Reasons why C:MW is no competitive game (aka why I quit)



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    neither shields nor common sense will protect you from arrows… how many people with shields constantly run with it up the entire time? Then when someone comes to fight you, just keep it up and just block? or are you going to attack? When you attack, is your right side protected, is your back? Is your front any longer protected?

    shields = useless against archers, unless there’s only 1.

    your little sentiment there is under the assumption there’s only 1 archer… which there is never. Try blocking your front back and both sides at the same time. I haven’t figured out how to do that but post a video if you figure it out.

    you don’t seem to be an archer player from your explanation, so unfortunately if you can’t kill an archer with a shield, you deserve to die to the archer xD

    When fighting you should always keep your shield to the side archers are firing from, meaning a good player will observe the area while they are fighting and account for the archer and go in for the hits when that archer has released their shot.

    I’ve done it many times on the other side, most shield users forget about us, shield users in general are smarter than the average player because they ACTUALLY know archers are in the server lol

    a skilled archer will observe a fight and either move to the side the shield is not or wait for them to go for the attack, thus hitting them when their shield moves.

    as said, common sense > archers

    skilled play > archers

    Also lemonater shields are extremely bugged when it comes to hit detection, as i’ve said a few times already, you can shoot someone in the shield and it will hit them, you can shoot them in the chest with their shield on their back but it will hit the shield.

    Most archers are shit yes, just like most melee are which is why it’s so easy for archers to kill idiots lol.

    who was calling OP? I said shields are useless, if you are directing it at me.

    Torn Banner should take a page from Marvel Heroes book, their staff atleast reply with important info, all these ones do are hired and we never see them lol



  • thanks for your brilliant insight… in all my almost 1900 hours playing, i have no idea how to use a shield

    i’ve NEVER played archer so i have NO IDEA how they think or what they go for… plz explain to me archer skillz

    i’ll get a few of my buddies to go on one team and all play archer, you run at us with a shield and see how it works out for you.

    steam name : clay

    then we can see how good your shield is vs. archers.



  • I shoot shield knights in the foot and head all the time and I’m a shitty archer.



  • @dudeface:

    I shoot shield knights in the foot and head all the time and I’m a shitty archer.

    archer strategy

    1.) go defending team, preferably 32 man server

    2.) shoot arrows at helpless victims from behind melee

    3.) shortsword poke if necessary + retreat

    4.) profit

    i played 3-4 maps with about 2 friends on teamspeak today, all went shortbow bodkins.

    Stoneshill - we got in there for the king objective late into the round, king did not take one hit or have to parry once, bows took care of everything, or hit them hard enough to be one smack away.

    Darkforest- attacking team had no chance getting past 1st objective, they didn’t even get by the bridge. Had about 20 kills or so and about 18 assist, easy.

    Battlegrounds - surprisingly we weren’t being bitches and attacked as archer, result: win pushing the cart with over 8 minutes left on the clock, kept them pinned in spawn with shortbow arrow fire.

    Hillside - attacked with shortbows again, got the first objective in 2 tries, then the rest of the objectives fell at our arrows feet.

    point is: yeah i can be lame and shoot arrows at people, it’s not hard to arch… i’m sorry to burst your bubble but it’s not that hard to shoot at things.



  • I actually prefer to play on the attacking team. I go light xbow, so I basically join the front lines.

    It’s fun to melee as an archer too. Sabre ftw.



  • @dudeface:

    I actually prefer to play on the attacking team. I go light xbow, so I basically join the front lines.

    you and practically no one else.

    i don’t mind playing archer here and there, why is it fun? because you shoot at things.

    i really just hate the fact that the game has seriously turned Team objective, my favorite mode into archer warfare… certain maps seriously just stack them on defense and there’s like nothing you can do.

    My gold helmet certainly doesn’t help with archers either, it’s like a shiny “I’M OVER HERE SHOOT ME” target. That’s probably my issue, all dis GOOOOOLD.

    I’ll never remove it!



  • When you are on teams peak or something with freinds you are unstoppable with any loadout.

    And shortbow is the trollbow. I use it when I feel particulary mean. Its not how fast you kill people as an archer that makes people mad oh no. Its how many times you hit them first before you kill them. Even if you don’t kill the they run and hide. They become as useless as they would be if they were dead.

    Though how many times do you see 3 archers on the cart with shortbows. Man if everyone did that then yes that team would win all the time as you proved.

    No most of them are dipshits shooting from spawn. I always say aggressive archers will win as you just proved.

    The only way to really stop you is lots of javs or good broadhead warbow users. Pretty much other archers.

    Also people massively under estimate the power of smoke pots. Throw them at an archer and its the best shield ever. Though no ones ever smoked me. I’ve smoke plenty of other archers and they have to move. They hav to stop shooting you for about 3 seconds which is plenty of time for you to do something. You guys pushing the the cart and you would have to either move away or shot somewhere else being blinded to on direction meaning they could move up.

    Also…
    “2.) shoot arrows at helpless victims from behind melee”

    No no no. You go around or in line with your melee friends. More chance to land a hit and less chance of shooting your team.



  • Well, I’m one of the people that still has a lot of fun playing CMW and I’m really looking forward to DW. As I’ve said many times before, I enjoyed pre-July patch more, but regardless I still have fun now. If I enjoy this game still, I’m not going to stop playing it. The day I quit is when it’s no longer fun for me (or if there’s no one left to play with). For a lot of people that day came a long time ago. If the ship’s goin down, then I’m goin with it because I love this ship :D

    Sure, I believe Chivalry still has problems. Yes, TBS could have done much more to attract a competitive scene. But I can’t hide the fact I’m still enjoying the game. I still have a lot of fun messing around in pubs and getting together in scrims to face even stiffer competition.



  • i know all of this, the point i was making with the 1,2,3 of archer is that’s what shit kids in pubs do… but it works out fine on defense.

    do i do the same tactics, no i’m not a fucking noob.

    do i believe that’s the way you should play? no cause i’m not a fucking noob.

    do archers dictate every TO map? yes they do.

    and smokepots? that doesn’t stop archers, smokepots = firing squad into the smoke… because who cares about teammates amirite!?



  • It was never competitive.



  • @Sidewinder:

    I used to defend TBS on multiple fronts too, but that was when they actually deserved it

    +1



  • From a former Balance Council member who left for a variety of reasons, I have to say that it looks like they’ve matured as a company and are beginning to listen to feedback more. My guess is that they realized some of their mistakes.

    While I’m not sure how I feel about DW and whether that was the proper route to take, I am cautiously optimistic about the future.



  • [quote="Falc"4.Archery
    I never had a problem with Archers in AoC. But I do in C:MW. In AoC the damage was fine. Crossbows killed the heaviest class with 2 (body)shots, Bows with 3. But in C:MW Archery got MUCH more damage without any other drawbacks.

    Wat?

    Heavy Xbow vs knight in C:MW – 2 body shots… Aoc also 2 body shots (assuming from what you are saying). Check.

    Bows with 3 on both? Check. Unless bodkin warbow, but most still use broadhead.

    I’m confused here.



  • This is a great post. I mostly agree with the OP. Actually reading every page I would say that again I agree with Clayton-Bigsby, Warsaw, and compeletely disagree with Lemon and Saraski, go figure. I have two main points I would like to address. One is in conjunction to the OP and the other is a review about TB.

    ONE: Addressing the original post.
    I mostly agree with every issue, well thought out and stated. My main difference is with the archers. You are correct that in Age of Chivalry, arching was done correctly and very well balanced for team play. It was never really a 1v1 class unless you were very skilled and there were quite a few very skilled archers and you actually respected archer kills even ranged ones.

    Part of the problem with archers is simply the aiming mechanism and 3rd person. In AOC there was not 3rd person this simplified and made a level playing field (more on that later). What made arching so great in AOC was the aiming, literally how you aim in real life where you use the tip of the arrow and the bow itself as the crosshair was used in the game. It forced skill and timing because the bow would obscure your target at times specially for a ranged shot, even your arm would get in the way. Having an actual floating crosshair makes to way easier, even more so in 3rd person with a high FOV (more on that as well).

    I will concede to the archer’s range kill abilities, too powerful, too easy with a lower skill ceiling for someone with a great PC. Noob archers have always been a problem, not much you can do about it but give it a high skill ceiling forcing many to give up and move to other classes or actually get the skills.

    In addition, archers melee and defense is way too powerful. There is not a single skilled archer that is really afraid of any class in melee because they can kill anyone in melee. High skilled archers can take on 3v1 and win with no problem. I have seen it time and time again.

    The fix would be to move the targeting back to what it was in AOC, no crosshair, fix some of the archer 1 hit at range, and to make any successful parry take damage from any and all heavy weapons making archer melee an absolute last resort and forcing a higher skill ceiling. You could also add a moving stability so that when you first pull the bow back has the best most accurate shooting and then the longer you hold it, the more the crosshair will move around in a circle. But the class needs to be ranged not melee centric. Everyone knows archers go very quickly to melee, unless they suck.

    TWO: Impressions of TB till now.
    Some of us have been supporting these guys since 2005, hosting servers, creating clans, developing a community and I have seen the same mistakes repeated over and over again. While I love what they have done, better than most devs, the frustration of seeing tactics get nerfed with mechanics, balance changes that fail, shit tons of bugs, Horribly or no optimization, game breaking patches and pandering to the lowest common denominator while ignoring the veterans is beyond heart breaking.

    Several crucial mistakes in the development, 3rd person, FOV, and crosshairs. 3rd person and FOV extremes are far from a level playing field and should have never been allowed in the first place. “But then there would be a lot of people that would not have bought the game” Well that is just speculation and if the game is awesome, has a level playing field, players will buy it. 3rd person would not even be an issue if it was never allowed, hell it is still heatly debated. The same is true with limiting FOV to a much smaller range if not allowed at all. Again fewer exploits.

    Crosshairs were argued about during the development with in the community and most all AOC veterans agreed that they should not exist for many reasons. Learning each weapons strike locations, each being slightly different made AOC have a high skill ceiling across all classes. Crosshairs dumb down the game. The chase code is nice but now you are too busy watching a dot instead of the rest of the game.

    Other issues involve how they balance. It is always an over/under, always going too far. Nerfs should be slow and minimal, same with buffs. Never change a game mechanic to nerf a tactic - their biggest mistake. But players will usually come up with tactics to over come OP balance issues unless they are truly OP and even then the nerf should be minimal because others get buffs.

    Optimize Optimize Optimize! God you would think that after all the Opt problems with AOC that Chiv would be one of the highest priorities. In retrospect I almost wish they would have not gone with the UDK engine, specially since most of the devs really had no clue about it when they started. If they would have learned how to optimize the HL2 engine, they could have a much better game with lots of interaction with the environment and far easier administration and level building. But hey, UDK is pretty! I am hopeful that they will hire a good netcoder along with level designers that know how to optimise maps that are actually fun to play with no worries of getting stuck on something or have an environmental object actually work correctly when press a button, ONCE. Seriously, how can War Thunder have massive beautiful maps with many players and virtually no video lag and Chiv cannot even do 24+ player maps that dont lag?

    Lastly no love for vets and server hosts. Almost a year without an easy admin system or remote version. This is also a huge game killer let alone competitive game play. Ugh those first tourneys where an admin hell.

    Finally, they just didn’t learn from the mistakes in AOC, they tried to please everyone, all the time. The game itself is a very nitch market genera wise. KISS - keep it simple stupid should have been a poster on the walls. Too much, wouldn’t it be cool if… Hell they already had some of the best game maps in AOC, how hard would it have been to convert them over to UDK? That would have saved them a ton of work and help them learn UDK in the process in a much shorter time. Then create other maps. The number of maps would be double if they would have done that. That is a no brainer.

    Dont get me wrong here, this is not a bitch fest but a love fest and a cry for proper development and fixes.



  • With the warbow i usually use broadheads. Though you sea lot of rank 30 warbow users with bodkins.

    Warbow broad can 3 hit knight if you get 3 consecutive chest hits. Bodkins you can get away with a leg hit. And a bodkin headshot on a knight will mean a fly could kill him after that.

    Short bow and longbow is where you will see the difference in hit in the chest with a knight and vanguard.



  • @MUSASHI:

    It was never competitive.

    True. Not so much a matter of opinion, but a matter of fact. Anyways, I still hoped the game would become competitive, but that possibility partially rested on aspects beyond the communities control ( I don’t think I need to explain what those are). However, belonging to a clan is still a lot of fun; it gives players the opportunity to face stiffer competition and work more as a team. :D



  • While being competive might be a fun thing to me. Why does a game need to be competitve to be fun? Competitive to me means distilling every action into its most basic form to create balance. Why is this more fun than the mechanics we have? Look at all the “competitive games” that exist. If you want 3 or so builds to be fun so be it.



  • @Falc:

    … -you said you listen to your community. Then why was cftp removed if 70% of the players(according to 2 polls) never wanted it removed and 100% of the balance council told you not to remove it?..

    I was under the impression the balance council is why the parry mechanic was changed.
    Also I agree with a-lot of the things you stated being factors that could be a-lot better. Especially the archer max vs knight max on weapons.

    Other than that- Didn’t really ever play with you but well wishes.
    Have fun where ever you’re going :)
    Cheers.



  • I don’t know for sure, but I believe cftp was removed to make the game easier for new players.



  • retsnon I agree that the skill curve is easily done, hell I was being bitched for complaining about shields ingame and someone said “it’s because of your 5:13 ratio”, within 30 seconds i was 11:13 with warbow and broadheads.

    Archery in simple terms is this:

    longbow to unlock shortbow and warbow

    shortbow for close range + with friends using it too / defending you

    Warbow for longer range and taking out archers and slower targets.

    Bodkin or Broadhead, depends on what weapon you are using, I now only use Broadhead arrows with warbow and bodin with shortbow,

    primarily because they 1 shot archers, 1-2 maa, vanguard, 2 knights if aimed correctly.

    comapred to the 2 archers, 2 maa, 2 vaa, 2 knights lol.

    Xbow is a case of light isn’t at all useful,

    normal xbow is the best by far for its damage and its reload time, 1 second faster than the heavy, for 6 damage less (headshot damage that is mainly which will always kill anyhow)

    heavy xbow as stated above, it’s 1s slower than the normal and for 6 damage more than the xbow, a good archer wont ever need to use this.

    Aiming for xbow is as simple as a point and click mechanic, not much skill involved, but for bows, you’ve got to adjust still for long range but not much for short range, only aim just above them.

    Javelineer’s are a whole different story till their shields are fixed / given the option not to use 1 and just use the javelin to parry etc (doubt that will happen)

    Normal are by far better than the rest due to the reach, damage an ammo, (also you don’t get your jav back on a headshot needs fix !)

    light i hardly used due to its low damage,

    heavy i use currently but mainly just to kill knights without shields, purely because i like to just take the jav out of them and throw it in them again, other than that i don’t really see much use than making sure you 1 shot an archer chest & up.

    But the big question i have retsnom is, whats your view on the melee damages? specifically slash? and were you high when you wrote that its a viable tactic to jump spin hit? like Lord Blueberry did in AoC with a 2h sword (which was ganna be fixed before game updated ceased) lol.


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