Why do people think that Men-At-Arms are OP?



  • :o

    I play MAA mainly, I pick other classes only for lolz. I’m not bad I guess, but far from good (seing what Rumpel does).

    I play a lot of duels in which I meet a lot of high level knights and Vans that are a challenge to me. Can’t say I am dominating them, this are more or less balanced fights.
    Pole arm or Claymore Vans are harder for me than most of MaA.
    Fighting good knight with messer or Van with Zwei is hard too as I can’t get hit AT ALL and parring puts me on the loosing position in stamina war.
    Melee archers are easier to kill unless they use javs which changes the nature of a duel dramatically.

    Some of knight and Van players that I meet regularly are learning and adapting to my tactics and it is constant struggle to outsmart them…and it is still balanced.

    In team plays I often find myself unable to deal with more than 2-3 opponents so it is nothing OP here as I am on par with other classes. Sometimes I can pull epic fights and kill 3-4 guys but only if they suck really one better more experienced guy in the fray and I might get killed suddenly as he predicted my move and one hit in those situations equals horrible painful death in most cases.

    I have little experience with Clan 5v5 and 2v2 but even there it’s nothing close to being OP as team play and coordination plays bigger role.

    So please tell me what is OP about this class. Give me specifics.
    Hopefully some ultra leet uber pro owning godlike MaA out there can tell me? Cause I really don’t seem to grasp this (it seems) common knowladge. ;)



  • MAA IS IMBA BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING SPELLS:

    1. TELEPORT
    2. FIREBALL

    :x



  • MaA is fundamentally broken in 1v1 because of backdodge and no counter to it and extremely low skill cap (in Duels).

    However it takes alot of skill to play them in team modes, most people just refer to MaA’s ridicoulus 1v1 abilities which are indeed op.



  • I’m not going to tell you that MaA is OP. I’m not sure, perhaps it is in duel mode but probably not in team games.

    Are you high level, or at least about the same level as the knights and vans you play?

    Also what is your weapon setup and play style?

    I personally get annoyed fighting MaA that drag thrusts with the broadsword, basically because it’s so boring. It seems half of all duels are MaA thrusting with the broadsword and the other half are vans with the claymore, more or less.


  • Mod

    Favorite load-out for MAA which is my second favorite class to play is
    Quarterstaff, Hunting Knife and throwing knives.

    I think that playing MAA is as challenging and skill based as any other class.
    I agree on the subject of the dodge mechanic giving the MAA a very strong and easy advantage- and that a-lot of players abuse that. But I will also point the same to the players who have not yet taken considerate attention to dealing with those Dodge to Stab/Chop MAA. That method seems to be very popular among a-lot of the MAA players I encounter on the official servers and my solution is walking backwards. Sometimes I don’t even have to block.

    Otherwise the circle-around-enemy dodge MAA are also easy to counter if you aim your attack towards their dodge direction. Technically I’ve noticed that players who dodge seem to have the same pattern in their dodge (similar to how you read a feint or a drag) Good archers will know what I am talking about here perhaps- My point here is that a-lot of players get an easy time with dodging that they allow themselves a lax routine and lets that routine become a habit and sink in to a point where they are tripping their own feet. - Study their routine and their preferred attacks and I believe you would find that these players are as readable as any other class, except the pace is different.



  • i disagree with one thing some people say, that they are more balanced in team modes. I play using and against the men at arms a lot now in both duel and TO… and i don’t really see a significant lack of power in team matches. With the speed you can easily stay out of the fray of battle and come in at your choice, a lot of fights turn into 1v1’s anyway in team, and even if you see a group, situational awareness can keep you out of getting double teamed easily, and you can usually always retreat if necessary. They are a very good ninja attacker/distraction in a group fight. Maa can draw an attack, and dodge away and let their team kind of plug away at the enemy due to their missed strike or what have you, then come right back in and pick up on any mistakes they are making. The only thing that truly gives me issue in TO is archers, but that’s really any class and it’s only when i’m actually in a fight getting shot at where i can’t focus on dodging arrows at the same time.

    In 1v1… they’re not totally overpowered there either or truly unfair, but it has a smaller learning curve than say a knight or even decent vanguards i would say, just because of the ability to backdodge and use simple poke attacks only to destroy an enemy and get around their parries easily for most even matches. There are certain weapons however like HWS, and Quarterstaff that are certainly pretty powerful, would i say OP? nah probably just the HWS but then again it takes a good maa to handle that shorter weapon better, even being the fastest thing on the planet. Good daggar maa can be annoying as well, even an archer can be pretty annoying flinching anything you throw and combos hitting one after another because you cannot recover from flinch at times.

    The only REAL issue with them right now is being able to dodge out of stun, and flinch not occuring during the dodge at times either, allowing counter attacks during their getting hit.

    Would i say the class is OP? nah… I’d just say that it takes a bit more effort to fight them than most classes.

    But take a knight with a shield and norse sword, that’s pretty damn powerful, but there are counters to it… albeit very hard to cope with though.

    Even vanguards can be frustrating with super reach of brandi plus their still insane knockback and fast slash… there’s still counter to all of this.

    Archers are certainly frustrating being able to hit from across the map, and then when you close in finish you off with lightning fast pokes. But…

    Really it’s about playstyle and knowing more than one playstyle and adapting according to your opponents playstyle to overcome it. Sometimes it takes a few tries, sometimes many but if ya play enough… it will come.

    I don’t personally like OP talk because it leads to things getting nerfed and bugged.



  • On a pub TO server where everyone is just a lone wolf they’re still quite strong. Roving bands of 3 or 4 MAA are pretty badass too.



  • @dudeface:

    On a pub TO server where everyone is just a lone wolf they’re still quite strong. Roving bands of 3 or 4 MAA are pretty badass too.

    oh hell yeah, a tight group of maa are pretty fucking unstoppable, especially if they’re all skilled.

    throwing knives and firepots and pokes, OH MY!



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    i disagree with one thing some people say, that they are more balanced in team modes. I play using and against the men at arms a lot now in both duel and TO… and i don’t really see a significant lack of power in team matches. With the speed you can easily stay out of the fray of battle and come in at your choice, a lot of fights turn into 1v1’s anyway in team, and even if you see a group, situational awareness can keep you out of getting double teamed easily, and you can usually always retreat if necessary. They are a very good ninja attacker/distraction in a group fight. Maa can draw an attack, and dodge away and let their team kind of plug away at the enemy due to their missed strike or what have you, then come right back in and pick up on any mistakes they are making. The only thing that truly gives me issue in TO is archers, but that’s really any class and it’s only when i’m actually in a fight getting shot at where i can’t focus on dodging arrows at the same time.

    In 1v1… they’re not totally overpowered there either or truly unfair, but it has a smaller learning curve than say a knight or even decent vanguards i would say, just because of the ability to backdodge and use simple poke attacks only to destroy an enemy and get around their parries easily for most even matches. There are certain weapons however like HWS, and Quarterstaff that are certainly pretty powerful, would i say OP? nah probably just the HWS but then again it takes a good maa to handle that shorter weapon better, even being the fastest thing on the planet. Good daggar maa can be annoying as well, even an archer can be pretty annoying flinching anything you throw and combos hitting one after another because you cannot recover from flinch at times.

    The only REAL issue with them right now is being able to dodge out of stun, and flinch not occuring during the dodge at times either, allowing counter attacks during their getting hit.

    Would i say the class is OP? nah… I’d just say that it takes a bit more effort to fight them than most classes.

    But take a knight with a shield and norse sword, that’s pretty damn powerful, but there are counters to it… albeit very hard to cope with though.

    Even vanguards can be frustrating with super reach of brandi plus their still insane knockback and fast slash… there’s still counter to all of this.

    Archers are certainly frustrating being able to hit from across the map, and then when you close in finish you off with lightning fast pokes. But…

    Really it’s about playstyle and knowing more than one playstyle and adapting according to your opponents playstyle to overcome it. Sometimes it takes a few tries, sometimes many but if ya play enough… it will come.

    I don’t personally like OP talk because it leads to things getting nerfed and bugged.

    MaA vs MaA is fine in duels lol, but MaA vs knight is a pretty unfair matchup



  • the only maa that gives me constant trouble in duels is kwazi over here in the america’s. I even streamed the other day and there was a dude with qstaff steaming my beans, he won one fight then i learned to counter it. It’s a pretty unfair matchup but still do-able. I never said it was even grounds, i def think the maa has superior advantage to knights, but the class as a whole isn’t really OP though… right?

    idk you europenis know more than us american’s though, LoL



  • If I fight kwazi as a maa, I’d be lucky to win once time in ten duels as knight. On the other hand, if he plays any other class, it’s closer to 50/50. Sure he’s probably not as experienced in other classes, but that doesn’t account for such a large gap.

    Now, that’s only on absolutely top end, best of the best maa. Average to good maa I can deal with without much problem, but I feel my skill has to be a good deal greater than the man at arms player for me to be consistently beating them. Even just being slightly better than any other class player, would let me win more than 50 / 50.

    That said, all of this is speaking about duels, which the game is not focused on. Maa is fine in team modes.



  • The thing is, you can beat the best knights and vanguards in duels, but the best MAAs are untouchable.



  • In 1 on 1 situations man-at-arms has the upper hand: he can force you to attack, dodge out (and in) and hit you, possibly throwing in a combo that is tricky to block or parry. The best option is to keep him at a distance (if you have long weapon) and aim in a place he’ll be likely to dodge, to land strike onto him. Other than that you should play as part of the team as overwhelm him by attacking from multiple directions. To me man-at-arms is a primary target, then I want to kill vanguards, then knights. Archers are top priority if they’re close.



  • i like to keep them nice and close, maa ya just have to be able to parry VERY well, but i agree with radiant though… MOST maa aren’t as good as kwazi, so against him i’d say ill actually be more like 1-30 in duels against the HWS… i’ve fought him other classes though and i do much better but HWS i can’t touch it. We had a scrim with the kendo style duels and he killed the whole team.

    half ass maa’s are easy to beat, good ones take a lot more being on top of your game than anything and not making any mistakes, they can make a ton of them.


  • Mod

    @clayton-bigsby:

    …I don’t personally like OP talk because it leads to things getting nerfed and bugged.



  • @Ciastooh:

    :o

    I play MAA mainly, I pick other classes only for lolz. I’m not bad I guess, but far from good (seing what Rumpel does).

    I play a lot of duels in which I meet a lot of high level knights and Vans that are a challenge to me. Can’t say I am dominating them, this are more or less balanced fights.
    Pole arm or Claymore Vans are harder for me than most of MaA.
    Fighting good knight with messer or Van with Zwei is hard too as I can’t get hit AT ALL and parring puts me on the loosing position in stamina war.
    Melee archers are easier to kill unless they use javs which changes the nature of a duel dramatically.

    Some of knight and Van players that I meet regularly are learning and adapting to my tactics and it is constant struggle to outsmart them…and it is still balanced.

    In team plays I often find myself unable to deal with more than 2-3 opponents so it is nothing OP here as I am on par with other classes. Sometimes I can pull epic fights and kill 3-4 guys but only if they suck really one better more experienced guy in the fray and I might get killed suddenly as he predicted my move and one hit in those situations equals horrible painful death in most cases.

    I have little experience with Clan 5v5 and 2v2 but even there it’s nothing close to being OP as team play and coordination plays bigger role.

    So please tell me what is OP about this class. Give me specifics.
    Hopefully some ultra leet uber pro owning godlike MaA out there can tell me? Cause I really don’t seem to grasp this (it seems) common knowladge. ;)

    People think that because their butts hurt.

    Yes, there are bugs with the dodge and stuff, but they are bugs. Bugs don’t make a class OP.

    Some are annoyed by the backdodge. I don’t know why. Yes it can be frustrating for you if the maa dodges out of the reach of even the longest weapon, but c’mon! It consumes a good amount of stamina and the maa NEEDS something to save his own butt, because his health is pretty low. Not as low as the archer-health, but it’s low. The maa is meant to be best in 1v1. And that’s what he is now. But he’s defeatable. Especially when he’s outnumbered. Not even a good maa gets out of a 1v2 if the two enemies aren’t full retards. Simple tactic: Flank him. He’ll be screwed. Not even the dodge will save him. It will only make his life about 2 secs longer.

    In every and every cry-thread about maa, someone tries to tell these people that the game isn’t balanced after duels. But it looks like the maa-haters skillfully skip those posts.

    And this is me, a vanguard, saying! The maa is my second worst enemy. The archer is my biggest, but the maa comes right after him. His speed makes him frustrating to fight with my longer, but slower weapons. And my secondaries… they are effective against him, but I suck with them ;D.

    So all I can tell you maa-players is:
    Please don’t use the dodge-out-of-stun bug and the insane jump+kick-10m-fly-bug (if it hasn’t been fixed already, I’m not seeing it used anymore)
    And most important: Let the people you defeated cry and just don’t respond to their flaming and crying (I know it’s harder than it sounds).



  • Stamina is irrelevant in the hands of a good Maa. Backwards movement is almost as fast as a knights sprint, and of course they can just turn around to run away, get distance and recover stamina. If they feel the need to do so.

    A man at arms controls the flow of the fight, completely. You fight when the man at arms wants you to. You’re always playing on their terms, it’s a significant advantage. Yet, only in duels can this really be applied very effectively.



  • @Dr:

    Are you high level, or at least about the same level as the knights and vans you play?

    Also what is your weapon setup and play style?

    Level 49 (+6 due to a level bug) 800+ hrs.
    Most knights/vans are about the same level some lower.
    I play norse+pot. Never use secondary. Play style? I dodge a lot. I spin a lot. I run a lot. Single hits unless I see wide opening for combo. Sometimes simple feint to spice things up.
    I love to do all kind of idiocy though. Jump 360 swings. 180 OH. Riposte 180 OH. Back swing hits. Jump stabs Achilles style ;). Dodge in all directions laughing madly :D

    Standard Maa I guess.

    Exploits being exploits, I never use dodge out of stam stun. If I do, I stand still and let them kill me. Played a little with Superjump but it’s for kids and not really useful in fight.

    Might it be that it is not the Man-At-Arms being broken, but mechanic or other class not good enough? Like cftp…back then knights didn’t complain about maa so much. Or chase mechanic working in 360 radius?

    But at the end of the day it is good to hear constructive talk and see that not all community is against maa.



  • @Ciastooh:

    Why do people think that Men-At-Arms are OP ?

    Because they’re dumbasses ? People saying that always are people who never played MAA at high level.

    OP because of “teleport” and “fireball” ? Okay… What about Knight’s Super Armor, Archer’s Super Arrow and Vanguard’s Super Charge ? The sway is our core skill and the oil pot only do 35 DMG, holy sh*t !



  • @Peter:

    The maa is meant to be best in 1v1. And that’s what he is now. But he’s defeatable. Especially when he’s outnumbered.

    Huh?

    Backdodge kind of in combination with broadsword/norse-sword range and speed are the problems IMO. Backdodge would be fine on its own with a dane axe or whatever, but when that MAA comes back at you with what feels like a 1her claymore, that’s when I have issues playing against them.

    In NZ/Aus I swear 80% of MAA are using a broadsword these days, so sick of that weapon.


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