weren’t early enough.



  • Some of those you are parrying too late.



  • @NabsterHax:

    All of those parries seemed off to me. A lot of them went around your left hand side. Others clearly weren’t early enough.

    So am I understanding you correctly, you say that I am at fault in all those clips and there is no bug to be found?
    I agree that 3-4 parries against the archer between 0:04-0:08 are too late. But the rest should be ok.

    This screenshot is one frame before I get the hit, I guess we can agree that the parry is there and at the right position or not?



  • It’s very easy to tell from the video that those parries were no where near as good as they should be.

    You can make single frames like that, but it doesn’t give any information about players’ movements and aiming which are extremely important when there’s even the slightest bit of lag involved. Sometimes you need to aim your parry further than their weapon because on their screen they are actually further round your side.

    On that screenshot I can’t quite tell very well what you did wrong (is that bit actually in the video?). I suspect you turn at the very last second to try to catch this one, which doesn’t work because on the enemy player’s client you haven’t even turned at all by that time.

    Point is, parrying IS reliable. Just because it doesn’t work exactly how most people expect it to, that doesn’t mean it’s bugged. Flicking your aim to parry last second doesn’t work well because of lag, but parrying slightly earlier and tracking the attack as much as possible (not flicking) will give you greater success.



  • @NabsterHax:

    Sometimes you need to aim your parry further than their weapon because on their screen they are actually further round your side.

    Just because it doesn’t work exactly how most people expect it to, that doesn’t mean it’s bugged.

    People expect it to work how the game tells them it works (aim for the tip). And what I see should be extremely accurate when both players have a ping <70ms which is the case in the video.
    I know what went wrong with most of the parries in the video and how I could have avoided them, but that is not the point. Just because there is a way to parry that does not mean the system is free of errors.

    Should TB change the loading hint to “Aim your parry further than their weapon because on their screen they are actually further round your side.”?

    I may be wrong but I think it was way, way better in the release / pre CU1 version.

    The screenshot is from the very first archer parry.



  • The overall skill level of players has increased, so they’re better at getting around parries. I remember the first couple months after the game was released, I could beat most people just by trading a few counterattacks/parries back and forth and then not counterattacking when they expected me to. That almost never works now, but it’s not because counterattacks have gotten weaker.



  • @fvonb:

    Just because there is a way to parry that does not mean the system is free of errors.

    You’re right - but I don’t think what you are seeing are really “errors,” but more a technological limitation being handled in the fairest possible way. Well, I won’t actually even try to argue this is the best or fairest way to go about handling parries, but it does work when you understand the system.

    Personally, I wouldn’t have it many other ways. A more lenient parry system is not what this game needs. If there were a way to make getting parries right less frustrating, but equally difficult then I would be all for it. Something simply telling you roughly where the blow landed (in your side, over the top, etc.) would be useful.

    If you know your parry could have been better, then I believe that’s what you should strive for every time. What would be the purpose of perfecting your parries when you could just get “close enough” every time?



  • @fvonb:

    That looks so much like a correct parry to me. There are obviously a few in there that were not going to block correctly, but you’ve said that (the MaAs stabbing you in the side- man I feel your pain there).

    Honestly on that one and a few others I would suspect some sort of latency. I land parries that look like some of those without getting hit. I don’t think the system is as broken as people’s internet.

    From my own experience the only thing that makes parry frustrating is that it doesn’t feel as responsive as I once felt it did, but I could be completely wrong on this. If an MaA decides to broad/norse/any 1 Hander stab feint you there isn’t enough time between release and hitting for your parry to go up, so you’re pretty much left playing a game of guessing.

    I did have one time yesterday when I parried a knight’s double axe in duel, heard the sound, had it bounce off, saw the sparks, and then died immediately after. Only once though, but it was weird.



  • @NabsterHax:

    Flicking your aim to parry last second doesn’t work well because of lag, but parrying slightly earlier and tracking the attack as much as possible (not flicking) will give you greater success.

    How much earlier is slightly earlier? I’ve been trying to parry at the latest possible time recently to get better at defending against feints but sometimes this happens to me as well. I’ve even had plain slashes go directly through my parry (and shield block, is it possible to do last second shield blocks or does the time it take for the shield to go up not count as a melee block?).

    OP your basic problem is not turning to the left enough to block stabs. If someone is circling around you to your left, you need to move to your right and block the stab as if it were a slash.
    Going by the photo album:

    1. turn left more
    2. This overhead looks like it will hit your chest/foot seeing how he is not looking at you in this frame, looking up blocks nothing. Back away from him and block looking a bit left of him.
    3. turn left more
    4. this is a slash yes? down and left
    5. much more to the right
    6. you needed to move right and look left
    7. obviously up
    8. left

    Some of these are obvious, I don’t know why you posted them all.



  • Watching the video and then saying that the parrys are just too late is very speculative considering any lag which is subtle if any and actual game recording. The problem with what some would say is a late parry, the start of the attack animations of the enemy signal when and where to parry, or at least it should. It doesn’t always because in a fast exchange you have to try and anticipate when and where the next spam is coming from.

    In the case of the archer dagger 3 spam kill. Watch again. There is no time to recover from the first parry fail, press the button and parry fails again and again. It is virtually impossible to parry the continuing spam once the initial parry has failed. Thus you are trying to play catch up against the hit and the blow back where the button to actual animation is failing. In other words you hope you have enough health to survive the spam long enough to get a kick in or a good parry.

    Also watching this set of parrys, what he is doing is intuitive. Looking in the right direction of the attack yet still they are failing. So is he supposed to have physic powers and be to predict and then to pre parry? This is why I have argued for the ability to tap or hold up your parry. If you hold a directional parry for too long than an opposite swing would do damage. Point being is that a holdable directional parry gives the power and timing back to the player and not dependent upon timing the animation correctly which is silly in it current form due to many reasons. For one, not all weapon parrys have the same speed, length and time to raise, hold and recover. Nor should they because of the weapons weight and length. But again this is where a holdable parry comes into play.

    Just like Mohammad Ali used the rope-a dope and held up his parry till the other guy ran out of stamina. A holdable parry would have the same effect and prevent some the the off timing short weapon spamming.

    The other thing which I have been supportive of is small weapon parries taking damage from a successful parry from the large heavy weapons. Example: Dagger VS Maul. This should be a no brainer. If a dagger successfully parries a Maul there should still be damage punishment as well. I would say 20% that way they can only parry 5 swings. This will change how the game is played forcing archers to be better archers and putting a little fear from the slow heavy weapons where there currently is none.



  • @NabsterHax:

    All of those parries seemed off to me. A lot of them went around your left hand side. Others clearly weren’t early enough.

    I have to agree.

    The only weird one that seems that should have worked was at 0:03 - 0:04 against the LMB. Seemed like he looked far enough to the left. The only thing I could possibly explain for that one is too early of a parry and he got you on the exact frame your parry went down.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @NabsterHax:

    All of those parries seemed off to me. A lot of them went around your left hand side. Others clearly weren’t early enough.

    I have to agree.

    The only weird one that seems that should have worked was at 0:03 - 0:04 against the LMB. Seemed like he looked far enough to the left. The only thing I could possibly explain for that one is too early of a parry and he got you on the exact frame your parry went down.

    I would say he looked too far to the left and the accelerated swing hit him behind his parry. In general, the tracking of the weapons throughout the parry wasn’t great.



  • ah yes the 1-frame sweet spot, forgot about those.



  • having latency affect parries so often sucks though, i like to parry almost at the exact time or JUST before slightly where i’m going to get hit. I watch out for feints and silly tricks a lot, and you need to be sure when you parry one handers there wont be a feint or some other trickery in there. With daggars i pretty much parry as soon as possible, but with other weapons i like to wait until the strike is going to hit me. This doesn’t work that well and you have to parry way sooner, but i just think that sucks… especially if you want to actually watch what’s happening rather than just parry out of instinct. I don’t like just parrying to parry, in comp there are a lot of feints thrown around, and a lot of new players even throw feints out there, and if you can’t parry at the time it’s actually going to hit you, might as well have just fallen for a feint.

    latency probably causes MOST of the issues with hit detection in the game.

    A lot of those frames against maa/archer and such though, you have to turn WAY further than that, even looking at the screenshots it doesn’t seem like it to you, but as a rule of thumb i think i always take how far i THINK i should turn, and add an in game foot or two to that.

    some of them actually looked like good parries to me though… soooo kinda bullshit.

    falchion - never forget.


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