Why I will not buy Chiv:DW (or: yet another rage story)



  • Hello together.

    I felt, that just raging for myself isn’t that much of helpful, so I chose to give it another try on the forums, maybe sth will actually change this time.

    First of all: I really like the concept your game and I enjoyed it just about 400 hours now. But there also is an issue I just can’t understand. Maybe someone can explain that to me. Why is this game still bugged like sh*t, while you, on the other hand, develop an add-on for it?

    I mean, shouldn’t there be a up and running, good balanced “main” product, if you develop some additional content for that product?

    To get precise and not just flame mindlessly:

    • What is wrong with your hitboxes? I mean… what is still wrong with your hitboxes? Not only the hitboxes of some weapons or players that aren’t there, where the texture is. I also mean statics like some stairs and whatnot.
    • If… no, when you change the stats of weapons - and we all know, you really like to - why don’t you change the bars in the weapon menu? The ones of the Polehammer are still incomplete!
    • It’s not just the bars in the weapon menu that bother me, it’s also the textures. When the reach of a weapon is changed, ffs change the texture as well. How should someone know how far the reach of a weapon is, when the texture shows something entirely else? (Especially that damn Brandistock, this weapon is glitched as f*ck)
    • Balance. How can it be, that a Vanguard is killed by a knight, another vanguard or a MaA(!!!) by two hits? It really bothers me, that the MaA has super fast one-handed weapons, can duck back and forth and kill you in two hits with a damn one-handed axe or sword, while a knight with his fat hammer (if not overheaded) or a vanguard with a two handed sword needs the same amount of hits?. That simply is not what I consider to be “balanced”.

    These are things, that constantly make me go mad, since I consider most of it to be bugs. It just can’t be intentional if a friendly and I (standing about 6ft apart) get killed by one stab from an enemy, standing in front of us, using a brandistock. There are some other minor things like the bars I mentioned or the 25%-90% chat message from the ram on stonehill that pops up all at once.

    These and some other things make me think that your beta testing isn’t worth much and you are only interested in making some money with the add-on, since bugfixing doesn’t seem to interest you. Seems harsh, but just think about it.



  • @Senseless:

    These and some other things make me think that your beta testing isn’t worth much and you are only interested in making some money with the add-on, since bugfixing doesn’t seem to interest you.

    It’s built on the core game, which means they’ll continue working on the same bugs they’re working on now.

    Keep in mind the developers have to get paid to do they’re job, and releasing and selling new products is the only way a company can pay its employees. Game developing is difficult and takes time and lots of patience. The game has been out less than a year, and they don’t have the kind of resources blizzard or bethesda or any of the other giants have that’s required to be so quick about it.

    Try and be patient and enjoy the game as it is for now.



  • @lejosh:

    Keep in mind the developers have to get paid to do they’re job, and releasing and selling new products is the only way a company can pay its employees. Game developing is difficult and takes time and lots of patience. The game has been out less than a year, and they don’t have the kind of resources blizzard or bethesda or any of the other giants have that’s required to be so quick about it.

    Try and be patient and enjoy the game as it is for now.

    Basically this.

    It seems people forget that the studio has to continue to provide food on their tables. One way to go about that is to make an expansion for the game.

    People who assume that they’re working on DW and DW only, has no real idea of what they actually are doing.

    For all we know, DW could be released with a bunch of bug fixes. Considering that DW is built on the same engine, I think it’s safe to say that whatever bugs you can find in CMW, I’m sure they’ve been working on in DW so that way when they release it, everything gets updated.

    You’re not the first person to bring up the bugs and I’m sure you won’t be the last, however I highly doubt that it’s falling on deaf ears. I’m sure they’ve seen already what people have to say and probably even have a bug list that they have been tackling.

    If Chivalry had the team size of most studios then everything would have been done a lot faster but it’s not so they work with the resources and manpower that they do have. It’s just a matter of time and waiting for them to continue to work on this game which they always are.

    I can understand why you’re frustrated but at the same time, you have to understand why things aren’t perfect. The game is pretty good right now, it’s very playable and is enjoyed by many players. So keep playing it and just be patient while patches and other content continue to come out. :)



  • @lejosh:

    Keep in mind the developers have to get paid to do they’re job, and releasing and selling new products is the only way a company can pay its employees. Game developing is difficult and takes time and lots of patience. The game has been out less than a year, and they don’t have the kind of resources blizzard or bethesda or any of the other giants have that’s required to be so quick about it.

    Try and be patient and enjoy the game as it is for now.

    But how many times are they gonna get the pass for that? Something as basic as the server browser has been buggy since the start of the game, played a lot of games before and never seen the server browsers this bad.

    I get it they have a small developing team so we can’t expect much but what exactly are we getting? 2 new maps every year (one is just a remade version of the AoC mod) and 1 patch every 6 months that brings 10x more new problems and fixes maybe one or two of months old bugs? It just really seems like there isn’t much effort going towards the game at all. I mean you still get a broken chat every other game or so where you can’t type all game. Those are simple fixes so if those can’t be fixed then desyncs, correct hit boxes, balancing and so on will never be close to getting fixed ever.

    Now see I don’t care much for it all because I still kinda enjoy the game as is somehow but every patch is makin the game worse and way more clunky then release and it seems to be adding nothing. I mean they could at least drop 5 new maps (for every mode not just some duel mode bs) and guranteed it would keep people busy for a while but no…their main focus is to add all that to ANOTHER game fix up the other game and hope people still will play this one… DW is gonna split the community so take 900 players and split down the middle and tell me that’s enough players to keep either game alive…



  • @Keith:

    For all we know, DW could be released with a bunch of bug fixes. Considering that DW is built on the same engine, I think it’s safe to say that whatever bugs you can find in CMW, I’m sure they’ve been working on in DW so that way when they release it, everything gets updated.

    You’re not the first person to bring up the bugs and I’m sure you won’t be the last, however I highly doubt that it’s falling on deaf ears. I’m sure they’ve seen already what people have to say and probably even have a bug list that they have been tackling.

    Yes. And I’d like to add that TB does an exceptional job listening to the community and providing feedback.

    @yayolol:

    But how many times are they gonna get the pass for that? Something as basic as the server browser has been buggy since the start of the game, played a lot of games before and never seen the server browsers this bad.

    I share your and everyone else’s frustrations about the server browser, desyncs, ghost swings, hit boxes, and all the other most common bugs, and I’m by no means making excuses for the continued problems. I also can’t speak on behalf of the developers nor give you a reason for it. I’m simply putting myself into their shoes as a full time honest blue collar worker and encouraging people to keep some perspective on things. It can be difficult to maintain your patience when it feels like they aren’t listening, don’t care, or otherwise simply ignore obvious problems. So, please understand I’m right with you.

    As of now, I enjoy the hell out of this game. As Keith said, it’s very playable, and many (I dare say most) people enjoy it. Your complaints are valid, and I have faith that in time things will get better. We just have to be patient :)



  • Well, they can take as much time as they need releasing an update but by then most players will have stopped playing. Also, “a lot of players are enjoying it right now” doesn’t really make sense to me, unless you consider 1700 people playing a game not even out for one year a lot. I also kinda like the statements from people here saying that “both games base on the same engine” - this still doesn’t mean that you just have to fix a bug in one game’s source code and then can automatically apply it to the other one. For some bugs this may work, but I assure you this won’t be doable for all.



  • Abandon all hope :D

    IMHO Torn Banner does not know how to fix this whole mess. It’s quite possible that their programmer/s were adding/fixing code “on the fly” creating a lot of ugly, unpolished and not optimized code. This resulted in one big mess that CAN’t be fixed and should be written all over again. From the scratch.

    If simple bugs can’t be fixed by hot fixes in a timely manner and developer is not crystal clear with players about the state of the game, it means they are hiding something…and this is worrisome. Most likely it’s that they are unable to fix it, can’t seem to find the source of the issue or have no idea how to do that.

    Adding to that they seem to be unaware of many exploits and bugs that are in game for MONTHS!! Ridiculous.

    Saying that it is an indie developer and they have no man power to do that…lol. They had all the time in the world to sit and CODE and BALANCE and TEST. They did almost nothing. Sorry but amount of patches throughout this year is a joke.

    Minecraft had more updates and addons and fixes than this.
    Overgrowth has weekly updates in development.
    Starsector had more updates.
    Starmade had more.

    All of those are made by single/few people. Without studio. Without additional expansions too. Made of donations.

    There is nothing that can defend or explain lack of commitment for the flag product.

    All said I will still play this game as long as I will have someone to play with. I love it, core conept and mechanics are revolutionary and one of a kind. It’s niche opening game with more of simmilar to come. It would be shame to loose the crown in that fasion…

    Torn Banner get your sh*t together, remedy the most annoying bugs, add content or at LEAST give us SDK. It is almost to late.



  • @Shellshock:

    Well, they can take as much time as they need releasing an update but by then most players will have stopped playing. Also, “a lot of players are enjoying it right now” doesn’t really make sense to me, unless you consider 1700 people playing a game not even out for one year a lot.

    What I mean by this is the game is in good enough shape to keep what I consider to be a lot of players on board.

    @Ciastooh:

    Saying that it is an indie developer and they have no man power to do that…lol. They had all the time in the world to sit and CODE and BALANCE and TEST. They did almost nothing. Sorry but amount of patches throughout this year is a joke.

    Minecraft had more updates and addons and fixes than this.
    Overgrowth has weekly updates in development.
    Starsector had more updates.
    Starmade had more.

    All of those are made by single/few people. Without studio. Without additional expansions too. Made of donations.

    There is nothing that can defend or explain lack of commitment for the flag product.

    Fair point. And again, I’m not making excuses for them.

    I think our differences of opinion come from the varying degrees of expectation, and willingness/ability to adapt. I paid $25 for a multiplayer only indie game after reading some bad reviews about it. I know how reviews go, and I was still intrigued by the concept, so I tried it out anyway. I figured it wouldn’t be completely broken and unplayable as some so dramatically put it. Granted, there were plenty of bugs to warrant a generally negative review, I still got completely hooked on it.

    IMHO the game is still insanely fun. I suppose it’s just not that important to me to have a perfectly polished product, or at least one up to the standard most people seem to be holding it. I never expected it from the start. I’ve learned to adapt to the bugs and let it slide off my back when stupid things happen. For now, my judgement and expectations will remain suspended until I see what DW and future updates have to offer. I think this approach is ideal, because I never feel like my fun is spoiled.

    One final note: I only have about 30 minutes to an hour per day to play, so I think this has a lot to do with my overly passive position.



  • @Senseless:

    To get precise and not just flame mindlessly:

    • What is wrong with your hitboxes? I mean… what is still wrong with your hitboxes? Not only the hitboxes of some weapons or players that aren’t there, where the texture is. I also mean statics like some stairs and whatnot.
    • If… no, when you change the stats of weapons - and we all know, you really like to - why don’t you change the bars in the weapon menu? The ones of the Polehammer are still incomplete!
    • It’s not just the bars in the weapon menu that bother me, it’s also the textures. When the reach of a weapon is changed, ffs change the texture as well. How should someone know how far the reach of a weapon is, when the texture shows something entirely else? (Especially that damn Brandistock, this weapon is glitched as f*ck)

    This. The other stuff too, but especially this.
    And this:

    file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Steam/userdata/86942639/760/remote/219640/screenshots/2013-09-16_00001.jpg

    (taken during peak hours)



  • @ArchimedesWithASword:

    C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Steam/userdata/86942639/760/remote/219640/screenshots/2013-09-16_00001.jpg

    You know we can’t see your pic if you just give its local adress on your computeur, right ?..… You know you have to upload the file online first, right ?.. So, you should do that first and then we will be able to see and comment your picture. Thanks.

    TBS is doooomed !!! Spending all their time on DW isn’t going to fix MW. Of course, the original game isn’t perfect. But there’s a big difference between some issues and a whole pathetic mess : Random hitboxes, missing textures, ugly animations, crappy mechanic, weird balance, framrate drop, … ALL THOSE THINGS SHOULD BE REWORKED !

    Let’s stop rage at them. They have been rather incompetent since January, we all know that. And now, they remain silent. Do you need more proofs about their laxity ? They just don’t care about us anymore. That’s all. The best part being “wait for the SDK” which imply “the Community will do what we didn’t”. That’s just horrible and offensive. Pitiful TBS.



  • BWHAHAHAHAHA. Man. I love when people with no computer skills think they know what they are doing.



  • Nah, bro, that was a misclick, I know the difference between a link and a local address…
    need to look stuff over more before I post :D .
    It was a picture of the server browser at about 4PM eastern, every server with 0/whatever, and then one with 64/64.



  • @Senseless:

    • What is wrong with your hitboxes? I mean …

    A problem that haunts the game since release. We should probably flood the forums with reports where the hitboxes suck and make a list. Better than saying “Hitboxes are off - fix asap!”
    @Senseless:

    • If… no, when you change the stats of weapons…

    Those are completely wrong for quite some time. A shame.
    @Senseless:

    • It’s not just the bars in the weapon menu that bother me…

    Brandistock reach was changed? Anyways: the weapons hitbox extends over its full length. Thats why a weapon that is barely scratching you still deals the full amount of damage.
    @Senseless:

    • Balance

    Your argument here has not much to do with balance. Why is “Vanguards can be killed with two hits by each class” not balanced? Please consider more factors.



  • @Evil:

    @Senseless:

    • What is wrong with your hitboxes? I mean …

    A problem that haunts the game since release. We should probably flood the forums with reports where the hitboxes suck and make a list. Better than saying “Hitboxes are off - fix asap!”

    That would be hard to specify, wouldn’t it? Especially since it seems to be highly ping dependent and this issue isn’t 100% “reproductable”.

    @Evil:

    @Senseless:

    • If… no, when you change the stats of weapons…

    Those are completely wrong for quite some time. A shame.

    Only a minor problem. But yes, a shame since it really is easy to fix.

    @Evil:

    @Senseless:

    • It’s not just the bars in the weapon menu that bother me…

    Brandistock reach was changed? Anyways: the weapons hitbox extends over its full length. Thats why a weapon that is barely scratching you still deals the full amount of damage.

    Don’t focus that much on the Brandistock, it was just an example for multiple weapons. Still, if I see a weapon, stop one ft. in front of my face and still get the full damage, sth is really wrong here.
    btw, I think it would be a good idea to reduce the damage done by weapons, if you stand behind the player that was dealing damage, to about 30-50%. Seems more logical to me, to deal more damage by swinging in front of you, than swinging behind you.

    @Evil:

    @Senseless:

    • Balance

    Your argument here has not much to do with balance. Why is “Vanguards can be killed with two hits by each class” not balanced? Please consider more factors.

    I thought that someone might misunderstand my statement there ;) The problem is not that Vanguards are killed by two hits from every class, the problem is that he gets killed by two hits of either a 1-handed weapon (MaA) or a 2-handed weapon (Polearms/2H Swords - Vanguard or 2H-Axe/Hammer/Sword - Knight). You need to see the damage ratio between the 1-handed sword/axe the MaA uses and the 2-handed Swords/Hammer/Axe/Polearms/whatever a Vanguard or Knight uses. Why should I use a larger but slower weapon, that does slightly more damage, if I could use a super-fast 1-handed axe/sword, that does less damage but still kill you with the same amount of hits?



  • Your username is pretty fitting :lol:

    1. Hitboxes are fine. been playing 450+ hours and never really had a problem with them.

    2. Really? You’re complaining about that? hahahaha

    3. I believe the animations are changed when the reach of a weapon is.

    4. Vanguards are the primary offense class. It makes sense that they’re not very tanky. I’d say right now the only thing unbalanced in this game is MAA in 1v1.



  • @Event:

    Your username is pretty fitting :lol:

    I think so, because it hardly seems to make any sense to report those issues…

    @Event:

    1. Hitboxes are fine. been playing 450+ hours and never really had a problem with them.

    So? I also played ~410 hours and experienced it many times that the hitboxes aren’t there, where the textures are. Sometimes enemies hit me clearly (or vice versa) by the texture but the hitbox just goes “screw you, I’m out” and nothing happens at all.

    @Event:

    1. Really? You’re complaining about that? hahahaha

    Yeah. It is nothing critical, but nevertheless it is annoying to see something simple like this unfixed for months.

    @Event:

    1. I believe the animations are changed when the reach of a weapon is.

    Might be, but still, as also said several times now: hitbox != texture.

    @Event:

    1. Vanguards are the primary offense class. It makes sense that they’re not very tanky. I’d say right now the only thing unbalanced in this game is MAA in 1v1.

    It’s not about any classes or weapons in this one. It is about the ratio of damage dealt by a weapon in comparison to its speed etc. Especially if you compare the mentioned main weapons for MaA’s and Vanguards/Knights. It just doesn’t seem logical to me, to see a see a MaA jumping around like a madman, stabbing everyone with 2-3 hits, just like a heavier class could do. Hope you get what I try to say.


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