So…



  • after playing for a while on dw… pretty much theres a half hour left of the test, i’ve been on the whole time.

    I told you in melee before spears would be very powerful if they could combo, no doubt. Theres one spear in particular that has so much range no one can even get within range half the time, in team battles, i don’t even need to parry whatsoever.

    Pirates, my god, just take them out of the game, they ruin combat. Any team of pirates will truly own the game, with blunderbuss, i dont care how much ammo they have, they can form a line and never miss and all the melee just drop like flies… it takes the fun out of a game where people truly enjoy melee combat, and it turns it into a fps vs. melee… kind of how you guys have done with modern warfare, oh excuse me medieval warfare ahem. It feels like you’re in the movie the last samurai running in against gattling guns. I used the blunder myself, and it requires like 0 skill to hit anything, it’s so easy, and with a group of pirates, which the game will turn out to be many pirates and some melee vs melee, a terrible idea there, really bad.

    The no flinch thing, i don’t know if flinch exists but for right now it doesn’t seem to exist for certain classes, allowing them to run around just swinging, really turns the whole game into a hack and slash vs. a somewhat skillful game, id rather see some skil implemented than just see people slashing around because “that’s what works”

    animation of attacks is so deceptive as well, in chivalry at least you kind of know whats coming… but take the spear for example comboing or doing overhead, the animatino starts as a regular thrust, but then overheads at the last moment… how can you judge as a defender looking up or down? i was using spear weapons all day and just felt bad for my opponents, not for myself. Then with the triple thrust combo… 2v1 spear is practically impossible. I do like the team aspect, but spartans, or spear samurai totally kil that because they never need to parry, ever. In addition, the spartan shield combos have the hardest parry imaginable, i may have parried 1-2 shield combos the entire time, and i have no idea where to parry on them, the animatino shows them coming form one directino, but the tracers obviously are nowhere near the animation.

    Vikings… pretty damn useless if you ask me, the duel wielding aspect is cool looking i guess for those that care, but in combat they are utterly useless againt spear pokes, ninjas, samurai… i never once felt threatened by them… why? i don’t know they just suck ass.

    Ninja, barrel roll is okay i guess… and i’m glad it’s not as shitty as maa dodge, the 1st person animation kind of sucks, and it’s practically useless against spear weapons again, because i’ll just hit them while they roll or drag my swings. Same thinga bout any other weapon, the roll is like a death sentence basically. But ninja are actually still pretty powerful if you learn them, and the weapons seem good… so it’s one of the classes i think are pretty well balanced.

    I think though if you leave pirates in the game, and the way they are, it will truly ruin the game… any objective or team based mode will revolve around how many pirates you have with blunderpusses/pistols… and just melee revolving aorund them to defend… once anyone even gets close… it’s an easy finish by melee, or even the pirates own melee. take Medieveal warfere into account. you have nothing but light crossbow and other archers, go into a TO match you see 7-10 archers per team, and as a melee guy, you stand little chance of survival. 1.) because they do so much damage in general that even before you get into a fight you’re practially dead… and 2.) even if you get into melee and fight your way through 3-4 opponents… an arrow is waiting for you right at the last blow… takes a lot of fun out of a game that’s meant to be a melee game, and not a first person shooter.

    You’re combining a melee game with too many first person shooter aspects, to where… if you had the choice… which do you think would work out better.

    Some have said already that it feels like you’re in the movie : the last samurai… where they ran into gattling guns and other various gunpowder weapons… who do you think is going to win that fight? I know in the movie the ones with guns did. Maybe take an example and stop trying to mix the two.

    You guys made an awesome melee game with the best mechanics i’ve ever seen in a melee game, but you’re ruining your own idea by trying to mix two times of games together, why? please stop this madness… you have potential of a great game that many can enjoy, but you’re ruining it in many ways as medieval warfare has kind of gotten to the point of.

    I love medieveal warfare, the game used to be so fluid and full of skillful melee battles, and now it’s just trying to dodge arrows and dying when someone holds still in the background behind melee just firing 99 damage arrows at you. Deadliest warrior will be the same with pirates shooting at you in groups where you cannot possibly penetrate all their gunfire. It doesn’t even take much skill to aim, you basically gave them a ranged shotgun with buckshot, and close up they will 1 shot to the head or sometimes even torso…

    Think about it please…



  • Yo ho, yo ho, a pirate’s life for me.



  • I’m with Clayton on the Pirate aspects, being able to one shot any class with a shotgun shouldn’t be there 8-)



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    Pirates, my god, just take them out of the game, they ruin combat. Any team of pirates will truly own the game, with blunderbuss, i dont care how much ammo they have, they can form a line and never miss and all the melee just drop like flies… it takes the fun out of a game where people truly enjoy melee combat, and it turns it into a fps vs. melee… kind of how you guys have done with modern warfare, oh excuse me medieval warfare ahem. It feels like you’re in the movie the last samurai running in against gattling guns. I used the blunder myself, and it requires like 0 skill to hit anything, it’s so easy, and with a group of pirates, which the game will turn out to be many pirates and some melee vs melee, a terrible idea there, really bad.

    I don’t know about removing the class, but there needs to be a fun and skillful way to counter bullets, like bullet parrying.

    It’s also ridiculous that the class that least needs HP, gets a huge self-heal. It heals something like 80% life. Everyone should have access to that heal.



  • As someone who plays the pirate its damn hard to hit anyone with Anything. The spread is huge.

    and the pistole is mostly down to luck over 10 metres.



  • @lemonater47:

    As someone who plays the pirate its damn hard to hit anyone with Anything. The spread is huge.

    and the pistole is mostly down to luck over 10 metres.

    I’ve been sniping players with the pistole, try crouching. There is also some bullet drop to compensate for, but not much. Only a small bit of horizontal deviation when crouched, and sometimes that actually helps me hit a moving target.

    Pirate so far, is easiest for me to get kills with. Significant damage, quick reload, and I can move while reloading. Also his boarding axe is a weapon of mass destruction.



  • @Gauntlet:

    @lemonater47:

    As someone who plays the pirate its damn hard to hit anyone with Anything. The spread is huge.

    and the pistole is mostly down to luck over 10 metres.

    I’ve been sniping players with the pistole, try crouching. There is also some bullet drop to compensate for, but not much. Only a small bit of horizontal deviation when crouched, and sometimes that actually helps me hit a moving target.

    Pirate so far, is easiest for me to get kills with. Significant damage, quick reload, and I can move while reloading. Also his boarding axe is a weapon of mass destruction.

    Th boarding axe is a bit OP.



  • They are not finished by far with balanced tweaks, and I feel like pirate and sarissa are both going to be revisited. Though I think the issues people have with them are largely exaggerated by confirmation bias.

    The pirate is not OP so much as the blunderbuss is (mostly it’s ability to stun, and slightly too much damage.), and the sarissa combo speeds appear to be vastly inconsistent. (I’d like to see the sarissa’s knockback be toned down, and it’s combo speeds adjusted.)

    With the knockback lowered, you would see a reason for sarissa spartans to have to switch to their sword, which arguably they should do in a 1 v 1, as the sarissa appears to be the single best melee support weapon at this point.

    To the new people playing, it was only a patch ago that the viking 2h hammer had broadsword timings. I suspect they will fix things, but rather are working on the game at a more macro level, though I do think the balance is what will make or break the longevity of the game.



  • @Derpasaur:

    […]and the sarissa combo speeds appear to be vastly inconsistent. (I’d like to see the sarissa’s knockback be toned down, and it’s combo speeds adjusted.)

    With the knockback lowered, you would see a reason for sarissa spartans to have to switch to their sword, which arguably they should do in a 1 v 1, as the sarissa appears to be the single best melee support weapon at this point.

    […]

    I’d like to see it keep its combo times and everything else, it feels just right except for:

    @Daiyuki:

    I have more of a problem with the current iteration of the Sarissa and that is because it is far too draggable, in the bad way. I love drags, but a very long spear like that should not be able to do a 180 stab.

    My solution would be to severely limit the x-axis of the attack once it has started, because then you could do effective Sarissa spearwall formations and keep the enemy at bay, but 1v1 or simply if an enemy gets close, you would need to switch to your secondary, which is exactly how a weapon like that operated. Its combo speed, reach and damage are all stellar and I would not even mind a damage buff if the x-axis gets limited to almost nothing to compensate.

    Basically, a spear like the Sarissa gets stabbed forward, and that’s it. You can’t change its angle on the fly or twist it around however you like because it’s about 5m long (which is like 15 feet or something, I don’t know) or at least that’s how long it looks in-game. They could actually be longer irl, or shorter, but the principle is the same: changing its trajectory just is not a thing, you’d lose all your thrusting power if you tried to swing it around with your arms to adjust your aim.



  • @Daiyuki:

    @Derpasaur:

    […]and the sarissa combo speeds appear to be vastly inconsistent. (I’d like to see the sarissa’s knockback be toned down, and it’s combo speeds adjusted.)

    With the knockback lowered, you would see a reason for sarissa spartans to have to switch to their sword, which arguably they should do in a 1 v 1, as the sarissa appears to be the single best melee support weapon at this point.

    […]

    I’d like to see it keep its combo times and everything else, it feels just right except for:

    @Daiyuki:

    I have more of a problem with the current iteration of the Sarissa and that is because it is far too draggable, in the bad way. I love drags, but a very long spear like that should not be able to do a 180 stab.

    My solution would be to severely limit the x-axis of the attack once it has started, because then you could do effective Sarissa spearwall formations and keep the enemy at bay, but 1v1 or simply if an enemy gets close, you would need to switch to your secondary, which is exactly how a weapon like that operated. Its combo speed, reach and damage are all stellar and I would not even mind a damage buff if the x-axis gets limited to almost nothing to compensate.

    Basically, a spear like the Sarissa gets stabbed forward, and that’s it. You can’t change its angle on the fly or twist it around however you like because it’s about 5m long (which is like 15 feet or something, I don’t know) or at least that’s how long it looks in-game. They could actually be longer irl, or shorter, but the principle is the same: changing its trajectory just is not a thing, you’d lose all your thrusting power if you tried to swing it around with your arms to adjust your aim.

    If you were trying to account for this (How far do you want to go with realism?) you could shorten the release and lengthen the combo times to compensate. However, you might take the fun aspect out of using it by going in that direction. Also by speeding up release, you allow the user to extend his tracer out even faster. I think it would be pretty annoying to use in a game with so much movement if you made it more or less a straight unmovable shot.



  • Another option would be to reduce the turn speed specifically on sarissa. But that brings up inconsistency issues.



  • Since spears have combos they now have access to extremely good feints + combofeints with incredible range at their disposal. Some spears (most?) can be dragged with great effect.



  • @kwazi:

    Since spears have combos they now have access to extremely good feints + combofeints with incredible range at their disposal. Some spears (most?) can be dragged with great effect.

    I Find these spears to be less draggabble than CMW spears and javs.

    Spartan is very good at 1v1 combat. Though with the sarrisa he can be overwhelmed. A feint can mean a smart attacker will walk forwards meaning that his attack after the feint will do less damage and now his opponent is in range.

    Though people haven’t quite adapted yet to do that. That’s what I would do.



  • @Derpasaur:

    Another option would be to reduce the turn speed specifically on sarissa. But that brings up inconsistency issues.

    That’s exactly what I am saying. And what do you mean inconsistency, it’s a completely different weapon to the shorter spears and swords the Spartan carries, it should not behave in any way similar to them. Right now it’s a pike that has the same mobility as a short spear, which is silly.



  • @lemonater47:

    @kwazi:

    A feint can mean a smart attacker will walk forwards meaning that his attack after the feint will do less damage and now his opponent is in range.

    That would be fine but as far as I’ve seen, they removed the blue tracers from stab attacks, and green tracers do almost the same damage as red (very little difference). At least for other weapons I’ve noticed stab no longer has blue tracers, which is quite bothersome because a stab is the best attack in the game for range and for face hugging (to drag around the parry box).



  • The spear combos are really really broken.

    It’s basically Chivalry: Medieval Warfare release combo feints

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVpVKMB1rE

    When someone with a spear misses he can just combo and flinch you most of the time when you try to go in for the attack after his miss.

    Spears are already strong as hell in CMW, with the introduction of combos on them they just removed their last weakness. If they stay i will predict a massive use of spears in the comp scene, already saw that yesterday, spears + pirates everywhere.



  • @Daiyuki:

    @Derpasaur:

    Another option would be to reduce the turn speed specifically on sarissa. But that brings up inconsistency issues.

    That’s exactly what I am saying. And what do you mean inconsistency, it’s a completely different weapon to the shorter spears and swords the Spartan carries, it should not behave in any way similar to them. Right now it’s a pike that has the same mobility as a short spear, which is silly.

    It would be the only weapon in the game to have a different turnspeed as far as I know :P, not just spears.

    In the end, it might be the best thing short of redoing the animations, though. Additionally, they could make it so green tracers scale proportionately down to 20-25% for stabs (So they would do 20 for a very early or very late hit, while progressively doing more damage closer to the sweet spot.) This would also make sense for the sarissa, as you could forseeably drag it out in the fashion you describe, it just would carry no force.

    Ideally, knockback should scale as well. With scaling down to 25 percent (Down from I believe 75%), along with a very minor speed and knockback reduction, I feel like it would be balanced.

    @CRUSHED:

    When someone with a spear misses he can just combo and flinch you most of the time when you try to go in for the attack after his miss.

    There’s a number of combos in the game that exhibit this behavior, as well as combos that will hit you almost guaranteed in parry recovery if they whiff the first attack. (I’m lookin’ at you, ninja claws and spartan shield.)

    They may be essentially trying to replace feint openers with whiff baits? Would be an interesting (and scary) design choice.



  • @Derpasaur:

    @Daiyuki:

    @Derpasaur:

    Another option would be to reduce the turn speed specifically on sarissa. But that brings up inconsistency issues.

    That’s exactly what I am saying. And what do you mean inconsistency, it’s a completely different weapon to the shorter spears and swords the Spartan carries, it should not behave in any way similar to them. Right now it’s a pike that has the same mobility as a short spear, which is silly.

    It would be the only weapon in the game to have a different turnspeed as far as I know :P, not just spears.

    In the end, it might be the best thing short of redoing the animations, though. Additionally, they could make it so green tracers scale proportionately down to 20-25% for stabs (So they would do 20 for a very early or very late hit, while progressively doing more damage closer to the sweet spot.) This would also make sense for the sarissa, as you could forseeably drag it out in the fashion you describe, it just would carry no force.

    Ideally, knockback should scale as well. With scaling down to 25 percent (Down from I believe 75%), along with a very minor speed and knockback reduction, I feel like it would be balanced.

    […]

    It would be the only melee weapon in the game with a 15-foot reach too. That’s what I am saying, pikes are not close combat, 1v1 weapons. They are highly-specialized formation weapons and extremely effective at poking straight forward over a long distance. That is their only function, so that should be reflected with great combo times, great reach and great damage with no x-axis mobility. Possibly slightly lower speed as well, but I’d rather it actually take a moment to properly couch it after sprinting, since that would also match with how the weapon is wielded.

    Torn Banner just has to get a Rome: Total War game and zoom right in on a Macedonian phalanx or similar unit to get the animation ideas and general sense of the weapon’s usage they can translate to first-person.



  • @CRUSHED:

    The spear combos are really really broken.

    It’s basically Chivalry: Medieval Warfare release combo feints

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVpVKMB1rE

    When someone with a spear misses he can just combo and flinch you most of the time when you try to go in for the attack after his miss.

    Spears are already strong as hell in CMW, with the introduction of combos on them they just removed their last weakness. If they stay i will predict a massive use of spears in the comp scene, already saw that yesterday, spears + pirates everywhere.

    lol tell me things i don’t know man hahhaa, i hope they leave hte combo spears in there because i basically just lmb spammed all of yesterday, i “skillfully” lmb spammed…all ya need is a little footwork, combo spear thrust, feint every now and then, and people just die.

    or you can run through crowds with combo’s, because what is flinch?



  • The storm of angry users that will be furious over the use of gunpowder is going to break the forums.

    Brace your selves lads!


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