Did they simply give the Knights Longswrd to VG's?



  • Now really I suppose this question is directed towards those players that spec’ed Knight with Long sword before " THE PATCH". I understand that some folks have managed just fine with the knight long sword since “THE PATCH”
    But I seem to have noticed lately when going up against VG’s equipping the long sword “their” Long sword now seems to have all the attributes the knight long sword “used to have”… Minus of course the added reach they tend to give to the " training wheel " class I call Vanguard… ;o)

    Personally I find using the long sword (now) as a knight equivalent to swinging through water. I.E. damn ass slow. And that’s just a lmb, forget about combo’ing against the same opponent. If you do not know of which I speak simply load Promod or Chiv + and preform a simple lmb, you will notice the difference right away.

    I’m wondering if any other primary knight class has noticed this.

    And with regards to the VG (bashing) I don’t really hate the class it’s just something inside of me ( with all games I play) that repels me from using the easiest class in the game…



  • I’m with you on this for sure.



  • @Canadian:

    Now really I suppose this question is directed towards those players that spec’ed Knight with Long sword before " THE PATCH". I understand that some folks have managed just fine with the knight long sword since “THE PATCH”
    But I seem to have noticed lately when going up against VG’s equipping the long sword “their” Long sword now seems to have all the attributes the knight long sword “used to have”… Minus of course the added reach they tend to give to the " training wheel " class I call Vanguard… ;o)

    Personally I find using the long sword (now) as a knight equivalent to swinging through water. I.E. damn ass slow. And that’s just a lmb, forget about combo’ing against the same opponent. If you do not know of which I speak simply load Promod or Chiv + and preform a simple lmb, you will notice the difference right away.

    I’m wondering if any other primary knight class has noticed this.

    And with regards to the VG (bashing) I don’t really hate the class it’s just something inside of me ( with all games I play) that repels me from using the easiest class in the game…

    I think the point of giving the knight the slower weapon is to encourage drags (both sped up and slower strikes) and other strike manipulation so you have greater versatility with the new knight swords. Honestly, I’m not quite sure why you’re using a sword as a knight primary because when you’re fighting classes where swords are effective (save pierce attacks) you’ll usually need a quicker weapon to fight toe-to-toe. Unless you just like fighting with weapons you like I suppose.

    As for your vanguard bashing I can’t say you’re right. Easy to learn? Yes. Easy to master? No. They’re super vulnerable to archers and any knight worth his salt should be able to dispatch vanguards without too much trouble (No I don’t play van, I’m a MaA/Knight). If you’re looking for a challenging game that’s simple; pick archer with sling primary and saber secondary. Don’t use the sling. Fight with the saber like a fencing expert and see how hard that is.



  • I don’t know why everyone seems to think VG is the easiest class to play. They’re just the class with the most offensive abilities. Easiest to rack up kills? Sure, easiest to survive? Go LMB into a crowd and tell me how long you survive.

    That being said, I believe the knight nerfs came in order to define the knight as more of a defensive player rather than an offensive one. Prepatch, knights were the best defensive players and they had quite a bit of offensive power as well– they still do, but it’s not as much as before.

    Knight: Defensive
    Vanguard: Offensive
    MAA: Harasser/Flanker
    Archer: Ranged



  • Footbeard?

    I think the point of giving the knight the slower weapon is to encourage drags (both sped up and slower strikes) and other strike manipulation so you have greater versatility with the new knight swords. Honestly, I’m not quite sure why you’re using a sword as a knight primary because when you’re fighting classes where swords are effective (save pierce attacks) you’ll usually need a quicker weapon to fight toe-to-toe. Unless you just like fighting with weapons you like I suppose.

    As for your vanguard bashing I can’t say you’re right. Easy to learn? Yes. Easy to master? No. They’re super vulnerable to archers and any knight worth his salt should be able to dispatch vanguards without too much trouble (No I don’t play van, I’m a MaA/Knight). If you’re looking for a challenging game that’s simple; pick archer with sling primary and saber secondary. Don’t use the sling. Fight with the saber like a fencing expert and see how hard that is.

    aahhhh…… Wha??? Moving on. Thaks for playing though.

    Event.

    I don’t know why everyone seems to think VG is the easiest class to play. They’re just the class with the most offensive abilities. Easiest to rack up kills? Sure, easiest to survive? Go LMB into a crowd and tell me how long you survive.

    That being said, I believe the knight nerfs came in order to define the knight as more of a defensive player rather than an offensive one. Prepatch, knights were the best defensive players and they had quite a bit of offensive power as well– they still do, but it’s not as much as before.

    Knight: Defensive
    Vanguard: Offensive
    MAA: Harasser/Flanker
    Archer: Ranged

    K as stated this thread is primarily with regards to one specific weapon with regards to a specific class but I’ll indulge.

    The fact that you state this… “I don’t know why everyone seems to think VG is the easiest class to play.” must at least answer your own question… Does it not? I.E " EVERYONE"… hint … hint…

    As to knights being a defencive class, yes they should be but with the introduction of the increased stam loss there is no such thing as a “Defencive” class any longer. There is only " STAM DEAD" ™ lol…

    Anyway not looking for a flame fest just some honest feed back.

    Hugs.
    Canadain.



  • I agree that the longsword is a crappy greatsword at this point, but I don’t see the problem with that. It still has the quick stab and knight has a broader selection of secondaries to round out their armaments than vanguards do.

    I was playing much more knight than vanguard a few patches ago because vanguard was just so fragile by comparison with little to offer offensively that the SoW and longsword couldn’t do. I still think vanguard is generally the most vulnerable class, but now that knight swords are nerfed and some vanguard weapons got buffed I think they are far better differentiated and more interesting to pick between. Sword knight with blunt secondary and shield is still a versatile choice I like to fall back to, but no longer as devastating offensively as a sword or polehammer vanguard.

    @Canadian:

    And with regards to the VG (bashing) I don’t really hate the class it’s just something inside of me ( with all games I play) that repels me from using the easiest class in the game…

    Sword knight was a beefy vanguard before the changes you mention. Just as easy, but more effective.

    Even now, vanguard isn’t the easiest class if you ask me. It’s not surprising that it’s popular with new players since it seems like the most generic, average fighter, so maybe that’s where that feeling inside of you comes from? There certainly are more terrible vanguards around than other classes. However I think both archer and MAA are more easy/effective initially, despite their potentially higher skill ceilings.



  • @Torrenz:

    I agree that the longsword is a crappy greatsword at this point, but I don’t see the problem with that. It still has the quick stab and knight has a broader selection of secondaries to round out their armaments than vanguards do.

    I was playing much more knight than vanguard a few patches ago because vanguard was just so fragile by comparison with little to offer offensively that the SoW and longsword couldn’t do. I still think vanguard is generally the most vulnerable class, but now that knight swords are nerfed and some vanguard weapons got buffed I think they are far better differentiated and more interesting to pick between. Sword knight with blunt secondary and shield is still a versatile choice I like to fall back to, but no longer as devastating offensively as a sword or polehammer vanguard.

    @Canadian:

    And with regards to the VG (bashing) I don’t really hate the class it’s just something inside of me ( with all games I play) that repels me from using the easiest class in the game…

    Sword knight was a beefy vanguard before the changes you mention. Just as easy, but more effective.

    Even now, vanguard isn’t the easiest class if you ask me. It’s not surprising that it’s popular with new players since it seems like the most generic, average fighter, so maybe that’s where that feeling inside of you comes from? There certainly are more terrible vanguards around than other classes. However I think both archer and MAA are more easy/effective initially, despite their potentially higher skill ceilings.

    Ahh Torr, where would I be with out you. So…. As someone that primarily played Knight with long sword before the latest patch. You feel that that there is

    • no difference than? and all is right in the world with regards to this one weapon for knights?

    Bah I can see now I should have left out my… Distaste?? Loathing?? Nah… Dislike I think… lol for VG’s aside as it’s splitting the responses.



  • @Canadian:

    Ahh Torr, where would I be with out you. So…. As someone that primarily played Knight with long sword before the latest patch. You feel that that there is

    • no difference than? and all is right in the world with regards to this one weapon for knights?

    I did play a lot of sword of war knight a few patches ago. It was very powerful, and the nerf was very harsh. Too harsh? I’m not sure. There certainly was little point in using any other primary or even switching to a secondary, swords outperformed them in almost any situation. I think the swords still have their old versatility, but they’re no longer the best at everything. Maybe they could be a tiny bit faster since the damage nerf was so hard, but I don’t feel like they’re very weak right now.

    Everyone was a sword knight back then. Axes were garbage, blunt too niche. Weapon balance for knight feels much better now in my opinion, though there’s always room for improvement. Is there something concrete you’d want to see changed or reverted?

    @Canadian:

    Bah I can see now I should have left out my… Distaste?? Loathing?? Nah… Dislike I think… lol for VG’s aside as it’s splitting the responses.

    Maybe. Maybe not. People usually play nice here so there’s no harm in arguing more rather than less.



  • @Torrenz:

    @Canadian:

    Ahh Torr, where would I be with out you. So…. As someone that primarily played Knight with long sword before the latest patch. You feel that that there is

    • no difference than? and all is right in the world with regards to this one weapon for knights?

    I did play a lot of sword of war knight a few patches ago. It was very powerful, and the nerf was very harsh. Too harsh? I’m not sure. There certainly was little point in using any other primary or even switching to a secondary, swords outperformed them in almost any situation. I think the swords still have their old versatility, but they’re no longer the best at everything. Maybe they could be a tiny bit faster since the damage nerf was so hard, but I don’t feel like they’re very weak right now.

    Everyone was a sword knight back then. Axes were garbage, blunt too niche. Weapon balance for knight feels much better now in my opinion, though there’s always room for improvement. Is there something concrete you’d want to see changed or reverted?

    @Canadian:

    Bah I can see now I should have left out my… Distaste?? Loathing?? Nah… Dislike I think… lol for VG’s aside as it’s splitting the responses.

    Maybe. Maybe not. People usually play nice here so there’s no harm in arguing more rather than less.

    Hey Goofy!!! ;o)

    I’ll be sure to keep your comments in mind as soon as I post with regards to the SoW….

    PS what is that filth you have in your sig??? Didn’t realize Vanguards needed a tutorial… gotta be a pretty darn short tutorial… ( just ribbing you… ;o)

    Edit viewed your VG basics… LOL ok ok… You win… Nice and about sums it up… But I was right … " was pretty damn short…" ;)



  • @Canadian:

    Now really I suppose this question is directed towards those players that spec’ed Knight with Long sword before " THE PATCH". I understand that some folks have managed just fine with the knight long sword since “THE PATCH”
    But I seem to have noticed lately when going up against VG’s equipping the long sword “their” Long sword now seems to have all the attributes the knight long sword “used to have”… Minus of course the added reach they tend to give to the " training wheel " class I call Vanguard… ;o)

    Personally I find using the long sword (now) as a knight equivalent to swinging through water. I.E. damn ass slow. And that’s just a lmb, forget about combo’ing against the same opponent. If you do not know of which I speak simply load Promod or Chiv + and preform a simple lmb, you will notice the difference right away.

    I’m wondering if any other primary knight class has noticed this.

    And with regards to the VG (bashing) I don’t really hate the class it’s just something inside of me ( with all games I play) that repels me from using the easiest class in the game…

    HERE ARE THE FACTS: The longsword and greatsword prepatch were identical except for the stab times and range. Now the longsword is a slower, weaker greatsword with a quicker stab.

    I noticed how shitty the longsword became immediately and so did many others. I think most of the knight players either quit or ended up switching to vanguard. For those of you who want versatility, you’re better off being a vanguard. Knight weapons are generally slow, but hit hard with little to no range. If this is your thing, more power to you. In my opinion, they could have kept the damage changes to the longsword, but the speed definitely shouldn’t have been touched. It makes no sense that the greatsword is all around better with damage, range, and speed. No, this is not a “NERF GREATSWORD” statement. I’m sick of the nerfherding.

    Even if you actually like the current longsword (or the sword of war for that matter), why not just carry a maul or pollaxe for the damage and a broadsword just in case you’re feeling swordy?

    @Torrenz:

    Everyone was a sword knight back then. Axes were garbage, blunt too niche. Weapon balance for knight feels much better now in my opinion, though there’s always room for improvement. Is there something concrete you’d want to see changed or reverted?

    Not everyone. A lot of people? Maybe most? I’d go with that, but now we have the lateral switch from Knight to Vanguard. Yes, lots of people are willing to forego the “tankiness” that the knight was supposed to offer. With all that the patch has changed, you’re better off being a vanguard. Knights are gimped compared to every other class, but at least they’re still doable.

    @Footbeard:

    I think the point of giving the knight the slower weapon is to encourage drags (both sped up and slower strikes) and other strike manipulation so you have greater versatility with the new knight swords. Honestly, I’m not quite sure why you’re using a sword as a knight primary because when you’re fighting classes where swords are effective (save pierce attacks) you’ll usually need a quicker weapon to fight toe-to-toe. Unless you just like fighting with weapons you like I suppose.

    First of all, swing manipulation isn’t knight specific. And second, what? I guess broadsword is the best knight weapon.



  • @Event:

    Easiest to rack up kills? Sure, easiest to survive? Go LMB into a crowd and tell me how long you survive.

    Easy to survive when everyone else is dead. Half the time you can’t even wait for them to lose stamina because they’re kiting around swinging wildly without punishment and connecting with at least one player who isn’t aware there’s a raging van behind/beside them. Oh, the troubles of pub life.

    Back on topic though, LS is still a fun weapon to play if you fight packs of players, and still controls quite nicely on release, but in an evenly matched fight/duel against a greatsword/claymore it falls short more often than it once would, but i think the most critical aspect of that is the knockback from having to parry to get in range pushes you just that little bit too far out to counter effectively. Just my opinion based on my playstyle, each to their own though.



  • Why are you people even surprised ? This game took a huge turn towards casual audience, and TBS is not even trying to hide it.

    The only thing they try to hide is their laziness and lack of communication with the actual non-rank-20 community.

    The weapons balance is completely shit atm. you can figure out why the entire Balance Council disappeared without a word.

    Before the “patch”, there were quite a few useful weapons, now it’s Messer/1hSoW + Norse/Broadsword + Shield, since the Longsword got nerfed into oblivion.



  • The Claymore and Greatsword are better in nearly every way that matters when it comes to duels, and also the advantages translate well to team games too.

    More reach. Faster. Better dragging potential with stabs. Greater knockback (thankfully this was toned down a bit) and finally, Vanguards move a bit faster by default too. What does the knight longsword have over these weapons? Nothing. The only advantage a knight has is more resistance, slightly so.

    Oh, and let’s not forget that these fantastic swords now have the best lookdown overheads in the game short of a bardiche.



  • I’m fine with the longsword.

    But the sword of war is pretty useless.

    They could speed up both.



  • The vanguard’s “longsword” is called a greatsword by the way.
    The longsword isn’t as good as the greatsword because the knight has more armor than the vanguard.
    The longsword’s speed allows for dragged attacks, usually overhead. I find that the slash isn’t that great for delaying unless you’re fighting an opponent who always tries to strafe to dodge your attacks.



  • sow should be knights claymore, make it wicked fast and screw up animations left and right.

    Longsword is still my go-to sword/weapon, even with the nerf, i still do pretty well with it overall, especially in team games. SoW i never even think twice about, it’s a no from me… but used to be the go-to sword for most knights out there.


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