Why is Kick disabled with non-melee weapons?



  • Perhaps the kick maneuver is intentionally disabled when holding a ranged or thrown weapon (except javelin, as it’s a hybrid and always has the shield equipped anyway). However I suspect it’s merely overlooked. I just can’t imagine the developers saying “So I was about to decapitate this MaA who waited too long to throw his firepot, but then he kicked me, giving himself time to switch to melee and then a proper duel ensued. Same thing happened against an Archer with bow, and then against Knight and VG with throwing axes. That’s totally OP guys; let’s nerf it! From now on, kicks / bashes are only allowed with melee!”

    It just doesn’t make sense, right? A warrior’s legs should work the same no matter what is wielded in their hands. I’m guessing that the kick / bash mechanic was originally implemented as part of the melee system, and just never got added to the ranged system at all. But really, no one noticed? Hasn’t anyone else been rushed at while using a ranged weapon, and then tried to kick away the attacker, only to realize it does nothing? I discovered this a long time ago and just assumed it was obvious enough to soon get patched.

    So either no one noticed, or there’s a valid reason it’s disabled. I can’t think of a good justification. Sure, Archers are already quite deadly in close quarters due to melee speed, so allowing them to buy extra time via kick if they don’t switch weapons early enough would only make them harder to run down. Still, I would let them kick and find other ways to tweak balance. But this isn’t about one class; all of them have a ranged weapon that magically grounds the wielder’s feet. Please Torn Banner, add the kick functionality to all weapons! It’s just plain weird otherwise! I love your game and love you guys for making it. Cheers

    I apologize if this has been covered already; I did some searching but didn’t find anything within several pages. If there’s an existing thread I would appreciate a link.



  • Kick is disabled for ranged weapons save spear because with, say, a crossbow, you could kick someone close to you, pull up your crossbow, and shoot them in the face. It’s less effective against non-shield wielders, but it can also be used to create enough distance to start running away, which is equally frustrating for the melee guy.



  • Oh God, we don’t want melee to be frustrated. Then they’ll bitch and moan about archers, and then they’ll bum rush and discriminate against archers even more than they do now.



  • @Event:

    Kick is disabled for ranged weapons save spear because with, say, a crossbow, you could kick someone close to you, pull up your crossbow, and shoot them in the face. It’s less effective against non-shield wielders, but it can also be used to create enough distance to start running away, which is equally frustrating for the melee guy.

    Yup. That’d be damn annoying. The archer’s secondaries are effective enough. They shouldn’t get another buff. If you don’t take our your secondary early enough, it’s your fault.



  • It would indeed feel disappointing to almost destroy a crossbowman, then get stunned and subsequently shot. As I said, the archer class is a risky one regarding kick, but if it’s truly too much, then at least the other classes should be able to kick with throwing weapons equipped? It’s not about buffing a class, it’s about using one’s legs as a tactical device, regardless of class.

    As for the crossbow scenario, consider this:
    A knight is closing the final 5 paces toward a crossbowman. If the crossbow is loaded, then the knight is already at risk of being shot point-blank. Nothing new here. But the xbowman waits until the last second and performs a strong kick. While the knight is recovering, headshot. Now, what could the knight have done to come out on top? Well first, I’d assume the crossbow must be lowered before kick is enabled; using it while looking down the sight would surely be too easy. So the knight could notice the sudden lowering of the xbow, and stop short so the archer’s kick misses. Then goodbye archer.

    But what if the knight is overzealous and gets kicked? Let’s assume the fast weak version connects. In my observation the fast kick stuns for a very short time; barely enough to get a free hit with the fastest 1-handers. If the archer can raise the xbow and fire before the weak kick is recovered from, that sounds OP (but not necessarily nonsensical; it’s not as if raising a wooden object from chest to face should take very long). A simple counterbalance would be to incur penalty on xbow raising speed post-kick. Slightly weird, but not as weird as being unable to kick at all I think. If the knight is hit by the strong kick, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the xbowman to get a tiny shot window during recovery. The archer would have had to lower his xbow earlier, which is more readable by the knight and is pretty much the same as lowering in time to switch to melee.

    I’d say that a loaded crossbow is the only reason to be worried. Bows and slings have enough windup time such that even a strong kick won’t grant time to fire. Personally I would use kick as a chance to switch weapons, not to try ranged one more time. I would like to see it play tested, as I’m not aware if it ever has been. How exploitable is it actually? Again, I am not advocating more strength for the archer, but just a wider range of technique for any class equipping ranged.

    Does anyone have thoughts regarding this mechanic for non-archer classes?



  • Look up the 100 other threads about the same object.



  • @afiNity:

    Look up the 100 other threads about the same object.

    Thanks for your condescension, and not providing any links after I politely apologized and asked. But guess what, I have spent some additional time searching. Surely I missed a few, but it would take hours of scouring to find them all. I found only about 12 threads in year 2013 in which someone mentions it. Half of those involve the original poster actually creating the topic about it. And only 2 were about ranged weapons in general, while the rest were archer-specific.

    I’ll perform the courtesy of linking a few:
    Rework Throwing Weapons
    Allow Kick when using throwing axes/knives/bow
    Bow Kick
    Kick with bow (F) / More bushes at maps (stealth).

    They all had the same thing in common. Just like the initial replies to my thread, everyone’s answer was “Because archer would be OP.” I still have no clue if the developers agree wholeheartedly with this, whether that’s the actual reason they never enabled it. To me, it just seems the speculation of people who already consider archer OP (or almost). Personally I don’t agree with the sentiment “If you didn’t switch already, you deserve punishment.” What’s wrong with having the option? If you screw it up you’ll still suffer. I speculate that skilled players would learn to avoid such a kick, and that it may not be horribly abused if actually implemented. There are several options to balance it, such as stamina cost, cooldown time, heck maybe even reduced knockback / stun time.

    I can see that I’m in the minority. But only due to balance concerns. When it comes to thinking the concept itself of lacking leg control is odd, we’re all on the same page. So then… is that all? Does the community vote “Yeah it doesn’t make sense logically but we’re fine with it due to potential for abuse.” Okay well at least my curiosity is partially sated. I won’t care all that much if it never changes, but I still think it deserves to be tested before a final verdict. It would be fun to try it out in various situations!



  • Archer is quite strong enough without having another way to save themselves in melee range if they don’t weapon swap in time.



  • The only reason I don’t switch weapons in time is the 10 meter charges that leaves me in a “wtf just happend” moment.



  • Surely the reason is to discourage archers from using their primary weapons in melee? They have perfectly good secondary weapons to defend themselves in close quarters. Not a problem in my opinion.



  • OK for the Archer but why can’t the MAA kick when he’s using an Oil Pot ? He can’t sway either, by the way. Is it now possible in that pile of bugs named Chivalry to one-shot someone with an Oil Pot like Archers with their overpowered arrows ? I don’t think so…



  • @Sebangu:

    OK for the Archer but why can’t the MAA kick when he’s using an Oil Pot ? He can’t sway either, by the way. Is it now possible in that pile of bugs named Chivalry to one-shot someone with an Oil Pot like Archers with their overpowered arrows ? I don’t think so…

    You think these fire mages need to kick as well? Fine, you have converted me. MAAs should be able to kick while holding oil pots, but only if they are guaranteed to set themselves on fire in the process. :P


Log in to reply