Government shutdown



  • Bit surprised no one is talking about it here, it’s fairly critical news is it not? I’m probably more than just anxious, this is incredibly serious. Not just in this shutdown (which isn’t really a shutdown) but in the event of a default… that’d be disastrous. Even if they raise the debt ceiling and pile on more debt (google what 17 trillion dollars looks like for some perspective) I don’t think that can sustain us forever.

    QE will have to continue indefinitely. If they even slightly taper, interest rates will rise and we’ll have to go even deeper into debt to pay the interest on our debt. I’m not sure I follow that logic there. It’s the equivalent of someone with $25,000 annual salary with $100,000 in debt, going to the bank and asking for a higher limit so they can borrow more money to pay ever increasing interest on the debt they already have. Am I crazy or is that absurd to anyone else?

    Yes they have the Federal reserve which could print more money and lend it to the government at next to no interest, but that causes inflation, just another tax. None of this to me seems remotely sustainable, it’s merely delaying an inevitable bubble burst, and a really large one at that. The only solution I can see is to decrease spending by substantial amounts, far more than are being proposed, to at least balance the budget. Even more would be necessary if we wanted to entertain the idea of paying back the debt we’ve already accumulated.



  • You mean this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym9AhMNcP0

    Fortunately the chinese are very good at saving money so they can keep on lending it to the USA while they blow it on a party.



  • What exactly happened in USA? care to explain this whole shutdown and what the hell it means?

    (im from EU and never watch the news ;) )


  • Mod

    They have no monies left for basic services which they are shutting down afaik.
    This mean stuff like government landmarks, parks and the people employed there for various tasks, or health or traffic department like the bodies which inspect import of medicine or food…

    Basically the ‘less immediate governmental services’ are being shut down because they can’t afford paying them. Which isn’t as catastrophic as people seem to think- except that if it continues to deteriorate it would be more crucial services like maybe the USA’s homeland security office or some of the FBI’s specific departments… pretty sure this kind of thing happened before in the USA during the 1920-40s ??? I don’t live in the USA so my grasp of their history isn’t firm.

    Happens when you have a liberal democracy where your president has the status of a king rather than a public servant :P



  • Thanks Obama.



  • @User:

    Happens when you have a liberal democracy where your president has the status of a king rather than a public servant :P

    I almost made anti-Semite comment.


  • Mod

    From conversing with Radiant I learnt that the US president could not be evicted from their office or trialed by the people’s calling and has in their disposal the military power of the homeland security office which is there to protect his well being… an office which according to Radiant has purchased a set platoon of military tanks and i don’t remember how much ammunition to make themselves a small privately owned army.

    As a person who lives in a social democracy I often find many flaws in this lack of socialism in the USA (which is just basic for a person like me) one of them being that your president is often not exactly a public servant as much as they are your king… so to speak- I mean in the end result you can or cannot vote… but when you do you only have two choices… right? Last I heard there were only two parties in the USA… which in my opinion is bad because it generalizes the various political views people have and reduces them down. This makes it so you can’t really decide who would be president… you can only pick from two candidates who were elected by the ruling members of these two parties. It also makes it out that your political system is designed for idiots. - Why let them worry about choices? And making up their own mind about the issues that they think are relevant? - Give them an either yes or no answer because that is just how much they can encompass.

    Here in Israel the educational system has termed educational/school tests by types… you have your question test- in which you are asked a question and are required to give it your own answer… and there is an american test- where you are given a question, but also answers. and you must pick one of these answers. And while I understand that Social Democracy might not be for everyone- I just don’t see the freedom in being told what the answer is or isn’t and given a choice between black or white. That sort of cancels the basic freedom of making up my mind.

    @Darenger:

    I almost made anti-Semite comment.

    But if you feel like making an insult about Semites just to defend this weird way of living feel free to. I don’t really know what good it would be doing. It certainly wont be the first time someone made it in history, lol!

    Oh and also, Semite religions are Bahism. Judaism, Islam and Christianity. In case you were not aware.



  • @Darenger:

    @User:

    Happens when you have a liberal democracy where your president has the status of a king rather than a public servant :P

    I almost made anti-Semite comment.

    Typical German.



  • User, technically the President can be impeached; but it’s rarely ever done in the USA. Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson are the only two presidents who’ve been impeached.

    You would think ignoring the Constitution would be an impeachable offense but, you’d be wrong. It’s not specific to Obama. Bush Jr. ignored the constitution by not going through congress to declare war. These politicians think they can pass legislation that defies the constitution, and somehow that overrides it. Nope. You have to amend the constitution, not override it.

    I doubt most US citizens even know the bill of rights. People who don’t know where Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc… were wanted us to invade them anyways for reasons they don’t even know besides “terrorists”. Politics is ruled by the majority who are ignorant and / or don’t care. It’s a democracy, not a Republic. That is a serious problem.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/ … versation/

    1.6 billion rounds, with a B, to be purchased in the next 4-5 years by the DHS, The Department of Homeland Security.

    Also, they’re buying up an undisclosed number of heavily armored trucks, very close to what you’d call a tank or heavily armored military transport vehicle (with a .50 Cal turret on top which even the military has restrictions on).

    http://modernsurvivalblog.com/governmen … t-sweeper/

    Now it very well could be that this is just to burn excess money from their budget, because God knows they wouldn’t want to save anything. Spend it all, get the most toys you can. Or maybe something else is going on. I don’t dawn my tinfoil hat often, but this makes me uneasy.



  • Like many things that are important, they get ignored because Honey Boo Boo is on. While USER has ignorant concepts about the US, most citizens do too. It was never designed to be socialistic in any way. The constitution is the only document that gives the individual more power than the government and limits the government by telling it what it cannot do with a series of rights that are inalienable and endowed by the creator, not a government. This is the only society on the planet that once believed that the individual has the responsibility for themselves with all the freedoms to do and say as you please as long as it doesn’t infringe upon another’s rights. It promised an equal opportunity for all to succeed or fail based on their own merits and but not equality. Equality is a fools errand which forces a government to steal from those that earn and succeed and give it to those that do not.

    Sadly the dumbing down of America is a complete success. The citizens are now dumb and ever increasingly dependent upon the government while sacrificing freedom and rights for a false sense of security. Sadly these idiots have figured out that they can vote themselves free benefits not realizing where they come from.

    The system is broken because of about 60+ years of liberal legislation and corruption without being held accountable. How do you expect the people who created the problems to fix them?



  • It’s all the liberals fault? Talk about dumbing down …
    I liked this forum better when it was about video games.



  • @BillDoor:

    I liked this forum better when it was about video games.

    We keep all the intelligent people in the off topic section.

    The other areas are about video games but traversing into said areas may cause side affects such as attacks from close minded individuals who have nothing better to do with their time but act as if the slightest inconvenience is the greatest injustice in their life.



  • @BillDoor:

    It’s all the liberals fault? Talk about dumbing down …
    I liked this forum better when it was about video games.

    no, the corruption and non accountability was directed at the republicans and their lack of ability to uphold what they claim they stand for only to turn around and go spend happy and war mongering. But I will stand by the liberal legislation being some of the biggest failures that keep people poor and dependent staring with W. Wilson and the creation of the Fed, on down.



  • A lot of programs that are designed to help the poor at first glance such as food stamps, subsidized housing, unemployment, disability, even social security; they do the opposite over the long term. This is because of government inefficiency and downright corruption (social security fund was raided by the government).

    Recall that cliche but oh so true saying, give a man a fish and he eats for a night, teach him to fish and he eats for life. It applies quite accurately here too. Yet, it’s even worse here. It’s not like we throw people one fish and say that’s it. That would be cruel. Better yet, the government shouldn’t be involved at all. The notion that people would be starving in the streets without government involvement is silly. Without government, people will be more generous and there will be more jobs. Friends, family and charities are more than enough of a substitute, and better yet… it’s harder to take advantage of them. At least there’s a face to who you’d be stealing from (if that was your goal).

    It seems like the bigger the government becomes, the easier it is to grab a slice of it for yourself. It’s immoral, because that slice is from someone else’s labor. Whenever you’re in a position where you need help, think about that before you go to the government. That money isn’t yours. You aren’t entitled to it. It is someone else’s, and it was taken from them by force.

    To be clear, I’m definitely not an anarchist, more of a libertarian I’d say. I think some government is necessary, but especially at the Federal level (and some states… looking at you California) are going way overboard. What do I think the federal government should be doing?

    Maintaining an active defensive military. No wars or alliances, just open trade.

    Operating supreme courts to deal with potential issues that the state and local courts cannot and setting a precedent for the legaility of actions. Defending LIBERTY and upholding the Constitution that seems to be ignored these days.

    Border patrol (this could be state run).

    That’s it, pretty much. End the Federal reserve too. It’s not even Federal, technically. It’s always amazed me that people believe a few men in suits in some private room can accurately decide what the correct numbers for the entire economy are. A better idea is to let it run itself. The “market” is just each of us in a small way. It’s not some foreign monster. We are the market, and for the most part we can handle and take care of ourselves.

    I know a lot of people aren’t as extreme as me, but I think we’re at a point where the majority of people at least accept that our current level of spending is simply too high. It shouldn’t be too difficult to get the American people in accord that we should at the very least balance our budget. 17 trillion is a lot in debt, but if we negate the deficit, at least it’s manageable (over a very long period of time but still manageable).



  • @The:

    A lot of programs that are designed to help the poor at first glance such as food stamps, subsidized housing, unemployment…… I know a lot of people aren’t as extreme as me, but I think we’re at a point where the majority of people at least accept that our current level of spending is simply too high. It shouldn’t be too difficult to get the American people in accord that we should at the very least balance our budget. 17 trillion is a lot in debt, but if we negate the deficit, at least it’s manageable (over a very long period of time but still manageable).

    Well stated and a man after my own heart. I do disagree with you about the states running the borders. That puts the burden of federal responsibility onto the states. It is one of the real responsibilities of a federal government that if the government as a whole was much much smaller would be an easy and affordable job.



  • @The:

    The notion that people would be starving in the streets without government involvement is silly. Without government, people will be more generous and there will be more jobs. Friends, family and charities are more than enough of a substitute, and better yet… it’s harder to take advantage of them.

    I’m quite a bit older than most of the people on these forums. But I think even a young person would see how wrong this statement is. What about people who have no family? People without rich friends? People not cute enough or lucky enough to be picked for charitable handouts?

    I could refer you to the Black Friday and the Great Depression as examples of how an unregulated laissez-faire approach to the markets left millions destitute, homeless, friendless and hopeless. In fact, that’s why Social Security and the Fed were started - to prevent unscrupulous market manipulators from destroying the life savings of Americans. Of course, 70 years of re-re-regulations have distorted that to the point that the market manipulators were able to write the laws that led to our current recession, destroying the life savings of millions and leaving us all destitute, but that’s ok because at least the banks got bailed out.

    You have to be able to see outside the tunnel that your own life surrounds you with.



  • @User:

    @Darenger:

    I almost made anti-Semite comment.

    But if you feel like making an insult about Semites just to defend this weird way of living feel free to. I don’t really know what good it would be doing. It certainly wont be the first time someone made it in history, lol!

    Oh and also, Semite religions are Bahism. Judaism, Islam and Christianity. In case you were not aware.

    Wouldn’t have tried to defend the US, I dislike the US quite a bit.
    Also I’m not a member of any religion.



  • @Darenger:

    Wouldn’t have tried to defend the US, I dislike the US quite a bit.
    Also I’m not a member of any religion.

    Shut up you Nazi German, no one loves you.

    (jkjk Daranger you’re like one of my favorite people I was just kidding don’t hurt me)



  • @BillDoor:

    @The:

    The notion that people would be starving in the streets without government involvement is silly. Without government, people will be more generous and there will be more jobs. Friends, family and charities are more than enough of a substitute, and better yet… it’s harder to take advantage of them.

    I’m quite a bit older than most of the people on these forums. But I think even a young person would see how wrong this statement is. What about people who have no family? People without rich friends? People not cute enough or lucky enough to be picked for charitable handouts?

    I could refer you to the Black Friday and the Great Depression as examples of how an unregulated laissez-faire approach to the markets left millions destitute, homeless, friendless and hopeless. In fact, that’s why Social Security and the Fed were started - to prevent unscrupulous market manipulators from destroying the life savings of Americans. Of course, 70 years of re-re-regulations have distorted that to the point that the market manipulators were able to write the laws that led to our current recession, destroying the life savings of millions and leaving us all destitute, but that’s ok because at least the banks got bailed out.

    You have to be able to see outside the tunnel that your own life surrounds you with.

    I am an old bastard too. While SS and the Fed were created to prevent much of what happened during the depression, both of them are very problematic that I could write a book about each. But for starters, SS is simply a ponzie scheme, it always has been and it will fail big time, specially if the dollar collapses because far too many people are dependent upon it. The FED has basically screwed us pretty much forever now that QE-invinity is soon to be established. The truth is that we were coming out of the depression naturally once the correction was made. IT was a very hard lesson but the more government took power the less the people had.

    I think the main point is that we no longer teach independent, critical thinking, and how to live within your means. Now we simply indoctrinate, teach self esteem and how to be dependent upon mother government.

    People during the depression were starving even with government and that was because of timing of the dust bowl at the same time having devastating effects upon crops across the nation. Government even now didn’t save peoples savings during the housing bubble/recession, in fact they are directly responsible for it. There are major problems with the FED as well and how they have manipulated the economy are directly responsible for much of the creation of the debt by printing more and more money. But I digress…



  • Social Security is certainly not a ponzie scheme. It’s been robbed by criminals congress many times, but it can remain solvent as long as there is an America. You may choose to blame SS for all the sins in the world - but that statement is absolutely false.

    I’d disagree in the opinion that the ‘government’ is responsible for people not living within their means. I’m pretty sure you mean ‘banks’, ‘credit card companies’ and ‘irresponsible parenting’.

    Regardless, why argue? It’s political masturbation - mostly opinions, few facts and none of it true because both sides and the middle lie to you.


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