Comparison between Daggers and Fists



  • After looking through a couple of various values and compared the dagger values with the fist values, it has pretty much occured to me that it does not make any sense that your own hands should be slower than your own hands again with a piece of metal in it, adding more weight to it itself should be making it slower.

    Here is a couple of comparison that does not make any sense:

    • Broad Dagger Equipup 0.3 Vs. Fist equipup 0.5

    • Broad Dagger attack1 combo 0.5 Vs. Fist attack1 combo 0.625

    • Broad Dagger parry strenght 7 Vs. Fist parry strenght 0

    • Broad Dagger force 10000 Vs. Fist Force 0

    So fists may be this “Joke” weapon that Torn Banner seemed to add to the game, though why not actually make it something useful for a finisher? It is a high risk reward weapon. And once you have been blocked with your fists, you are good as dead since the attacker may just slash while looking down, attacking you in a way you can impossibly evade.

    One extra feature that would be nice with fists.
    When a fist blocks a attack from a actual weapon, it should deal 100% damage while canceling the attackers combo possability, like. Taking a hit to cancel the opponent, cmon guys… fists are weak, but they should be viable at some point. please state your opinions and ect here.



  • Changes I would like to see with Fists:

    • Equipup 0.5>0.25

    • Equipdown 0.5>0.25

    • Parry take full hit, but cancel combo opportunity

    • Flinch upon hit 0.9>1.1

    • Attack1 combo 0.625>0.525

    • Attack2 combo 0.6>0.5

    • Attack3 combo 0.625>0.525



  • how about dealing 70% damage to someone blocking with their fists instead?



  • @Xylvion:

    how about dealing 70% damage to someone blocking with their fists instead?

    This is a neato idea. Also, it does make sense for dagger to be quicker. When punching with enough force to want to kill a man, one winds back and prepares the whole body for the strike. The daggers, however, are held and used with more finesse, allowing for quicker strikes. Make sense now?



  • I think it would be very annoying if fist finishers become a regular thing. Daggers are irritating enough already, I don’t want to be forced on the defensive when my HP is low just because anyone can run up and hittrade with his bare hands.

    As for the parry, it should not be anything that gives you an advantage in combat as a fist user against someone with a weapon. Maybe you could interrupt the enemy, but take full damage, double stamina drain and be knocked back slightly like you would from a fast kick, giving you a chance to switch weapons before the next attack. Then again I think this is largely unnecessary.

    I’d much rather fists remain a joke weapon for humiliation and unarmed duels. Too bad fist duels aren’t that interesting anymore now that bubble makes it hard to land anything but overheads. A bubble change specific to fists would be nice.



  • i always attempt to block with fists thinking it could do arm damage rather than torso/head damage. Doesn’t work out too well for me.



  • Make fists more useful and noone will use weapons anymore, except for archers…
    If you do well at ducking and jumping you can get down an enemy in 1v1 so damn quick when using your fists. Flinch+ combospeed (even though it’s not lightningspeed or something ridiculous) make the fists actually a good option when fighting guys with slow weapons. I wouldn’t dare attacking an maa with bare fists though…



  • :D

    Fists are in the right place now - virtually useless against armoured opponents with weapons.
    That’s where they should stay.
    No going back to the fist madness of a few patches ago.



  • Torrenz, Fists current inaccuracy has nothing to do with the bubble, but the rather messed up swingtraces Torn Banner decided to give them.

    Fists are currently useless in the game, they aren’t even useful for a ‘Finisher’ at all right now because of the slow equiptime, giving the enemy too much time to respond to your move, fists already has a huge disadvantage of having no ways to block a incomming attack that isn’t a fist, not to mention the combo timers which is on par with Two-handed weapons, Its like you are swinging a invisible small weak two-hander when you play with fists. Least make them ‘slightly’ useful and we might see some interesting setups out there.

    Right now its just a joke on joke, should just be removed from the game since it won’t do any good :-P



  • I use fists as a finisher all the time. Its hilarious.

    You don’t want to make fists OP. Fists have to be underpowered. You can’t even have them balanced.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Torrenz, Fists current inaccuracy has nothing to do with the bubble, but the rather messed up swingtraces Torn Banner decided to give them.

    Fists are currently useless in the game, they aren’t even useful for a ‘Finisher’ at all right now because of the slow equiptime, giving the enemy too much time to respond to your move, fists already has a huge disadvantage of having no ways to block a incomming attack that isn’t a fist, not to mention the combo timers which is on par with Two-handed weapons, Its like you are swinging a invisible small weak two-hander when you play with fists. Least make them ‘slightly’ useful and we might see some interesting setups out there.

    Right now its just a joke on joke, should just be removed from the game since it won’t do any good :-P

    I disagree with this. Sure in a competitive match they aren’t great but in pubs they can be used lethally. Footwork, ducks and even jumps for survivability. They become powerful ‘berserk’ weps, like a downgraded version of the cudgel. I find myself fighting and beating competent players when they have a weapon and I’m using my fists of moderate anger.

    Practice. Fight as a MaA would fight. Be the leaf.



  • Surely the reason fist attack times are slower than daggers is because they still have the ability to flinch the opponent and prevent windup? Setting aside hitbox/bubble/tracer issues, dagger-speed fists would kind of mean every class has another free secondary (second secondary? tertiary?) capable of countering mauls and other slow weapons.

    A player with good timing and footwork can still sometimes beat the tar out of someone who screws up on their blocks, I think what’s really holding fists back is these stupid issues with hitboxes, tracers and the bubble (I’m still of the belief that the bubble is part of the problem). It makes more sense for these to be fixed before we start modifying weapon stats etc.

    Finally I’d say I disagree that ‘fists are a joke so they should just be removed from the game’, if they’re going to be kept as a joke weapon then leave them in as exactly that. I kind of thought that’s what the original intention was anyway…



  • Change I would like to see with fist is a better vertical jump, pretty hard to avoid hit with that =/

    And fuck, Hope they’ll never removed them from game ! I would have to use weapons again… It’s so vanguard style =’(


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